[NOTE: This transcript has not undergone a final proofreading and may contain
errors. It is being provided in draft form to enhance access to the video recording. As soon as possible, it will be replaced with a final, corrected transcript and will be synced to the video to provide clickable timecodes.]Helen Ideno: 00:00 I'm Helen Ideno and I live in Park Ridge, Illinois.
Anna Takada: 00:04 And uh, where, where were you born?
HI: 00:07 I was born in Torrance, California, October 3rd, 1941.
AT: 00:16 And where, where is, is Torrance?
HI: 00:18 Outside of Los Angeles.
AT: 00:21 And so when, um, when the war broke out, where was your family sent?
HI: 00:29 Uh, where were we living?
AT: 00:31 Sent.
HI: 00:32 Oh, sent? Well after, uh, when they got the notice we, they first went
to, we all went to Santa Anita Racetrack and of course, you know, you could only take what you could carry. My mother always said she carried me and my baby clothes and my father carried my older brother, he was a year older, and his baby clothes.AT: 00:56 Was it just the two of you?
HI: 00:58 The two children, yes. And my father drove a truck there. While he was
an auto mechanic, he had his own gas station and auto repair shop. My mother was, uh, became the bookkeeper after she graduated from high school. That's where they met and married and married later, 1939. Umm ... my father always said that when they first went to the racetrack, they didn't even bother cleaning out the manure from the stables. So my uncle and my father helped clean out the stables and it was one family per stable. And we stayed there six months until the barracks were built in Colorado. And so then after six months we took the train to Colorado. My understanding is that the shades had to be down. And you couldn't look out. Um ... my brother was born in Amache in 1943, um, my mother says that this thing she remembers most is standing lines everywhere you went, you stand in lines, to latrine, to the laundry, to the meals. I was a baby. I don't really remember anything. I only know stories. There is a picture of me playing with a little broken toy that somebody must've donated. Um, my father being an auto mechanic was able to get a job driving a truck in camp and he had a cousin in Colorado who was a farmer. So he was able to get a job with his cousin. So he had a job and a place to stay. So he stayed there for a year and then he was free to go. He drove to Chicago to find a job and a place to stay and he said, never go let your gas tank go less than half a tank. Because as he was driving there, he never knew if, if the service station would give him gas or not, would serve him. Some would, some wouldn't. So he found a place to stay on the West Side of Chicago, which is where we lived.AT: 04:16 Where on the West Side?
HI: 04:22 California and Van Buren. I went to elementary school. I was the only
Japanese, well except for my uncle who also um, came to the West Side to live, uh, in fact, he stayed with mom for awhile. He was five years older than me, so mom took care of my uncle for awhile. Um, I, my older brother also, um, uh, well we were the only family in this whole school, Calhoun School. My uncle got beat up a lot. Oh, we were family of four children by now. My, my have a younger sister. Sharon was born in Granada just in 1944. So she was laid out just, um, she was born just after my mother was got out of the camp. Um ... my earliest memory really is of Chicago sitting in the yard making mud pies.AT: 05:41 Outside of your home?
HI: 05:41 Outside in Chicago, in the yard. I didn't really feel that, uh, people
were prejudiced against us. I know there were a lot of Italians and Germans living in the same neighborhood and everyone was friendly to me. So I didn't have a problem with that. My older brother - my mother says, we all spoke Japanese until I was five years old. My older brother was, was uh, a, taken to a, what is it to, uh, the speech class. Had to take speech class and my mother felt that was so disgraceful that from that point on we just spoke English. So I know no Japanese at all.AT: 06:43 And at what point - so you were very young and um,
HI: 06:48 Yes.
AT: 06:48 In camps. So at what point did you learn about what your family had experienced?
HI: 06:58 Uh, my parents never talked about it. I mean my Aunt Jessie Morisato,
would talk to me about it. And I, when I remember in high school - I went to Marshall High School - I would look in the history book looking for some information on it and there was nothing, nothing at all in the history books. Now my mother was valedictorian of her class and I was Valedictorian in my class and I wrote a speech which the principal had to vet and I wrote about going to camp and she insisted that all of it had to be taken out. I could not give that speech. Um, after that I went to, um, maybe pier, first two years at Navy Pier, and then, a year and half downstate where I got my elementary education certificate. Then I taught at um, Elmwood Park, no, Susan taught at Elmwood Park, I have forgotten now. Anyway, then I taught at Bellwood, in Bellwood and then came to Chicago to teach because I didn't like the drive.AT: 08:37 Um, so can you, uh, can you describe what, what it was like growing
up, uh, on the West Side of Chicago?HI: 08:51 As I said, I was, I was fine. I had friends. I think my uncle, as I
said, my uncle had really harder time.AT: 09:04 Were you aware that you were Japanese or that?
HI: 09:08 Yes. You know, I was, it wasn't until I was eight years old did I
realize my name was not Tatty Mary, that's what they all said. Tatty Mary, instead of Tademaru. So they always mispronounced the name and I must've felt guilt because I remember being very, very, very shy and the gym teacher always coming to me and telling me to sit up straight.AT: 09:37 And your friends, um, did you uh, did you know other Japanese Americans?
HI: 09:43 No, no. None at all except when we would have a cousin or something
come and visit. In fact, that's one reason I started to join the uh, Midwest Buddhist temple. I knew we were members, but we'd never gone because my father worked very hard and Sundays, he's working. So I started going on my own, on the bus to the Midwest Buddhist temple and there I met Japanese people.AT: 10:19 How long was that commute?
HI: 10:21 I was 15. Oh, it was, we just take the bus to Ogden avenue and Ogden
Ave to North Avenue.AT: 10:33 And that was when you were a teenager?
HI: 10:35 15.
AT: 10:39 Um, did you do any extracurriculars or any activities outside of school?
HI: 10:45 I went to the art institute once a week since I was 10. They didn't
have things for girls. There was, there was no girls team of any kind. I remember when I was 10 years old, I wanted to learn to swim because I felt that was important. My mother took me to the YWCA and obviously they didn't want me in because they said I had athlete's feet, which I did. But it was a, a sign. I remember taking ballet lessons with a friend's mother.AT: 11:33 And your siblings, did they do anything?
HI: 11:39 My older brother, my younger brother, were allowed to go to the park.
They had bikes. They were free to do whatever they wished. They could play wherever. Whereas I was restricted to the home.AT: 11:54 And your younger sister?
HI: 11:58 Wherever I went, I did take my younger sister with me. So if I was
invited to birthday party, younger sister came along.AT: 12:06 And what are the, what are their names of your siblings?
HI: 12:12 Ah, my older brother was Roy. He was a year older. Uh, my younger
brother, Eugene, was born in 1943 he was a year and a half younger. And my sister was born in 1944. Karen.AT: 12:31 And did you, did you ever talk about um, the incarceration with your
siblings at all? I know everyone was children.HI: 12:46 Very little. Yes. I mean, of course they're interested as I am in the
history of it. Never with my mother. She never wanted to talk about it or my father. Except this one time the, my mother was in a book for her Valedictorian speech from elementary school was published and the granddaughter of this published of this author wanted to remake it. So she would have, she had questions that my mother had to ask and answer. So one of the questions was, what is the happiest thing you remember from camp? My mother said nothing. No happy memories.AT: 13:38 And when, uh, the principal censored your speech,
HI: 13:47 Dr Lawley. Yes.
AT: 13:55 What, what was your response, how did you, how did you feel and how,
how did you handle that?HI: 14:05 I was very obedient. You know, this is 1958. You don't fight the authority.
AT: 14:18 Did you understand why?
HI: 14:20 Oh yes, yes, I understood the prejudice. She did not want to make
waves. She later became a superintendent. Yes. You know.AT: 14:39 So somehow talking about that would be controversial or?
HI: 14:43 She must've thought so.
AT: 14:49 And did you, that you know of, did your siblings have any kinds of
experiences like that in Chicago?HI: 14:56 No, no, but I doubt that they tried to talk about the camp.
AT: 15:17 And then, um, so you said when you were 15 years old you got involved
with the Midwest Buddhist temple,HI: 15:27 Uh huh
AT: 15:28 And that was the first time that you were spending time with other
Japanese Americans. Um, can you talk a little bit more about that experience of, of getting involved with?HI: 15:40 Oh, well I, I certainly enjoyed it uh. You know, all the different
activities, the Ginza, the Obon, and of course they had, as my husband mentioned, uh, almost weekend dances. So that was fun.AT: 16:00 And what was that like having gone through what, you know, your
childhood of not, um, being around other folks and families like yours to all of a sudden, um, you know, kind of being immersed in that community?HI: 16:19 Oh, I enjoyed it tremendously. Broadening.
AT: 16:25 Broadening?
HI: 16:25 It was broadening, yes!
AT: 16:25 In, in what way?
HI: 16:25 Besides, it was nice to - to do different things. In high school there
were two other, two other Japanese, I remember that now.AT: 16:44 And so then were your friends growing up, um, like what kind of ethnicities?
HI: 16:52 Oh, Caucasian, um, Jewish.
AT: 17:07 And was that, was identity ever like, uh, very present or understood?
Or did people not think about it or talk about it?HI: 17:18 What do you mean?
AT: 17:19 Like, um, like in, in your, in your friend circles, um.
HI: 17:29 You're asking did I feel Japanese? No, I just felt like American like
they were.AT: 17:35 Um, so Marshall High School that's on the South Side?
HI: 17:48 West Side.
AT: 17:49 The West Side. And then was it a big change going to college?
HI: 17:55 Oh yes. That's why I didn't want to go away. I stayed, I stayed home
for the first two years. I was only 16, so -AT: 18:02 You were 16 when you started so. Was that, was that typical to be so young?
HI: 18:10 Um, yes I, I, uh, I skipped a couple of grades. They didn't have
enrichment programs like they do now. So their way of, of coping with less intelligent was just push him up a grade.AT: 18:33 Did, and did you start off on a, on a track of education, um, like to
become a teacher?HI: 18:40 Oh yes. I always knew I wanted to be a teacher.
AT: 18:43 Do you know where that desire or passion came from?
HI: 18:46 First Grade.
AT: 18:51 What happened in first grade?
HI: 18:53 Oh, I love learning. I love my teacher.
AT: 18:55 Was - that was at Calhoun?
HI: 19:04 Uh hum
AT: 19:04 Do you remember your teacher's name?
HI: 19:06 Isn't that funny? No, I think she was Irish.
AT: 19:12 And, and so from school, what was your first, first teaching position?
Your first teaching position?HI: 19:27 Oh, at Bellwood elementary. Um, Bellwood, uh, Illinois. Um, I was a
fifth grade teacher.AT: 19:35 How long were you there?
HI: 19:39 I only, I only stayed there half a year because I didn't like to
drive. So I transferred to a school close or West Side school close by.AT: 19:50 And what has that been like teaching in Chicago over the years?
HI: 19:58 It was, you know, it was a lot easier when I first started teaching. I
remember I had 40 kids in my classroom. And you think that's horrible, right? But they were good kids and I had no trouble because you have their respect of the parents. All you have to say to a child who was misbehaving, "do you want me to call your parents?" Nope. Very different from today where parents don't seem to respect teachers.AT: 20:28 How would you say that it's changed over the years in your career?
HI: 20:34 Um, I would say that was the biggest thing when I first started.
Parents always back the teachers. Nowadays you get kids whose parents will say, my darling would never do that. They would take the kids words over the teachers.AT: 20:56 And which, which subjects would you teach?
HI: 21:02 I taught kindergarten for four years. I loved that. I taught third
grade. I will, well, I, I taught a lot of grades and then I became a teacher librarian. I stayed home with the children for 12 years. And then I got my masters in library science at what was then Rosary College.AT: 21:27 And for those different grades, does that mean you're teaching all of
the different subjects? So math, science?HI: 21:33 Oh yes, the elementary. Elementary, yes. It was always elementary. In
fact, the first time was I got to teach PE, which is probably my worst subject [laughing].AT: 21:46 Did you have a favorite subject to teach kids?
HI: 21:50 Oh, that's tough. I like all the subjects, but I like math a lot and I
like art a lot. Science a lot.AT: 22:02 Um, did you have flexibility in, in curriculum? So for, for example,
for, for history, were you able to teach about the internment?HI: 22:13 Oh yes, it's, that part is totally different now, of course, because
they teach that in eighth grade. It is a part of the curriculum, so that's good.AT: 22:24 So have you, have you, have you taught that subject?
HI: 22:26 I don't teach eighth grade.
AT: 22:29 Okay, um, so you, you never -
HI: 22:33 Nope, I'd given speeches for the eighth grade teacher.
AT: 22:38 As a part of the lesson?
HI: 22:39 As a part, as a part of the, the lesson, yes.
AT: 22:41 So was, what was that like for you?
HI: 22:47 Like this only, I was more composed then.
AT: 23:01 Did you - when you had children, were you sharing with them about your
family's experiences?HI: 23:08 Oh, we never had it. Um, when it would come up in that curriculum, I
think that's when we talked about it.AT: 23:22 Was that something like they would learn in school and then ask questions?
HI: 23:29 Umhum, or if there's something like this, we could take them to that.
We took our, all our grandchildren, just not all three of our grandchildren last week to see this exhibit.AT: 23:46 And why is that, um, why is that important to you to take them and
share with them?HI: 23:59 So that they understand our history and to make sure that this never
happens again.AT: 24:17 And I'm going to pose the same question to you that I did to your
husband. Um, if you, if you could leave, um, your children and your grandchildren, your family with some kind of message or legacy, what would you want to leave them on?HI: 24:42 I think my answer would be the same, but they should understand what
has happened in the past so that it won't happen again. I feel very fortunate. The most part I have not felt the prejudice, but I do remember when I taught third grade for the, in Chicago, my very first year, there was this one teacher. She was extremely mean to me. She was a first grade teacher. I never understood why until the end of the year. She said to me, she was sorry, but she had a son who died in World War II and that was her reason.AT: 25:43 There, is there anything else that you would want to, to add or, or
share? um -HI: 26:30 I remember when I was going to college, downstate, to
Urbana-Champaign. So often I got questions from other students. How long have you been in our country? I got that question an awful lot. And I would say all my life, my mother was born in California, my father was born in Hawai'i, so I'm third generation.AT: 27:21 And um, do you mind, actually before we wrap up, we talk a little bit
more about your, your parents and their stories?HI: 27:35 Uh hum.
AT: 27:35 Um, so just about where, where they were born and, and how they got
to, um, Torrance.HI: 27:45 Ah, um, I'm told that in 1896 on my father's, on my mother's side.
Your father, you're, nope, I've forgotten the grandfather, your father, my grandfather and his father came on the second boat out of Hiroshima, went through Seattle, down to California and, and worked on a farm there. Um, then in 1916 he was 10 years old at the time. In 1916 he went back to Hiroshima and picked up my grandma. He didn't trust picture brides and then they came to California, and farmed, uh, farmed there. Uh, on my father's side in 1896, uh, they went to Hawai'i and worked in the pineapple fields. When my father was born, he was in fact - well not born - when he was about five years old so. He went back to, he was sent back to Japan to be raised by his grandparents and then he came to United States, what, when he was about 18 years old or so? Learned a trade, bought his gas station and so forth.AT: 29:28 Did he have experience with, with that kind of work in Japan or did he
learn it new?HI: 29:36 He flew an airplane here. He was, he, I know he liked to fly
airplanes. Where did he learn?HI's Husband: 29:43 Japan!
HI: 29:44 He learned to, to do auto mechanic work in Japan? I don't know.
HI's Husband: 29:51 No, no, no
HI: 29:52 No, no, here? He don't know. He don't know.
AT: 29:53 And, where, where and how did your parents meet?
HI: 30:02 As she, uh, graduated from high school and went to work for him as his bookkeeper.
AT: 30:10 So that's they met that way
HI: 30:12 They met that way.
AT: 30:17 Um, and do you have um, relatives who are also in the states that in
the, um, you know, those earlier years that you know of, any aunts and uncles who came around the late 19th century?HI: 30:36 Um, any other relatives? No, grandma had six kids. She had a brother
who came in, I hear, from Mexico but then was sent back to Japan. But he had, I guess, stepped on a nail or something and died on the way back.AT: 31:04 And how most of what you know about your family's history is that just
from asking her? Have you done any research or -HI: 31:14 No, I have not done research. My brother does that.
AT: 31:20 It seems each family has a, and genealogist.
HI: 31:24 Umhum
AT: 31:30 And, um, have you, have you ever been to Japan to see who were ...
HI: 31:42 Oh, we've been to Japan, what, twice, uh, we happened to Hiroshima,
but we don't speak Japanese and I did not know where they lived. Well we have cousins apparently, we have four cousins who live still in Hiroshima. The last time we were in Japan, I tried to contact a cousin of mine, Hirofumi, and I learned that he had died and I didn't even know that. But if we ever go back we will try to contact them. My brother has visited them.AT: 32:26 And in your, in your adult life, um, how, how would you describe your,
your connection to your Japanese heritage?HI: 32:36 Well, I don't speak Japanese. I don't understand it hardly. Um, I
think it's because I don't, my parents didn't want me to. Um, but I do - my children all learn among. I have three girls. They all took Japanese dancing. We always went to Obon and the Ginza at the church.AT: 33:09 Are you still involved with MBT or still a member?
HI: 33:13 Still a member, yes. Less involvement. But I did work the Ginza last week.
AT: 33:20 Thank you. We're always grateful to have volunteers.
HI: 33:25 And we still dance in Obon, which I have been doing since I was 15.
AT: 33:31 And, and why has that been important for you to share with your children?
HI: 33:36 Oh, I always want them to keep their heritage, to remember. We still
celebrate, you know, new years cooking mochi all that, has to be the first bite.AT: 34:08 I think. I think that those are the questions I have for you unless
there's anything else you'd like to add?HI: 34:19 Yeah, just a lot harder than I thought.
AT: 34:23 Thank you so much for sharing and for taking the time.
