[NOTE: This transcript has not undergone a final proofreading and may contain
errors. It is being provided in draft form to enhance access to the video recording. As soon as possible, it will be replaced with a final, corrected transcript and will be synced to the video to provide clickable timecodes.]Paul Arakawa: 00:00:01 Are you going to destroy this film afterwards?
Anna Takada: 00:00:03 So could you two start by stating your names, your full
names and your hometown?Susie Kimura: 00:00:14 Oh.
PA: 00:00:14 I'm Paul Arakawa.
AT: 00:00:18 And where were you born?
PA: 00:00:21 Where was I born? San Diego, California.
AT: 00:00:25 And Mrs. Kimura--
SK: 00:00:27 Oh--
AT: 00:00:28 What's your name and your hometown?
SK: 00:00:30 Susie Kimura. Where I live now?
AT: 00:00:37 Where you were born?
SK: 00:00:38 Oh, where I was born? Newcastle, California.
AT: 00:00:44 So Newcastle and San Diego; Can you tell me a little bit more about
your hometowns? What--what they were like, how you remember them?PA: 00:00:53 Well, it was a navy town. Pretty Nice. And the weather-- the
weather was very nice. People wonder why I left. [Chuckles]AT: 00:01:08 What year were you born?
PA: 00:01:10 1923.
AT: 00:01:14 And, Mrs. Kimura, what was Newastle like?
SK: 00:01:17 Oh, well I was born there, but I, I lived in Auburn, California and
that's all agricultural--town, a little town, probably 3,000 people there.AT: 00:01:36 So you moved there when you were very young?
SK: 00:01:38 Yeah. Yeah. I think we moved there in 1932 on a farm until the war
broke out.AT: 00:01:49 And what year were you born?
SK: 00:01:51 '24.
AT: 00:01:56 And how did your families end up in those--those areas? What did
your parents do?PA: 00:02:04 Well, my parents-- my dad had a male clothing store. Ma and Pa kind
of, type of store.AT: 00:02:20 And--and how about you, you Mrs. Kimura?
SK: 00:02:22 Yeah. Well, my folks bought a farm in Auburn, so that's where we
moved when I was what-- in '32, something like 8 years old. And we've been there since, until the war started. Oh, and in fact, my brother got the farm right now.AT: 00:02:46 Oh wow, still.
SK: 00:02:47 So they were able to get the farm back.
AT: 00:02:51 What-- what kind of farm was it?
SK: 00:02:53 It was a-- fruit farm. So fruit farm, did have some berries and
things like that, but mostly fruits. Yeah.AT: 00:03:09 And what are your--did you two grow up around other Japanese
American families or what were the towns like?PA: 00:03:23 Well, San Diego--I-- we lived in town, so there were very few
Japanese there because most of them were farmers and the other part of the San Diego County.AT: 00:03:39 And did either of you have siblings?
PA: 00:03:44 What?
AT: 00:03:44 Siblings, brothers and sisters.
PA: 00:03:46 Well, yeah. I was in the middle with five of us, two girls and two
boy--two boys.AT: 00:04:00 Were the girls older or?--
PA: 00:04:04 Well one-- one was older and the other one, was the youngest.
AT: 00:04:15 And so were you--were you third or fourth?
PA: 00:04:18 I was in the middle. I was the third one.
AT: 00:04:21 Third child
PA: 00:04:22 Yeah.
AT: 00:04:24 And how about you Mrs. Kimura?
SK: 00:04:26 Oh, well-- there was, actually there was nine of us. The oldest one
died right after childbirth. And I got one older brother, he passed away couple of years ago. And certain I'm next in line and I got what five below me. Yeah.AT: 00:04:45 So you're both the third child?
SK: 00:04:53 [Chuckles and confirms yes with nod]
AT: 00:04:54 So, and-- and how about you Mrs. Kimura was-- did you grow up
around other Japanese American families or --SK: 00:05:01 I--there, a couple of neighbors there were on being on the farm.
Like they were, they were -- mostly American people.AT: 00:05:12 And was that, did the same go for your schooling? Were you going to
school with--SK: 00:05:17 --- Our school was---well, they told us we were in the country. We
have to go to a-- a country library and we couldn't go to the town library. There were not too many, maybe 15 family-- Japanese familes, but mostly it was a church group.AT: 00:05:47 What, what kind of church was that?
SK: 00:05:49 It was Buddhist church, yeah.
AT: 00:05:55 And so where--what was kind of a--a typical day for you two growing up?
SK: 00:06:06 School. Is it school and work? [Both laugh]
PA: 00:06:10 No work for me but school.
SK: 00:06:12 No work, school yeah. Being on a farm, we had--yeah, we had to work
after we got back from school when we were youngPA: 00:06:23 Us city folks don't do that.
SK: 00:06:25 Yeah. Yeah. You were a city.
AT: 00:06:30 And, did your parents, did they all come from Japan?
PA and SK: 00:06:35 [Both nod yes].
AT: 00:06:37 Where in Japan were they from?
SK: 00:06:38 Hiroshima.
PA: 00:06:40 Same. Same here.
AT: 00:06:44 And do you know what year they came to the states?
PA: 00:06:47 Gee, I don't know. I think my dad came early part of 1900s.
SK: 00:06:56 My folks, my dad was here when he was young. I think he was 13
years old. And then, then he went back to Japan to marry my mother and then they came back. Yeah.AT: 00:07:15 Do you know what year that was that they came back?
SK: 00:07:20 1919, 1920, something like that. I think they got married 1920, I
think yeah.AT: 00:07:28 And then do you two remember when, when Pearl Harbor was bombed?--
PA: 00:07:32 What?
SK: 00:07:32 Oh
AT: 00:07:32 Do you remember when Pearl Harbor was bombed?
PA: 00:07:38 Yeah, I was listening to the University of Chicago Roundtable.
That's what I usually listened to every Sunday. And then, you know the news broke about the bombing and-- shocking.AT: 00:07:58 Were you at home?
PA: 00:07:59 Yeah.
AT: 00:08:01 Listening to the radio?
PA: 00:08:01 Yeah.
SK: 00:08:01 We-- we, we were in Japanese school on-- this was on Sunday. So we
were, we were, I was at Japanese school. And then when we had lunch and right after we got back from the lunch period, the boys were-- the boys had cars and they were listening to the radio and they said, they were saying the Pearl Harbor, yeah. Japan-- Japanese bombed from Pearl Harbor and we were talking and talking and-- but the teacher got angry at us because we were whispering and talking and, I didn't think he knew anything until he went-- I mean nobody told him that Japanese had bombed Hawai'i, and--and that teacher got [turns to Paul Arakawa to ask], what do they call it interned? They took all the Isseis, you know, teachers and town people, they were interned first, you know, the, the leaders, I would say the leaders. The Japanese teachers.AT: 00:09:28 So your, your teacher was Japanese?
SK: 00:09:31 This was Japanese school. This was Sunday, so yeah. Oh yeah,
Japanese school on Sunday.AT: 00:09:39 Did you know what Pearl Harbor was, before?
PA: 00:09:41 Oh yeah. Well yeah, I kept up with world events anyways so I knew
where. it was.AT: 00:09:52 Did you know what it was?
SK: 00:09:54 I didn't know what it was. [Chuckles]
AT: 00:09:59 And how did your-- did you talk about it with your families or
what, what, what happened after? Did you notice any changes?PA: 00:10:08 Well. We didn't know what was going to happen to us after that. I
kind of dreaded going to school Monday. You know, I was -- don't know how my classmates would treat me, but it turned out all right. Even after we assembled in the auditorium to hear president Roosevelt make his speech about Pearl Harbor. Yeah. And, I thought maybe the attitude of peop-- you know, my teammates, schoolmates would change after that speech, but same, still fooling around, you know.AT: 00:10:57 What did--what did you think would change or, or why do you think
they would've changed when the speech?--PA: 00:11:03 What was what?
AT: 00:11:05 Why--what do you think would have changed after the speech of the
students hearing--PA: 00:11:11 Well, we--we didn't know what they were going to do. Then, later we
found out what they were going to do to us but 'till then we didn't know. We thought maybe we just keep on living [laughs].AT: 00:11:28 And how about for--for you Mrs.--?
SK: 00:11:30 I don't really remember right away when we went to high school, but
I know all the, Japanese people clung together, you know, I guess more or less to support each other. But that-- and then soon after that we couldn't go to high school-- high school. We couldn't go to the high school because that was the restricted area.AT: 00:12:01 So was that out-- was your school, far from your home?
SK: 00:12:07 Yeah. I think it must have been about two miles. Three miles? Yeah.
--The school was, more east than where we were at, but we couldn't get into-- they classified the area as a white zone and red zone. What was it? White zone and--?PA: 00:12:29 Something like that--
SK: 00:12:29 Yeah, I know. Yeah. White zone was all right to go ---but the--and
so we couldn't go to the high school. So the school was closed, the town-- so we had to go. My dad went-- during the day and couldn't go at night. The nighttime, I think you--did you have to--[turned to Paul Arakawa].PA: 00:12:57 Curfew.
SK: 00:12:57 We had curfew. And did you have to have the shades drawn on the windows?
PA: 00:13:05 Yeah, wartime.
SK: 00:13:05 On the farm, we never had shade. [Both laugh]. Nobody around you
know, so you had to cover the-- cover the windows. That was new to us.AT: 00:13:25 Who was giving those instructions? Were like, where were you
hearing that those were the-PA: 00:13:31 Where was what?
AT: 00:13:32 Where were you hearing those instructions or who was saying that
you need, that there was a curfew and that you needed to have your shades drawn?PA: 00:13:40 Oh yeah, they had it posted on the, on the telephone post. They had
stapled on there. Which district, which area, you hadSK: 00:13:55 You had telephone? You had telephone?
PA: 00:13:55 Telephone.
SK: 00:13:55 That's why I was just wondering how did we hear, because we had no
telephone, we didn't get any newspapers--PA: 00:14:03 Yeah. I lived in the city, so--
SK: 00:14:04 So you're different.
PA: 00:14:06 Yeah.
SK: 00:14:06 Ours was just maybe somebody you know just said, just traveled, you
know. 'Cause out in the farm area, how does things travel?AT: 00:14:24 Somehow because you found out.
SK: 00:14:26 Yeah. Yeah.
PA: 00:14:35 By telephone, your friends calling you.
SK: 00:14:35 I don't know.
AT: 00:14:36 And so you were both, in your last year of high school, is that
right? Seniors?SK: 00:14:43 Were you in senior? I was in senior.
PA: 00:14:44 Senior, senior. I went around the school and said goodbye to the
teachers and my architecture teacher said that maybe I'm lucky I'm going into camp 'cause, he was of German descent and he said during World War I, he went to I don't know what he went through, but he must've been hassled, you know, so he says, in a way you might be lucky to be in camp because you don't know, people get hostile, you know, hostile towards you otherwise that was it.AT: 00:15:40 And -- Mrs. Kimura when did, so they closed your high school to you--
SK: 00:15:46 They didn't close it. We just couldn't go.
AT: 00:15:49 And-- and what, when did they implement that? When did you--
SK: 00:15:54 Probably, I think about March or April of '42--
AT: 00:16:02 And then do you remember when the evacuation orders went out?
SK: 00:16:08 You went out early--
PA: 00:16:14 About February, I think?
SK: 00:16:16 See we didn't have to move until July.
PA: 00:16:18 Well, we didn't move out until April. But the order came out, I
don't know exactly when but-- February something-- you know, they had to get--all the politicians had to get together and figure out what they're gonna do with us.AT: 00:16:45 Do you remember your--your responses or how you felt when, when you
saw the orders or when you heard about them?PA: 00:16:55 Well, kind of shocking that they would try to incarcerate
us--being, you know, American citizens. We had the face of the enemy, but that doesn't mean that we weren't loyal to our, you know, country that we were born in. So it was kind of demeaning to me.SK: 00:17:20 Well, I couldn't understand why we were picked when there were
also, Germans and Italians and why it was just us. It was my, that was my feeling.AT: 00:17:44 And so how much time did your families have to--to get ready to, to
leave? And do you remember that period well?PA: 00:17:54 Well, from the time we got the order 'till April, we had time, you
know, my, my father had and they still, they told us that we could only take what we can carry. And my dad had his back with two suitcases and something in each-- under each arm. But when we went to the train station, there was a lot of people with more stuff than there was said. So I don't know whether they didn't allow them to carry the rest of that stuff or not, but we followed order by doing so and the five kids factors how to do that so--SK: 00:18:44 We had more time to get our stuff ready. 'Cause I think even they
moved in like February, March?PA: 00:18:56 Yeah the order came out
SK: 00:19:01 And we didn't have to move until July. So we had more time.
AT: 00:19:09 Did your parents try to make any arrangements with, with the
farmer? Or with the property?SK: 00:19:16 The farm was was supposed to have been taken over by the fruit
growers association that was run by the-- and you know, everybody just bought the fruit packaged--fruit there and then they, the fruit company will sell off to Chicago, New York or where ever. And they were supposed to take over the farm and everything, but the people that came in, was a Portuguese family is what I understood because I didn't go back until after the wars, but I didn't know a thing about them. They must have been there about three, four years. I know when my folks moved --when the camps closed, they went back and they want move on the farm, 'cause in another year or soon they could take over the farm. So we stayed there. So my, my brother, he went back from Chicago.SK: 00:20:36 I think it was in about '48, '47--oh '47 I think he went back and,
he asked his friend-- his classmate who was an attorney, you know, he wanted to know what the-- what the deal was and told them, they didn't pay the property tax. So they were going to take over the farm or whatever. So my brother paid the fine whatever it was. And they got, that's how they got the farm and then these people moved out.AT: 00:21:16 Wow.
SK: 00:21:16 Yeah. So that's how-- a lot of people just lost their farm because,
they didn't pay the property tax. Well, they didn't know where to send the property tax to. Yeah. You know, so they didn't pay.AT: 00:21:46 And so where, when--when your family was, had all of your bags and
everything, where, where did you go?PA: 00:21:56 We went to the train station. We were told to be at the train
station at a certain time. We went down there and got ready to board the train that was going to take us to Santa Anita.AT: 00:22:15 At that point, did you have tags for your luggage and everything?
Like a family number?--SK: 00:22:24 Yeah, they gave you a family number. Yeah.
PA: 00:22:32 Tagged us like a piece of meat.
AT: 00:22:34 Do you remember your number, your family number?
PA: 00:22:38 No.
SK: 00:22:38 Mine was 3-8-8 something.I don't know. The first three number but
38849 or something like that.PA: 00:22:42 My dad took care of all that, so.
AT: 00:22:49 And, and Mrs. Kimura, did your family go to a train station or how
did you?--SK: 00:22:54 Yeah, that part. I know we had to sell the car and some--- I think
the people who bought the car took us to one meeting place and the meeting place is where they had trucks and --and as far as I can remember is that we all got together and we got onto the truck and, and we went to the train station. So--'cause everybody sold the car. But we-- we didn't have electricity until, I think it was '39, 1939 or something. And just before the war broke out, my dad got a refrigerator for my mom and a radio for us kids. And my mom, oh, when they came and took the refrigerator, she cried. That's the first time I seen her cry. Yeah, that's, until then we had the ice box, you know -- [chuckles]. And, well on the farm you have guns--you know-- or rifles and radio. They had to-- we had to take that to a police station. I don't know where they store it, but after the war, you know, we got those back and the other stuff that we stored on the farm or the neighbor's place, we never got back. But those things, I think the gun, the rifle and the-- refrigerator-- I mean the gun and the radio we got back. So I don't know where they kept it 'cause we weren't the only Oriental that had the radio or guns, you know. But I'm sure everybody who stored it got theirs back.AT: 00:25:09 Do you remember any of the things that either you or your family
packed to take with you?SK: 00:25:17 They what?
AT: 00:25:18 Do you remember what you--what you packed and brought with you to camp?
SK: 00:25:22 Oh well clothing, really. Yeah. 'Cause we couldn't take mu--just
one --PA: 00:25:29 Only she can carry -- can't put frying pans or whatever there, they carried.
SK: 00:25:36 Well, all the books and records and all the photograph--I know, we
burned it.PA: 00:25:42 My parents--my father burned it, because he thought he was going to
get, they're going to come and get him because he was a president of one Japanese organization. So they would--they were--everyday the FBI would come and pick up, you know, the father and my dad would come back from downtown and say, they took so and so's father you know today. And then next day he would come and tell us they took some other father away. So he antic-- he anticipated that he would be taken away since he was one of the first presidents of one organization, you know. And, but by that time the evacuation order came to, so I guess that probably saved him from being taken away.AT: 00:26:40 Which organization was he president of?--
PA: 00:26:41 I don't know it. Some Japanese organization that-- You know they
had church organizations, community leaders, you know.SK: 00:26:53 Yeah, they took all the community leaders and anybody, anybody with
any authority.PA: 00:27:00 Authority. Yeah. Yeah. So to the, you know, keep themselves being
accused of being, you know, favorable to Japan. And they, my dad would burn all the pictures and the records and this and that, you know, photos because he didn't want to be implicated. So he spent one--one night burning that stuff. Like you would normally would do if you committed a crime, even though we didn't commit any crime, you know. What are you going to do?AT: 00:27:41 That must've been very hard-
PA: 00:27:43 Yeah. [Pause]. But we were one of the lucky ones who got spared
'cause other -- other families had--had the father taken away. It was disorganized.AT: 00:28:08 So your-- your families got--got ready to leave and then your
family went to Santa Anita?PA: 00:28:19 Yeah.
AT: 00:28:20 And then Mrs. Kimura, where did your family go?
SK: 00:28:23 Over to Tule Lake, direct-- we didn't go to any assembly center, so
that's why we went in July. We were about the last section, last people to -- going to camp.AT: 00:28:40 What were your first impressions of--of Santa Anita and Tule Lake?
What were they like?PA: 00:28:49 Oh, Santa Anita is a racetrack, you know, so where we were, they
be- built army barracks out of the parking lot. So, since, you know, our family was seven of us, they put us right into the, those barracks, you know, brand new barracks and single people and couples or whatever it is, they put them into the stables, you know, where they kept Seabiscuit and all the--the asphalt, the asphalted floor and they put cots in there. And when it got warm the cots would sink into the asphalt, you know and the smell of the, you know, because they just paved over there and think of when it got hot, you smell the manure, or whatever it is. And they only had one light, you know, come out from the, from the--SK: 00:29:55 We're in the center of the room.
PA: 00:29:57 Yeah.
SK: 00:29:57 We were in the center of the room, yeah.
PA: 00:29:58 Well, that's all stables are like that.
SK: 00:30:00 One light?
PA: 00:30:00 They only have one light anyway. Yeah. So they had only one light.
It was bad for them.AT: 00:30:10 And so were you in a room with just your family?
PA: 00:30:12 Huh?
AT: 00:30:12 Were you in a room with just your family?
PA: 00:30:16 Yeah, they had, you know--they had this barrack and they sectioned
it off, you know, into thirds or whatever, you know. And we stayed in there well 'till we left for Poston, you know.AT: 00:30:37 And what were your first impressions of Tule Lake?
SK: 00:30:40 Tule Lake? The first thing was I never seen so many Japanese people
in my life. [Susie Kimura begins to laugh.]PA: 00:30:45 That's what I said--when I went to the train station, same thing. I
said, where the heck did these people come from [Both laughing] This is all the, you know, they would come from the county, they were farmers. So they came from San Diego County, you know. I said gee where did these guys come from? [Both laughing].SK: 00:31:06 Yeah-
AT: 00:31:06 And--and what was the arrangement for, for your family?
SK: 00:31:14 Well, it was almost the same thing, we had to meet at a certain
place. And then from there-- they brought us to the train station and we stayed on a train for one-- one and a half days or something like that before we went to Tule Lake.AT: 00:31:33 Had you ever been on a train before?
SK: 00:31:35 No. Never. Oh no. Well, I can't say never, they took--my folks took
me to Japan when I was five years old, so I got on a train and, but that part, I don't remember too, too much.AT: 00:31:55 And, what about the living situation at Tule Lake?
SK: 00:32:00 In Tule Lake? Well, they had just built our section in Tule Lake,
so, the water was hard and, when we went to latrine, it was all open. Everything was open. In the shower, you took shower, you know with everybody else. So it was kind of embarrassing, you know, but if you have to do it, you do it--AT: 00:32:30 And--and you had quite a large family--
SK: 00:32:32 Yeah, there were 10 of us yeah. So we got two rooms. So, the kids
had-- five of us was in one room. And the younger ones were with my mom and dad.AT: 00:32:50 What was the, the ages of, of your family? Like how old was the youngest?
SK: 00:32:55 Youngest was three and--
AT: 00:33:02 And, you had one sibling older than you who was there?
SK: 00:33:05 Yeah, my older brother, he was two and a half years older than I.
AT: 00:33:10 So 20? at the time?--
SK: 00:33:12 Yea, well he was in junior college. Yeah. Yeah.
AT: 00:33:16 Did he -- did he go with your family to Tule Lake?
SK: 00:33:19 Oh yea, we all went. That's one thing though, they kept the family together.
PA: 00:33:22 Yeah, that's nice.
SK: 00:33:22 That was kind of nice.
PA: 00:33:28 Yeah. When it took the father away, means everything is, you know,
fell onto the, the responsibility fell onto the kids and they don't know how to handle all that stuff, you know. Very disorganized.AT: 00:33:46 And did you two know other families or friends in camp?
PA and SK: 00:33:52 Oh yeah.
PA: 00:33:52 The ones that lived in town we knew and my dad probably knew some
farmers too because he had his, you know, men furnishings. So people come, you know, because that's one thing bad is that, you only have, only have Japanese customers, you know, and, so your ki-- clientele is kinda slim, you know, compared to if you could have a mixture of Caucasians and other nationalities. So--SK: 00:34:28 One thing that I think I could remember that was kind of nice was
that, they asked you would-- do you, you know, they didn't want to separate the family-- So who would you like to be near you or be with you or, or something of that sort. And, my--my brother--my father's younger brother was always with us, so my uncle was always together, you know, our uncle's family. And so my maiden name was Morimoto, so we put Morimoto, you know. So here comes, this is in the block, you know, in the camp, here comes my two cousins, Morimoto, right next to in the next barrack and we never--. And they were -- they were from Lodi, which is in the--way down, you know, further down and, so we were so surprised. But, you know I think they try to [inaudible] maybe to make you feel better or I don't know.AT: 00:35:46 What about school friends? Were any of your close friends from,
from growing up or friends from school--PA: 00:35:54 Yeah, yeah.
SK: 00:35:54 We were all, we were all separated in different barracks. Yeah.
AT: 00:36:01 But-- but you were in Tule Lake with?--
SK: 00:36:05 Yea, Tule Lake but all different blocks. So you know somebody was
way 10 blocks away or something. Yeah.PA: 00:36:20 Yeah, we made friends though that's the thing and we had more
chance to meet friends and girls and so.SK: 00:36:25 So, on--on, the farm you know, your neighbors are so far away.
PA: 00:36:38 Yeah.
SK: 00:36:38 So, we don't have too many friends. So my sister, my younger
sister, she said she never had so much fun in camp-- 'cause she didn't have to work, you know, and she got to make friends.AT: 00:36:59 And what about school? Did you continue going to school in camp?
PA: 00:37:03 Did we what?
AT: 00:37:03 Did you continue going to school?
SK: 00:37:08 There was nothing. Yeah, there was nothing after high school in camp.
PA: 00:37:12 I--they made me a manager of, well I was a go-go--gofer a job at
the school.AT: 00:37:25 I'm sorry you were, what did you do?
PA: 00:37:33 You know, I was like a gofer, you know, gofer this, gofer that. I
was supposed to be a manager or something. I worked for the school so--got minimum--minimum pay.AT: 00:37:46 And what did you do in camp? Did you work ?
SK: 00:37:49 Secretary or office work, yeah--
AT: 00:37:53 In what office?
SK: 00:37:56 Well, worked in block manager's office for awhile and also at the
administration office, yeah.AT: 00:38:02 So was there a manager for each block?
SK: 00:38:10 Yeah. Block manager.
AT: 00:38:11 And what was their role or duty?
SK: 00:38:14 Anything that the [inaudible]
PA: 00:38:19 Any complaints. You go to the manager. He supposed to-- supposed to
eradicate it [both chuckling] but they don't have no more power than anybody else.AT: 00:38:36 And, what other--what other memories do you have from camp? How was
the food?PA: 00:38:42 The food was terrible until, you know, later on the food got
better. But, I remember we had squid for about three or four days and they --SK: 00:38:54 And we never had squid. So each camp was different.
PA: 00:38:58 Yeah. You know, they had whatever was available that's what it was.
So they would cook the squids in different-different ways, you know, trying to get us to eat it. I don't think anybody ate it. [Both chuckling] So they would go to--so the parents would send their kids to the canteen. They had a canteen there, and they would buy whatever crackers or potato chips or whatever to supplement until the food got a little bit better, you know. But after a while everything, you know, the farmers, they adapted to camp life and they started making big plots of--and we started getting better food. So that was nice.SK: 00:39:46 Yeah, I remember.
PA: 00:39:49 Very industrious.
SK: 00:39:49 Yeah, I remember getting nothing but lamb and curry and they didn't
get it. In fact, when we went to Amache, Colorado, never had it. So each camp had different food.PA: 00:40:09 Depending on your small supplier.
AT: 00:40:13 So did you-you went to Amache after Tule Lake?
SK: 00:40:17 Mhm.
AT: 00:40:18 When was that?
SK: 00:40:20 I think a year later, after a year later, the only thing I could
remember is maybe like in September end of September or something, when they started-- people are, some people were called dissident. Then they divided us up. So my dad was, he had trouble with his leg and gangrene set in his leg. So you were able to pick what camp would you want to go-- Because Tule Lake was going to be dissident camp. So my dad said he wanted to go where it wasn't cold because of his leg. So he said he would like to go to Amache and that's where--PA: 00:41:18 That's cold air.
SK: 00:41:19 Yeah. It was cold. But it wasn't as cold as -- mountains --
AT: 00:41:22 So -- they gave your parents like a list or something of all of the
different camps?SK: 00:41:34 I guess that's what it is. Oh, my dad--you know, the Japanese style
is you don't tell everything to your kids. You're more or less the head of the family makes decide something and that's it. Right. And we follow--PA: 00:41:55 He's the authority.
PA: 00:41:57 At the camp though, the parents lost a lot of authority 'cause the
kids, and there was no discipline 'cause you know, you know, how camp life was. So they lost control of the kids, I don't know about you but I know our camp, you know, they had problems, the younger kids.SK: 00:42:18 The kids became more powerful than the parents because they
understood English and they knew what was going on and they were more stronger, you know, whereas the Isseis, they more or less--PA: 00:42:40 Well, they were older too. Most of them, most of them were in at
the-- period in life that they could you know, really take it easy, 'cause the kids were in high school, ready to go to college.SK: 00:42:56 Yeah.
PA: 00:42:58 It was hard on them. So it's pretty hard to get a good story from
the kids now 'cause they don't remember anything but having fun. [Both laughing]AT: 00:43:11 Would you two have gone to college after high school? Or do you
think you would've started working? If you weren't in camp-PA: 00:43:18 I don't know. I think for me, I think camp, camp life kind of made
me lose my ambition for anything. More or less.SK: 00:43:32 But after a year and a half or something when you could go out to
the college-- Yeah.PA: 00:43:37 Yeah. Well, they had the Quakers were helping out too.
SK: 00:43:42 Oh yeah?
PA: 00:43:43 A lot of kids who went out, and they financed their education. We
had a lot of-- nice people, you know, outside, but there were very few that [inaudible] and more of them. They had this problem.AT: 00:44:09 And then Mrs. Kimura, how long was your family at Amache?
SK: 00:44:11 Amache? Well, we were in Tule Lake oh about a year. And then the in
Amache until the camp closed, the day they left. My dad had his leg amputated in Amache so, they stayed on until, and then the people moved out, move out of the farm so they had no place to go. So they stayed until it's time to close up the camp. Yeah. But I, I came to Chicago in May of '24, May of '44AT: 00:44:57 And, how did--how did Amache compare to Tule Lake?
SK: 00:45:02 Oh, it was more, it wasn't more like camp anymore. It was, it was
more, they were more friendly. And it seemed as though, you know, people who were more friendlier and they had more activities and--and the food was entirely different. You know from camp.AT: 00:45:30 Was it any better than?--
SK: 00:45:33 Oh yeah. I was working at the office-- grammar school office. Yeah.
I think maybe five months, six months before I came.AT: 00:45:58 And then, so when, well so you went to Chicago before the war ended?
SK: 00:46:07 [Nods "Yes".] --That's right when they were--when people were going
out to colleges and then they had the--the draft, the draft thing? They came in and they wanted volunteers.PA: 00:46:27 Yeah.
SK: 00:46:28 Yeah. There's a lot of them that volunteered but then after that it
got open to wherever you wanted to go, we could go except for the West Coast.PA: 00:46:38 Yeah. And to be clear--
SK: 00:46:45 So I came to Chicago and my first job was $25 a week.
AT: 00:46:57 And, and how about you? When did you, did you leave? Well, did you
all leave with your families or did you leave before?--PA: 00:47:04 I left. My family stayed in camp and I--my sister went back to San
Diego to finish her college education and I went to fix up the house. You know, 'cause we had rented it, we were one of the lucky ones that was able to keep our house and so it was rented and we rented, rented it out. So, I went back to fix it up for my parents when they come back, so--AT: 00:47:41 You were able to go back to San Diego?
PA: 00:47:42 Oh yeah, I was cleared. I was cleared. I was cleared two times. One
time when I went to the camp he was in --where she was--where she was Tule Lake [pointing to Susie Kimura] to harvest, harvest the vegetables that they planted over there. They had a strike up there for some reason. I don't remember what it was.SK: 00:48:04 Yeah, they had a lot of strikes up there.
PA: 00:48:04 And so they-- so they went to the--to the other camps to--recruit
some workers to go up there and harvest. So a bunch of us younger guys went up there and we were threatened, we were threatened for coming up there [begins to chuckle] to do their work but we went out there.AT: 00:48:29 And then--and then where did you go from there? From San Diego--
PA: 00:48:35 I stay, well, I was--stayed there a couple of years and then I went
back east.AT: 00:48:42 Did your-- did your family come to join you in San Diego?
PA: 00:48:46 Oh yeah. They came back because I fixed the house up.
AT: 00:48:50 What year was that?
PA: 00:48:52 Well, '40, '44, '45, somewhere around there because they were
closing the camps up and throwing everybody out so--AT: 00:49:03 And then where did-- you said you headed east?
PA: 00:49:06 I went to New York and then stayed there a couple of years then and
then I come, came to Chicago and been here ever since.AT: 00:49:16 What year did you come to Chicago?
PA: 00:49:19 '48.
AT: 00:49:21 And what were you doing in New York?
PA: 00:49:23 What?
AT: 00:49:23 What were you doing in New York?
PA: 00:49:26 Oh, I worked for a place that made diamond rings and stuff. And
we--we, you know, we polished it, you know, we were making them.AT: 00:49:40 What were your first impressions of New York?
PA: 00:49:44 I liked New York, but I fooled around too much so, I decided to go
to Chicago.AT: 00:49:55 And so for both of you, your decisions to come to Chicago, did you
have family or friends here?PA: 00:50:03 He did--she did. Her family came to Chicago, right. [Paul Arakawa
turns to Susie Kimura] Your family came to Chicago?SK: 00:50:10 No--I was the only one.
PA: 00:50:10 Oh, you were the only one?
SK: 00:50:10 And my brother, yeah, my brother, my brother came with uh, Mills
Rose Garden. Did you hear of them? They were from, I think Chicago area, and I thought he came with one other block person and I don't know how he landed in, [inaudible], you know, 'cause, as far as I knew, he-- he went out with the-- the world's premier rose garden, you know, they were hiring workers and--and my girlfriend said, come on out, you know, to Chicago, so that's why I came out. Yeah. I came out from Amache, and the closest to that town from Amache was Chicago. And then when I came--PA: 00:51:14 Right in the middle--
SK: 00:51:15 Yeah. When I came, oh my God, it was so dirty, the--the paper and
everything was flying all over, you didn't see that? [Susie Kimura turns to Paul Arakawa to ask]. And then they told me, oh, the Chicago was the most segregated town. The Blacks could live here and they can go this far. And, I don't know how my girlfriend got a room. Well, she got a room on South Side, right by the church. Yeah. Where the church started, yeah.AT: 00:51:49 Is that BTC? Buddhist Temple of Chicago?
SK: 00:51:50 Yeah, about a block, block and a half away from there.
AT: 00:51:58 That's where you first lived?
SK: 00:51:59 [Nods "yes"] and Hyde Park area. And we had to take the L to work,
you know, to downtown And downtown wasn't that clean either, you know, but, but it's clean now. I mean, you know, I think they did a good job in cleaning up Chicago.AT: 00:52:29 And how did you end up in Chicago or why--why was Chicago the place
to come?PA: 00:52:36 I don't know, I just came here.
AT: 00:52:38 Did you know people?
PA: 00:52:39 I knew a couple people so--.
AT: 00:52:39 And what did you do when you got here?
PA: 00:52:51 Well, I ended up at the post office after a few years and that's
why I stayed.SK: 00:52:56 Chicago was one of the towns that, welcomed you, you know,
they--they wanted the workers. They were short workers so, they more or less , you know, welcome you.PA: 00:53:14 Yeah.
SK: 00:53:18 I think it's because a lot of the boys went into service and they
were short of help and--and I think that's where the Oriental fitted in.AT: 00:53:35 And which-- which part of the city or which neighborhood did you
first stay?PA: 00:53:46 Let's see. Well, I lived in-- moved to the South Side of--then Lake
Park, 4000 and Lake Park. And then I moved to the Lake, the Lakeview area. And then I got married and went to the South Side and then that was it. Then, moved out to the suburbs.AT: 00:54:17 What year did you move to Lakeview and then how long were you there?
PA: 00:54:21 Gee, I don't remember [pause] I don't --exactly remember--
AT: 00:54:21 What year did you move out of the city?
PA: 00:54:35 When did I move out of the city? Moved out in-- [pauses] Gee--'95,
I don't know exactly.AT: 00:54:52 And how about you Mrs. Kimura? When did you move from Hyde Park?
Where did you go from there?SK: 00:55:05 I went to housekeeping, you know babysitting so, that I could save
some money, you know, so I stayed with a Jewish family and took-- babysat for the kids and then worked during the day.AT: 00:55:24 Where did they live?
SK: 00:55:25 They lived in Rogers Park.
AT: 00:55:30 And then when--when did you move to the suburbs?
AT: 00:55:33 When I got married, my husband was gonna open up a TV, TV business
or something. So he had a place in Morton Grove, so--AT: 00:55:48 And so how did you two meet? How long have you known each other?
SK: 00:55:56 When did you get married? [Susie Kimura is asking Paul Arakawa.]
PA: 00:55:57 I got married in '58.
SK: 00:55:57 '58. That's how long---I know--because I'm related to his wife.
PA: 00:56:01 I married --I married her relative. So--
AT: 00:56:14 And what-- what's her name and how is she related to you?
SK: 00:56:18 This goes back way to my great, great, great, great grandma--
grandparents-- someplace along the line. So I think we're about what third, fourth, fifth cousins or something.PA: 00:56:31 Everybody was trying to figure that out. [Both laugh]
AT: 00:56:38 And when you came to Chicago, did you experience any kind of
prejudice or?--SK: 00:56:48 Oh yeah. Oh yeah. When I was walking to catch the L, I know some
guy said to go back to where you came from. [Both Kimura and Arakawa laugh] .Yeah. So I-- usually used to avoid everybody. You know, when I'm walking, if I see somebody, I would go on the next street or, or is it or so, so where am I gonna go? Huh? This is my country. But that wasn't, there weren't too many. But you know, every once in a while I met those people.AT: 00:57:41 And if you two could leave any kind of message or, or legacy with
your children and your grandchildren, what would you want to leave them with?SK: 00:57:54 Enjoy life. [Both Kimura and Arakawa laugh]
PA: 00:58:02 So far, you kids are doing pretty good.
SK: 00:58:04 Yeah. Yeah. [Pauses] They're Americanized. They're respected and
they don't get into trouble. And I think--I think I'm grateful that my kids aren't in a police list or something, you know, that they came out okay. Where you see all these other people who they go join the gangs and things. And I--I think the Oriental people did pretty good, you know.AT: 00:59:06 And anything you would want to leave your, your kids and grand-kids knowing?
PA: 00:59:09 What, what?
AT: 00:59:11 Anything that you would like to leave with your children and your
grandchildren or that you would want them to know?PA: 00:59:20 I'm leaving my money to them. [Both Kimura and Arakawa laugh]
SK: 00:59:20 Enjoy life.
PA: 00:59:30 They all got, you know good jobs--
SK: 00:59:33 They're doing real good, yeah.
PA: 00:59:35 Yeah, and they're not into drugs, or you know-- so, I'm happy about that.
AT: 00:59:43 Well, thank you so much for--for taking the time to speak with me.
Is--is there anything you'd want to add or that I might've missed in our conversation?PA: 00:59:58 I guess in a way, in a way, this incarceration was in a way it was
pretty nice, because everybody, you know, all the kids are able to get a job, what they went to college for. Because before they used to, finish college education and they couldn't get jobs so they would have to go back to the farm and work on a farm or whatever. Whatever parents whatever business their parents were in but now they can go to get jobs for they-- you know, what they went to college for. So that's the way I think it-- evacuation-- then we don't live in clusters like we used to, you know, the Japanese town. And I think that helped too. We were more, we was, you know, more or less assimilated into the society now than we were before so in a way that you know that evacuation kind of helped. Huh? [Arakawa turns to Kimura].SK: 01:01:21 I think without the evacuation, I don't think I'll be here.
PA: 01:01:24 Yeah.
SK: 01:01:24 I'd be still in California, I think, you know, which isn't bad, but
I mean, I don't like the climate here. But the people who were in--more friendlier here than they were back home. In our town.PA: 01:01:47 Yeah, I don't know. I think it's changed a lot though.
SK: 01:01:48 Yeah. [Long pause] I know my brother in law told me, he says-- his
father had a store and he says, no Japs around, you know , No Japs allowed or around or something like that. And--and when he came back and ran into him, he, apologized and he says I am so sorry. We have--my dad put that sign up. So I think that's a good thing.PA: 01:02:36 You know Dr. [inaudible]? [Arakawa is asking Kimura]
SK: 01:02:40 No.
PA: 01:02:40 'Cause he was real active in the JACL. He said, he said that,
he--he asked this Italian guy in town, how can I get more, you know, Caucasian customers, you know, because he's a, he was in dentistry, you know, only customers he has is Japanese. So he said he wanted to increase his clientele. So he asked this Italian guy, he's a lawyer and --young guy--asked him, you know, how he can get, you know, different clientele. So the, this guys says, oh, I'll look into that. So he went to the sons and daughters of the Golden West. He said he was shocked. He was shocked the way they, they characterized us. Yeah. So, so he still didn't get no new customers, because the funny thing that this guy learned that, you know, that there's such prejudice towards us. That was funny.AT: 01:04:02 Well, thank you so much again.
PA: 01:04:03 Okay. Sorry--[audio cuts off]
