Matsushita, Fumiko (9/24/2017)

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Anna Takada: 00:00:00 This is an interview with Fumiko Matsushita, as part of Alphawood Gallery Chicago Nikkei oral history project. The oral history project is being conducted in line with the current exhibition. Then They Came for Me: Incarceration of Japanese Americans During World War II and the Demise of Civil Liberties. Today is September 24th, at, about 2:35 PM and we're recording at the Alphawood Gallery Oral History Studio. Fumiko Matsushita is being interviewed by Anna Takada of Alphawood Gallery. So to get started, can we, can you start by just stating your full name?

Fumiko M: 00:00:42 Fumiko Matsushita.

AT: 00:00:42 And can you tell me a little bit about your hometown and where you grew up?

FM: 00:00:48 Well, I was born and raised in Los Angeles, California, and just a normal childhood.

AT: 00:00:58 Um, did you grow up, do you have siblings?

FM: 00:01:02 Yes, I had, uh, three older brothers and an older sister and I was the youngest in the family.

AT: 00:01:12 And what did your parents do for a living?

FM: 00:01:15 Uh, when my father first came, he worked for the railroad, then he worked on a farm and later in life he became a gardener. And my mother did some sewing and then she also helped plant some seedlings and sell those to the nursery.

Daughter: 00:01:45 When they were in Los Angeles, did they manage a motel?

FM: 00:01:48 Oh, they did have a run a hotel for a while. And it's where the city hall in Los Angeles now stands. And I don't know the name of it or anything, but they gave that up when they, when my father went into gardening.

AT: 00:02:10 Ah, you said when he came to LA, so did he come to LA from Japan?

FM: 00:02:15 Oh, I'm not too sure about that. Uh, I know he was in Wyoming for a while, but I don't know for how long. So.

AT: 00:02:26 And where did he and your mom meet?

FM: 00:02:28 In Hiroshima, Japan. And it was an arranged marriage, but, uh, uh, I'm not sure of the dates or anything like that, but, uh, he did go back after he came to California he went back to Japan to, uh, and they were married there and then they came back together.

AT: 00:02:54 Are they both from Hiroshima?

FM: 00:02:56 Yes. Uh huh.

AT: 00:02:59 And, um, so what was that like growing up in LA? What kind of town was it like then when you were growing up?

FM: 00:03:09 Well, it was just normal, you know, like for a child. Uh, I was 14 when the war broke out and so I was going to school. And just went to school and had my friends and it was very nice.

AT: 00:03:30 Did you do any activities outside of school?

FM: 00:03:33 Well, we went to Japanese school and uh, I took piano lessons for just a little while. I was not a very good student.

AT: 00:03:48 And uh in your neighborhood, where were there other Japanese American families?

FM: 00:03:53 Yes, quite a few. And then on the corner of the block where we lived was a candy store run by Japanese man. And uh, that we usually was our stop after public school. We stopped there to pick up snacks and ice cream and then we went on to Japanese school, which was a couple of blocks from there

New Speaker: 00:04:21 And so, at home, were you speaking Japanese?

FM: 00:04:24 Yes, with our parents. And then with our siblings. It was English course.

AT: 00:04:34 So you were 14, uh, when the war broke out. Do you remember the, the day that Pearl Harbor was attacked?

FM: 00:04:44 Not really. Uh, I just felt why did my parents', you know, country have to attack our country? You know, other than that, I don't remember too much.

AT: 00:05:04 Do you remember, um, how your family or people around you are reacting to it? Was it a big deal or just you didn't?

FM: 00:05:16 Well, it was a shocking situation. Um, but I don't remember too much how everybody was reacting, they were all shocked and surprised, you know.

AT: 00:05:35 Um hmm. And so you were, you were in school and then, um, when did the Evacuation orders come out or how did you hear about the

FM: 00:05:52 Well, they had these signs posted on the telephone poles and everyone was talking about it of course. And uh, it was a very confusing situation for us because my brother had just been drafted into the US army, so it was something I just couldn't understand why he had to go into the army and we were being sent somewhere else, you know.

AT: 00:06:26 So would that mean he was drafted in '42? Does that sound?

FM: 00:06:31 Uh, yes, I believe so.

AT: 00:06:34 Was this your oldest brother?

FM: 00:06:35 Yes,

AT: 00:06:36 What was his name?

FM: 00:06:37 Hiroshi

AT: 00:06:37 Hiroshi

Daughter: 00:06:43 After Pearl Harbor was attacked. What was it like going to school? You're your friends and classmates? What did they say?

FM: 00:06:52 You know, I don't remember too much about that.

Daughter: 00:06:56 Do you remember?

Sister: 00:06:58 It sounds weird, but we didn't talk about it. It's something you don't talk about. Things going on.

FM: 00:07:10 Yeah. It's strange. No one you know.

AT: 00:07:23 And uh, Hiroshi was he drafted before you heard of the Evacuation Orders? So do you remember?

FM: 00:07:31 I think it was before, right before, so it was really puzzling to me why he had to go into the army and, you know, we were being sent elsewhere.

Sister: 00:07:49 Because we were shocked that he did go

AT: 00:07:49 Why were they, why were people shocked that he was drafted?

FM: 00:08:01 Well, it just seems so strange. The, you know, he would be going into the army when the United States was sending us elsewhere.

AT: 00:08:20 Did you know of other Japanese, young Japanese American men who had

FM: 00:08:23 No I didn't.

AT: 00:08:27 And, um, so where, where did your family, wherever you sent first?

FM: 00:08:34 We were sent to the Santa Anita Racetracks and, uh, we were fortunately to be in barracks, but some friends of ours were put into these horse stalls and so they had horse hair coming out of the woodwork and things like, and very uncomfortable for them, you know.

AT: 00:09:00 Can you describe, um, the timeline or the process of, um, you know, from your family finding out you had to leave to actually ending up at Santa Anita?

FM: 00:09:15 Well, I don't remember the timeline, but I know we had to help my father sell things like refrigerator and a piano and things like that. And a lot of the things that they had gotten from Japan, they burned because they didn't want to have anything that, you know, signified that they would be closely connected to Japan. And so a lot of the things they asked our neighbor to keep in the garage for them, but I think that was a total loss because I don't never remember that they got any of that back even after the war. So, uh, and then a lot of the things, the large items they would, they had sold to people in the neighborhood. So they did lose a lot of things.

AT: 00:10:28 How did that feel as a 14 year old?

FM: 00:10:32 Well, it just seems so unfair and I just felt sorry for my parents, you know, because they came to this country thinking that they would establish a new life. And, uh, they worked hard all the time and they were just being discriminated against you to know. So I really felt sorry for them.

AT: 00:11:03 And at the time, um, cause you had mentioned that they had a couple of different lines of work. What were they doing at the time that the Evacuation Orders came out?

FM: 00:11:15 Well, my father was doing gardening.

AT: 00:11:18 Was he gardening?

FM: 00:11:18 Uh huh

AT: 00:11:18 And um, so after you were, your family was selling some of your belongings, um, where did you go from there? Did you have to report somewhere?

FM: 00:11:37 We all had to meet that, the Methodist Church. And as I recall, we went on army convoy trucks to the camp. And so it was a long ride because we went from Santa Anita to, um, oh, trying to think of the name of the town. I don't remember now. Uh, it started with an a, but I can't remember. Uh, but it was way on the outskirts of Los Angeles and that's where the Santa Anita race tracks was.

AT: 00:12:21 So do you remember how long that trip would have been?

FM: 00:12:27 No, not really. No. I don't.

AT: 00:12:32 And was your whole family together?

FM: 00:12:35 Uh, yes. Except our middle brother. He was doing some kind of work that he did not go into the assembly center. And so it was our, the third son and my sister and I that went with our parents.

Daughter: 00:13:04 Was Uncle Mas in Chicago already when you were?

FM: 00:13:08 No, he was working in, in California. I'm not sure exactly what he was doing. Yeah. But, uh, no. So he was not in the camp with us.

AT: 00:13:26 And, um, so when you got to Santa Anita, what were some of your first impressions of it? What was it like?

FM: 00:13:35 Well, we were in a corner barrack of the whole camp. And right in front of us was this huge guard tower with soldiers, with guns, you know. And so it was rather frightening. And um, we had to all go to mess halls for our meals. And there was one main building where we went to the laundry room and the washrooms and showers. And, um, uh, for us, a group of us, we used to sit in the grandstand and we have a teacher who sort of taught us, but you couldn't really concentrate, you know, you're sitting in the grandstands trying to study. And it was really hard.

AT: 00:14:39 So that's where classes would take place? The classes?

FM: 00:14:44 Yeah. So I mean they were really, I mean they were called classes, but they really weren't know.

AT: 00:14:53 And at that point, um, were you in high school or?

FM: 00:14:58 I had just started and um, so, you know, it's, I had really just barely started.

AT: 00:15:11 And, um, do you remember what time of year that would have been that you went to Santa Anita or when you arrived?

FM: 00:15:18 I think it was April. Was it April?

Sister: 00:15:21 What?

FM: 00:15:21 Was it April that we went?

AT: 00:15:21 To Santa Anita?

Sister: 00:15:21 I think April, it was around then.

AT: 00:15:21 And so did you have to finish out the school year or?

FM: 00:15:38 No, I didn't finish it.

AT: 00:15:45 And how long was your family in Santa Anita?

FM: 00:15:51 About six months, eight months.

Sister: 00:15:58 Eight months.

FM: 00:16:01 Roughly eight months, I guess.

AT: 00:16:05 And did you know anyone who was also sent to Santa Anita from back home in LA?

FM: 00:16:10 We had a few friends. And uh, they were in, well, as I said, some of my friends were in the stables, the horse stables. And uh, we had some friends but not real close by. They were in other barracks.

AT: 00:16:34 And was it a very large, was it a very large?

FM: 00:16:38 It was good size. I can't remember how many units, but uh, yeah, I don't remember the

Daughter: 00:16:46 What's your living space? Smaller or bigger than when you got to Amache?

FM: 00:16:57 You know, I can't even remember what the rooms were like in a Santa Anita. Yeah, no, I don't remember that at all.

AT: 00:17:12 So if it was around eight months, it was probably winter time when you left Santa Anita?

FM: 00:17:23 It wasn't winter was it? No, it wasn't winter cause when we got to Amache it was so dusty. Yeah. Yeah. So maybe it wasn't eight months.

AT: 00:17:47 And how did, did you say earlier that if that was the army truck that you took from the Santa Anita to Amache?

FM: 00:17:56 Santa Anita to Amache we went on the train.

AT: 00:18:03 And, um, can you describe what, what that trip was like, how long it was?

FM: 00:18:09 Well, it was very long. And one thing that I remember, I cut my finger on something that was sticking out of the train and that was really my first train ride. And, uh, it just was a long trip and we couldn't see out. So, you know, we didn't know who you are going.

AT: 00:18:37 Were their stops and people use the restroom?

FM: 00:18:39 I don't remember. Stops. Do you? No, I don't think so.

AT: 00:18:55 Um, when you arrived to Amache, um, besides being very dusty, what else did you notice or what

FM: 00:19:06 I think other than that, that was a whole thing. It was just so dusty and windy.

AT: 00:19:22 Can you describe what that's like? And I, I'm asking really out of ignorance because being from Chicago, I had never experienced, you know, a very dusty place. Does that mean you, I mean, could you see, or

FM: 00:19:34 You could see, and we were assigned barracks and uh, when we walked in the room had these mattresses and they were just covered with dust, you know, sandy, sand that had blown in and it was not very pleasant.

AT: 00:20:01 So it was your family was still together and you were all staying in this?

FM: 00:20:06 Yes.

AT: 00:20:08 But you don't remember the rooms that well?

FM: 00:20:11 Remember what?

AT: 00:20:12 The room's like, what the actual barracks.

FM: 00:20:14 It was a very one to one building had two small units on the end and then, uh, too full, two, two more, the middle size. And then there was one in the center I recall. And so we had the, the one on the end was just was very small family. So it was maybe somebody, a couple or one child. And then like our unit was the next one. And we went back to Amache this past year, uh, on a pilgrimage. And I was very interested because they had reconstructed of barrack, which was standing right on the block that we lived in. So it really, uh, brought back memories and I said to my daughter, I don't know where I studied because the room was not that big. And, uh, with the beds in there, uh, I just don't know where I studied. I guess I must have studied on the bed, you know, so.

AT: 00:21:44 So do you remember your, your block and your address at camp?

FM: 00:21:49 Mhm. My block was 12H and the barrack was six and the unit was B. And we were on the end, very end of the camp. So right behind us was the barbed wire and then the guard tower was there. And then beyond that was all sage brush.

AT: 00:22:14 And what was the, what was the weather like in Amache?

FM: 00:22:18 Well, it was hot and dusty and winter was cold. And I guess that was the first time we saw snow because being from California, you know, I just never did.

AT: 00:22:36 Did you have the, the right clothes in the winter time?

FM: 00:22:41 Well, they had a store, I don't know what they called it. They had some kind of store that you could buy things, you know, or you could order through Montgomery Ward. So, so you did have, you know, clothing. Yeah.

AT: 00:23:05 During this time, were you in communication with your eldest brother at all?

FM: 00:23:11 He came to actually, he came to visit us in camp one time. And, um, so, you know, we really didn't correspond that much. I think my parents must have, but I didn't.

AT: 00:23:29 And how about the rest of your family and camp? Did your parents work or your older siblings?

FM: 00:23:38 My father worked in the mess hall. I think he was stoking the coal burners and then, uh, our mother, what was she doing? I can't, yeah, I'm not sure what, whether she was in the kitchen. Yeah. So

Daughter: 00:24:07 They both worked at camp?

FM: 00:24:10 Well, I went to school and then when I graduated I worked as the secretary to the sanitation officer and his office was in the hospital and then my sister worked for the pioneer press, which was the newspaper there. So we were both employed. Was a $16 a month?

Sister: 00:24:36 Yeah.

FM: 00:24:38 Yeah. The professional doctors where I think getting 19 a month.

AT: 00:24:44 And, um, what, what was school like in Amache? How did that compare to either Santa Anita or your school?

FM: 00:24:57 Well, Santa Anita, you really couldn't say it was school because we were sitting in the grandstand where the horses normally would've been running. Um, so I mean, it was, you know, we had good teachers. We had some, uh, Nisei teachers, but some Caucasian teachers from the outside. And so we had good schooling there.

AT: 00:25:27 And did you do anything, any activities outside of school and work?

FM: 00:25:34 The only thing I remember, I, I did play on the basketball team for awhile, but that was about it.

AT: 00:25:41 So they had teams?

FM: 00:25:44 They did.

AT: 00:25:44 And how long was your family at Amache?

FM: 00:25:55 Well, I was there actually almost four years because I stayed until my parents were able to leave because my brother had already gone and my sister had gone. And so I stayed with my parents.

AT: 00:26:12 And where did your sister go?

FM: 00:26:15 She moved to Chicago because my brother had moved to Chicago.

AT: 00:26:18 And what was in Chicago for them?

FM: 00:26:24 Well, our middle brother had been working there and uh, so then of course my younger brother moved to Chicago and then my sister followed. And so that's where we all ended up.

AT: 00:26:42 And what they, what were they doing for work?

FM: 00:26:46 You know, my, the middle brother, he was doing insurance. Was he selling insurance? Yeah. And then our, um, the brother below him, uh, was working as a supervisor in a bindery. A job that he held for many years. Yeah. So he did very well there and he had a lot of Nisei's working for him. So it was very good.

AT: 00:27:28 And do you recall, was that some kind of like work leave that they were able to leave camp early to move to Chicago?

FM: 00:27:39 Um, well, actually when my brother first came, I don't think he had a job from things I've heard from other people. They said he was walking along the sidewalk and someone yelled from above, do you need a job? And my brother said yes. So there's a person said, well, come on up. And uh, he started working there right away. And uh, he became the sup, one of the supervisors there and he was there for many years.

Daughter: 00:28:19 Why was he able to leave Amache before you?

FM: 00:28:23 Why was he able to? Well, people just started relocating, you know, and uh, he came to Chicago because our second brother was already out here.

AT: 00:28:40 Had you heard of other people and other families in Amache going to Chicago?

FM: 00:28:47 Not really. A lot of people who are going to Cleveland. Uh, but we didn't know too many in Chicago.

AT: 00:28:59 Would you happen to remember the years that your siblings left camp for Chicago?

New Speaker: 00:29:07 Think the year 1943. 43' Cause I left 45'. Uh huh. So our brother must've left more like 42'. He also, uh, from camp went out to Greeley, Colorado to do farm work. So

AT: 00:29:50 Do you know what kind of farm he was on?

FM: 00:29:53 Sugar beets. I don't know what he was doing, but a group of them had been hired to go out there.

AT: 00:30:05 And um, do you remember where your family ended up coming to in Chicago? Which neighborhoods or?

FM: 00:30:16 We lived on Wrightwood uh, we were right near Clark Street. And we lived there for many years. And then we, from there we moved across the street to a building on the Clark Street. And then from there I guess we moved to a LaSalle Street, I think LaSalle Street on. Yeah.

AT: 00:30:45 And so were, were all of the siblings living together?

FM: 00:30:48 Pretty much. Yeah.

AT: 00:30:54 And it sounds like it was kind of one at a time. People, your siblings were

FM: 00:31:00 Right. And I, our parents, were here at all. So, but they stayed about a year, but my father couldn't take the cold so they finally moved back to California.

AT: 00:31:18 Do you know which year that was when they came out to join everyone in Chicago?

FM: 00:31:22 It was 1945. That's when, when I came out.

AT: 00:31:31 And you said, um, was it both your parents? They were here for a year?

FM: 00:31:37 Yes.

AT: 00:31:37 And where did they move back to?

FM: 00:31:39 To Los Angeles.

AT: 00:31:43 And when you first, well first of all, how did you get end up? How did you end up in Chicago? How did you get here?

FM: 00:31:51 I think we came by train, if I remember right. I think so.

AT: 00:31:58 And how was that trip? Do you remember though?

FM: 00:32:00 I don't remember that at all.

AT: 00:32:05 What about your, your first impressions of the city? I imagine that it was probably your first time in Chicago?

FM: 00:32:11 Well, I just remember it was big and dirty.

AT: 00:32:17 Um, and what, what were you, uh, did you find a job when you?

FM: 00:32:22 My sister was already working for the Methodist Church and so I just went and applied and got a job there. So I worked there full time for about a year and then I decided that I wanted to go to school. Um, and I, so I started going to the Evanston Collegiate Institute in Evanston, which is now Kendall College. And, um, I still work part time at the church building and I ended up in various offices in the church building. Um, they were located at 740 Rush Street in Chicago for awhile. And I can't remember the year, but they built a building in Evanston, so they moved up there. So in total I worked for the Methodist Church in various offices for a total of 42 years.

AT: 00:33:30 What was the name of the church?

FM: 00:33:33 It was Methodist Church and then it became the United Methodist Church. It was headquarters offices. So I first worked for the central treasury, then I moved to what was called the board of the laity, which was an office that dealt with all the lay people in the United States. And uh, from there I went to what was called the United Methodist Communications and worked there. I was going to continue working there until I retired, but they, uh, the church decided to move our offices to Nashville and my family didn't want to go there. Um, they, the church took us down to Nashville so we could look around and see if we wanted to take up residence there. But my family didn't want to go and I considered commuting for awhile, but then decided that would be a little too hard. So I took early retirement and then after awhile I found another job in Evanston. Um working for a wholesale jewelry company and I was with them for about 27 years.

AT: 00:35:16 So were you commuting from um, well, not too far from where we are now, to Evanston?

FM: 00:35:23 Chicago, Evanston

AT: 00:35:27 And would you travel by train or?

FM: 00:35:28 Yes, I went by L train.

AT: 00:35:33 And when you first came here, were there a lot of other Japanese American families in the neighborhood? In the neighborhoods?

FM: 00:35:47 In the neighborhood? Um, not really. Um, we moved from LaSalle Street, well, and then well I got married and so then I was living on Wrightwood for awhile. And then from there I moved to where I'm living now, um, on the Northwest side.

AT: 00:36:19 Which neighborhood is long?

FM: 00:36:23 I think it's called the Lawndale, the Lawndale neighborhood, I think.

Daughter: 00:36:33 It's between Lawndale and Lincoln Park.

FM: 00:36:33 It's um, about seven miles west of Wrigley Field near the expressway so.

AT: 00:36:46 Where did you meet, where and when did you meet your husband?

FM: 00:36:49 Um, they used to have a basketball games at Olivet Institute, the Nisei League and he was coaching one of the teams there. And I was helping out as cashier for people coming to watch the game. And so we gradually met there.

AT: 00:37:12 Were there a lot of activities like that where Nisei

FM: 00:37:15 We used to have a bowling league and we used to bowl. Both, both of us used to bowl in that. Um, and then they had Nisei leagues, where they had basketball for the boys and girls and they had basket, baseball teams. And so they had quite a few activities.

AT: 00:37:40 How about the, um, the social dances? Were you around that age?

FM: 00:37:46 I was, but I wasn't that interested in it, so never went. Um,

AT: 00:37:53 And I imagine the same goes for the, the social clubs, the

FM: 00:37:57 Right

AT: 00:37:58 [The Ting-a-Lings Things and the Devonairs?]

FM: 00:37:58 Yeah and um, I've been along to one of the church clubs, but other than that

AT: 00:38:10 What was the name of that club?

FM: 00:38:12 They called it the [Maya Devies?] At that time, but it didn't last too long. Yeah. We also did have, uh, I'm trying to think if this was before the war, if it was here, but we, I did belong to a group, the Tri Delts. But, uh, we did have a group that we used to have as a club here in Chicago too, for a while, not too long.

AT: 00:38:53 And the folks who were in those, I guess social networks if you could call it that, um, where those folks mostly coming from camp?

FM: 00:39:03 Oh yes, yeah uh huh.

New Speaker: 00:39:04 And was that something that people would talk about, like where they were coming from or because I imagine it was people from all over.

New Speaker: 00:39:19 You know, not really. People just didn't talk about things about camp. And you know, I don't know why that was,

AT: 00:39:31 But I also wanted to ask, um, when you were, before the war and in LA, was your family religious? Did you go to church?

FM: 00:39:47 We went to church, but we weren't really what you call religious, but we did go to the church.

AT: 00:39:55 Was it a Methodist?

FM: 00:39:57 No. Buddhist church.

AT: 00:40:02 Buddhist church.

FM: 00:40:02 Uh huh

AT: 00:40:02 And when you were working for the Methodist Church, were you attending?

FM: 00:40:08 No, I and you know, one thing, uh, I thought it was pretty nice. No one ever tried to convince me that I should become a Methodist, you know. Uh, so it was perfectly all right. And I used to do a lot of traveling for, uh, for awhile I was in charge of the, what's called the transportation office. So whenever we had conferences in various parts of the States, I would go to set up an office to help the ministers with their travel plans. And so I did do a lot of traveling at that time, you know.

AT: 00:41:00 And um, what year did you get married?

FM: 00:41:03 Uh, 1950.

New Speaker: 00:41:07 And um, did do I have it right, did you move once you got married to?

FM: 00:41:17 We were on, um, Wrightwood for a while and then, uh, we moved to, uh, where we are now in 1955. No, 57' cause she was two years old.

AT: 00:41:44 And how many children do you have?

FM: 00:41:46 I have two. I have a son, I have a daughter and I have a son who is 11 years younger than her.

AT: 00:41:57 And in your own households, um, were you, uh, were you speaking Japanese with them or keeping anything really?

FM: 00:42:10 Not really. They did go to Japanese school for little while, but, uh, we didn't speak it at home except when my father in- law stayed with this awhile. We did speak a little bit then, but uh. And it's, it's really too bad because after he was gone and my parents were gone, you know, we used to correspond with my parents in Japanese and uh, uh, after they've been gone, we just don't have the opportunities. So I'm slowly forgetting how to write it and how to speak it, you know, which is unfortunate.

AT: 00:43:01 Do you have any questions?

Daughter: 00:43:01 I always wondered when you were on the train going to a Amache and the shades were pulled, you didn't really know where you were going. Is that correct?

FM: 00:43:27 We didn't know where we were going, no.

Daughter: 00:43:29 Did you know what the situation was going to be when you got there?

FM: 00:43:34 Not really.

Daughter: 00:43:34 It was total uncertainty for four days on this train and when you got there, who explained to you what this life was going to be like for you there?

FM: 00:43:47 Well nobody really explained anything just

Daughter: 00:43:53 And while you were there, did you know what the end was going to be? Did you know you had to wait until this happened? It was just total uncertainty.

FM: 00:44:07 No, you just, it was, you just live your life each day.

Daughter: 00:44:11 While you were there, did you ever hear rumblings of discontent?

FM: 00:44:20 Not really, which is a little surprising when I looking back, you know, but uh, as they say, it's our parents who are the one who really, I felt so badly for them because here they thought there have establishing a new life here and they're going through all this. They lost everything that they had and, but they even, they just rallied around and started a new life again

Daughter: 00:45:04 After the war, after they were settled in Los Angeles, did they ever talk about camp?

FM: 00:45:11 No, not really. People just never really did. I think it's just now when the younger people are getting to be adults, they're the ones who have started to raise the questions, which is I think very good. And uh, in our age people just really never talked too much about it.

Daughter: 00:45:50 Do you feel any bitterness?

FM: 00:45:55 No. Um, you just sort of wondered why they had to go to such extremes as to move everybody and put them in these confined areas with guards you know, overlooking, but, uh, uh, I don't think people really were feeling bitterness, you know?

AT: 00:46:29 Yeah. When you had children, did you share with them what happened to your family?

FM: 00:46:39 You know, not really. I don't know why that is, but we really didn't talk about it.

Daughter: 00:46:51 I also wondered in camp, the guards, did you have any interactions with them and if so, how did they treat you?

FM: 00:47:02 Not really.

Daughter: 00:47:04 Never spoke?

FM: 00:47:04 They were there with their guns. And you just saw what were sort of scared you know.

Daughter: 00:47:12 So, and then people from the Granada Community who would come and work inside the camp, how did they, how did they treat you or?

FM: 00:47:23 They were all very, um, well, I don't know how to put it, but they were all very nice to us and even to this day, they are just wonderful people. Uh, and you know, they refer to the camp as Granada a lot of times, but to us it was Amache Relocation Center and which is located near the town of Granada. And the people in Granada, we're really just wonderful people and to this day they continue to be very good to the Japanese. And uh, they, um, uh, Mr. Hopper, who at that time was the principal of the high school has gotten the high school students and they come and clean the area in ah, Amache and they continue to work to keep the place up. And, um, as I say, I went on this pilgrimage this past year and he was there to show us around too. And, uh, he's just a wonderful man that, uh, really has done so much for the Japanese Americans.

AT: 00:48:57 And why, why is that something that's important to you? You know, people are doing that kind of work?

FM: 00:49:04 Well, I think it's important that they do that because they, well, they're keeping up the feeling of friendship. And I don't know how to explain it, but, uh, there's really a deep sense of appreciation for them. And I know a lot of the Nisei's feel the same way and, uh, I don't know about other camps, but the, the, um, uh, Amache's fortunate that in Denver also there's a group that has the pilgrimage every year and they go down to the camp site and they have a memorial service for people who have passed away. And, um, and usually the, uh, they open up the Granada high school, uh, to have a luncheon for us there. Uh, it's just really a wonderful feeling to know that there are people who care about us and they continue to do that.

AT: 00:50:40 Was that last pilgrimage, was that the first time you had returned to Amache?

FM: 00:50:45 No, I had been there once. Let's see. I had been there once before, I think it was back in 98' or so. Um, we stayed in Colorado Springs and took a bus to Amache. And, uh, at that time, the grounds were not as kept up as it is now. And now they've got markers, signs showing where things were and things like that. And uh, uh, but it was, you know, very nice that we were able to see where we lived and things like that.

AT: 00:51:32 That first time that you went back, who did you go with?

FM: 00:51:39 I went with my husband and, uh, I met some of my girlfriends there who had come from Los Angeles. Um, I was the only one that moved to Chicago. All my girlfriends went back to Los Angeles. And, uh, and we continued to, uh, meet each other every year. And I think this is the third year that we haven't because we're all getting older.

AT: 00:52:15 And that first time that you went back, what was that like going back to that site?

FM: 00:52:24 Well it, uh, I guess it sort of felt like home, although, I, my parents were living in a different place. Uh, but I was able to see all my girlfriends and uh, so it was very nice. Yeah.

AT: 00:52:45 Were you able to try to figure out where your actual Barrick had been? Like, did you find the

FM: 00:52:53 When I went to visit the camp? Oh yes. Because as I said, they reconstructed the barrack and it's located right where my barrack was standing. But the first time it wasn't there, of course.

AT: 00:53:09 The first time you were able to travel?

FM: 00:53:11 When I went to visit uh huh.

AT: 00:53:16 And then so the second time you went was on this recent pilgrimage, is that right?

FM: 00:53:22 I'm trying to remember if I went another time, but I think was the, when I went this past year, I went with my, my daughter and my, one of my grandsons and my nephew and uh, so it was a very good trip.

AT: 00:53:41 What was that like taking your family to, to Amache?

FM: 00:53:46 Well, I was really happy that they were able to see where I was living for four years. And um, you know, they couldn't see some of the things like what the washrooms looked like and things like that. But at least I felt that they got a feel of where we lived in the, um, summertime's, it would be hot and dusty. They used to call it the dust bowl and then in the wintertime was the snow. And uh, actually that was the first time I had ever seen snow when I first went into camp. Yeah.

Daughter: 00:54:38 When you were in camp, I think I thought in the film downstairs that people could go out for different reasons. Did you, did auntie leave the boundaries of the camp during the time you lived there?

FM: 00:54:53 You could get permits to go to the dentist.

Daughter: 00:54:57 So did you, did you leave?

FM: 00:54:59 No, I was going to and I never did. Um, and then we used to get permits to go, uh, I think it was called the Arkansas River. We used to go for weenie bakes.

Sister: 00:55:14 Oh that's right

FM: 00:55:14 So bunch of us would go out, somebody would get a permit and a bunch of us would go out and have a weenie bake.

AT: 00:55:24 Was that in town or?

FM: 00:55:27 Um, not right in town, but not too far. Yeah, I'm actually, Granada was not too far from Amache so.

Daughter: 00:55:39 So you were in camp, did you ever feel like I need to get out of here?

FM: 00:55:47 Not really, no. Yeah.

AT: 00:55:49 And what was that like when you actually did leave camp and go to Chicago? How did that feel?

FM: 00:56:09 I guess it just felt like I was starting a new life.

AT: 00:56:13 Did you experience any kind of discrimination or, or other challenges when you got to Chicago?

FM: 00:56:23 Not really. The only thing like at the grocery store, things where being rationed because you know, that was everybody. Um, but I didn't feel anything, you know, other than that.

Daughter: 00:56:44 You didn't have a hard time finding a place to live or a job?

FM: 00:56:45 Well, I think the place to live, I think our brother had already gotten the place. And then the job, my sister was working there, so I went and applied and I got the job right away. And as I say, I started there in 1945 and I was still there 42 years later. And in different capacities.

Daughter: 00:57:17 How were you able to connect with other Japanese Americans once you settled in Chicago?

FM: 00:57:24 Well, we wanted the Buddhist church. Um

Daughter: 00:57:28 And was it important to connect?

FM: 00:57:31 Oh yes. And we also, you know, to the bowling leagues and the basketball leagues, um, things like that we were able to connect to, you know, so that was good.

AT: 00:57:48 When you had children, was that still important to you to find community for them?

FM: 00:57:57 Oh yes.

New Speaker: 00:57:57 And how did you, how did you, how did that play out for your children?

FM: 00:58:04 Well, we took them to church and, uh, they had Japanese school, so we got them started in that for awhile. Uh, and uh, but you know, that was, we tried to do things in the Japanese community.

AT: 00:58:27 And how about today? Are you still involved in church or,

FM: 00:58:34 Well, I go on occasion. I'm not that actively involved anymore. Um, because of my age, I don't move that fast anymore and, but I still think it's very important that we all tried to stay in touch with the Japanese community. We, um, uh, my husband had belonged to golf groups and um, bowling groups uh and, you know, Japanese groups and uh, and he was active in Boy Scouts and judo. And so we continued to stay in touch that way.

AT: 00:59:28 And it's, as we wrap up here, um, one question I like to ask is if you could leave some kind of message or, or legacy with your children and your grandchildren and the generations to come, what, what would you want that to be?

FM: 00:59:54 Well, I want them to respect one another, love one another, be kind to each other and take care of each other.

AT: 01:00:14 And is there, is there anything else that you would like to add or that I might've missed in the conversation?

FM: 01:00:21 No. I guess another word that I would put in there would be for them to honor the family. So that would be about it, I think.

Daughter: 01:00:40 Anything else you want to add?

Sister: 01:00:44 No.

Speaker 1: 01:00:51 Well, thank you so much again for coming to speak.

FM: 01:00:57 That's okay, I hope I did all right.