Kagawa, Stephen (11/1/2017)

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Anna Takada: 00:01 So to start can you just state your full name?

Stephen Kagawa: 00:03 My name is Stephen Lincoln Kagawa.

AT: 00:08 Okay, and um, where, where are you from?

SK: 00:11 I'm from Hawai'i, actually I'm from Kaneohe, Hawai'i. That's where I grew up.

AT: 00:18 And then so to start can you tell me a little bit about um maybe your parents where, where they were from?

SK: 00:27 So my parents are both from Hawai'i. I'm actually a fourth generation American of Japanese ancestry and they're both from Hawai'i.

AT: 00:36 Do you know anything about your grandparents or your great grandparents.

SK: 00:37 Sure.

AT: 00:37 How they came to the U.S.?

SK: 00:41 Both, both sides of my family, both my mother and father's side come from Hiroshima. And we we speak mostly about my father's side in typical Japanese form. And so my great grandfather boarded the SS [Bintala?] from Hiroshima to actually Draft Harbor of Yokohama, to come to the Kingdom of Hawai'i under the contract that was established between the monarchy in Hawai'i and of course Japan. And, and so he landed on Kohala Coast which is a big island of Hawai'i. And found his way to his new life his new dream which ended up being the irrigation canals they were bringing that, they were bringing the water down from the mountains of the big island to the parched land below that they were trying to harvest sugarcane.

AT: 01:41 That was your?

SK: 01:42 That was my dad's side. My mother's side is a little bit less talked about, um and so I don't know the actual year in which he had he made his way and I'm getting some of that information, which is a typical situation that you all have generations after the fact, to sort of gather the real facts. In fact a lot of stories even about my my great grandfather and the place where we come from, and what the family did, was unknown. In fact put into books with improper facts as I was, as I visited Hiroshima and learned that my family was not rice farmers which we thought we were, but actually were from fishing villages. So you know you don't have rice paddies in fishing villages. So we think, every day, or I should say every day, but on a regular basis to this day we're learning about past history which has been quietly packed away like a treasure chest, right? That we just learning bits and pieces about.

AT: 02:52 Is there anyone in your family that is mostly responsible for doing that work?

SK: 02:57 Yeah me.

AT: 03:00 You, you're the family historian?

SK: 03:00 I've actually become the family historian because it was actually a big book that was being written on my, my father. And my father, I was really focusing on my grandfather because of what he did in the life insurance, insurance industry. Because my grandfather was one who as a Nisei, you know, decided that as an American he wanted to be really an American. And he thought and fought for justice. And he was working in a trust company and he found that the community in Hawai'i which is predominantly Asian at the time, did not have the opportunities that their Caucasian neighbors had in reaching out for family security through life insurance industry. So the life insurance policies that you have access to were not of the same price, and and he thought that was unfair. And according to the life insurance companies the reason was they were looking at the mortality statistics from the country of the national origin. And so you can imagine Pre-World War II how maybe morality was a little different in the countries like Japan and others. And so my grandfather set out to, to look at the mortality statistics of the territory of Hawai'i, Hawai'i was not a state for a long time. But wouldn't be a state for a long time from that point. Um and partnered with AP Giannini who founded the Bank of America and a small little life insurance company. And so the two of them got together and sort of abolished those discriminatory practices. And you know that's that's sort of my my grandfather's rise to fame and I'm sorry because I can't remember exactly what the question was it took me down that path but.

AT: 04:58 Oh about family historian.

SK: 05:01 So, so, but anyways, so. So you're asking about historian, right. So, so um, they were writing a story about that. And my father focusing in on that story and then elaborating going backwards and then going forwards, really on my grandfather's story. And as we went backwards to, to, to understand my grandfather's experiences going as a, going back to Japan to learn the Japanese culture. Of course, coming back from Japan to actually open the first hotel in Kahului, Maui called the Kalau Hotel that actually opened my great grandfather. So he could operate it, my grandfather could operate it you know. And and it's just amazing, as we kept going backwards, how little we knew, you know. And my father was not so well, as he was going through the book, and had to rely on other people. And so as I read the book and I started to read and put faces to the names and checked out the stories. It didn't seem right. And there was a lot of things that really derived out of just out of ignorance. And so you fill a gap with something and that story sort of compiles and blossoms into something that really didn't happen. And I thought that really wasn't fair. You know fair to the people who are written up in the book, right? And the people that would read it, to you know, because history should be captured in a certain way, certainly it's personal, right, because it's their personal experiences their personal reflections and their personal observations about what those stories might be. But you know as as a as a is my father's son I want to make sure that my father's stories about my grandfather's stories and his father's stories and the families and you know everybody else, in between, that would be reflected at least in factual format when we involved history itself and the people that touched us through throughout that period of time. So it's been an incredible journey, that I'm still learning and continue to learn. And I'm very fortunate because of what I'm doing, that I do have the opportunity to learn from places like this, Alphawood, right? And this amazing exhibition that you have.

AT: 07:27 Have you done any of that kind of work, pertaining to your mom's side?

SK: 07:32 So yeah we just just started to do it. And my,, my mother my mother discounts a lot. Like a, she's also, well, she's Nisei, and my father's Sansei. So I guess three point five. Right? But of course we again look at the father's side. So I'm Yonsei, and, and so that's how we do it, certainly in Hawai'i that's how we do it. So my, mother discounts it and she discounts it because well there's a lot of reasons you know a lot of it's culturally, right? How they were brought up. She was the youngest child, in the family. And she discounted it because she's on Maui. She discounts it because of, because they were not involved in the camps. She discounts it because they were also not involved in World War II, fighting as Nisei soldiers, as part of Go for Broke or for 442nd, or any of the regiments around that. So, so I'm sort of embarrassed you know because I was struggling to try to dig up the treasure that's behind, you know, behind her stories, behind the the path and journey that the Yamashta, that she's a Yamashta, we say Yamashita in Hawai'i. And, and uh, you know, and I really want to get to know that better, so.

AT: 08:58 And uh, so can you tell me a little bit more about your, your family's experiences during the wartime?

SK: 09:10 During the war. So yeah it's um. Well, my grandfather was the first leader of the Chamber of Commerce, the Japanese Chamber of Commerce in Hawai'i. First Nisei leader. And um, so, when the war broke out, um my, my grandfather was rallying the business community together. And of course as loyal Americans they were, because Nisei were fighting to be Americans, right? And um Issei, a lot of them were still holding onto, they were Japanese and, and um, you know, so there was a lot even in business, there was a lot of tension in Hawai'i, of course, is where they were. And tensions between Issei and Nisei because the Nisei really wanted to be American and, and move forward in that, and um, the Issei were still sort of holding onto that history and it makes all the sense in the world. But of course the Issei were also promoting the fact that you know there, here was the children that born American. And so, so um and there was no, um, you know, doubt of the loyalty that my grandfather actually on that day was supposed to go golfing. And so he's a little bit older. So um and so he was pretty surprised when he comes out of his door and and he sees the puffs of smoke going on um and, and, and that's what I know of that day. My my grandfather was there, well, you know, first helping the FBI "supposedly," quote unquote. And there are a number of things that people were doing, and he of course, as a business leader, was being asked to round up, and, and, and sort of keep the peace, if you will, amongst one another. No one knew what's going to happen, but no one ever thought they would be deemed enemy aliens, and to lose their rights. And certainly no one thought that during World War II, or after the bombing, that the camps would ever come about, right. And of with 120,000 Japanese Americans in Hawai'i, I mean that's Hawai'i. I'm not talking about the 120,000 that actually made their way to the camps from the West Coast. But, but that was an ominous task for the authorities to say, you know, we better sequester this whole group. So no one was really in fear of that of anything of that nature occurring. Um so, so it was shocking when, uh when finally my grandfather was visited and then taken away. And he was taken away to a detention center in Hawai'i and that detention center is called Sand Island in Sand Island. And there was, there were actually a number of um camps were actually were found after the fact. Most of the, most of the detained were, were considered enemies, right. And we're actually again quote quote considered "war criminals." They're not they were not the typical war relocation effort type you're Japanese American and therefore you have Japanese blood and therefore you should go. Um, so so uh as you, many people as I did well, as I finally learned later, you know, the target was towards those that had come and gone to Japan, to learn the Japanese way, whatever that meant. And also of course religious leaders. And and then some of the business leaders, if not, were, were targeted in Hawai'i. And so my grandfather being a business leader and the same time having gone to Japan for some schooling was, was targeted. So he ended up being in Sand Island and then eventually made his way through that whole process and he ended up in Jerome, Arkansas. The family then relocated to be with him. And so my father who was geez, he must have been eight years old or so, along with his older sisters, his four older sisters, I'm sorry three older sisters and a younger sister. And they they all went off to Jerome. So you know we're fortunate because unlike the pictures you see and the that captured the realities of that time in uh, especially in the West Coast, where everything was stripped from them. The other belongings and you loot. People losing their farms and their businesses and then selling things at pennies on the dollar. You know we were blessed because my my grandfather was very very important to to Mr. Giannini and Mr. Giannini was very very powerful. And so because of that much of what we had in Hawai'i was, was okay, was kept. It's amazing what happens during the war though you know I finally received the FBI files under the Freedom of Information Act and you can see the question and answer and the, the spin that's taken, whenever you received, whenever, you know, the FBI received an answer from my grandfather, um it's shocking. And as an American, as a, as I believe in America, when I read it I wonder, is it a farce, you know, is this truly what's behind the curtain? Or has the time really gone away? Because I know that my family felt very secure before the war broke out. So it's, I don't want to feel that way. But, but as I read through that time, World War II, it's quite amazing. And on top of that, when you have assets, suddenly your friends become your enemies. And, and, you know, you didn't see that in on the West Coast or the ones that moved into the camps or were brought to the concentration camps there, we call them concentration camps. But in Hawai'i because Hawai'i didn't have those camps. Um now they're trying to figure out who's the enemy, right? And think about it, you're in business and you're in competition with somebody, what a great opportunity, when called on by the FBI, to go ahead and take down your competitor. And I saw an amazing number of letters and, and all the evidence that points to families that actually today are our friends, you know it's just amazing what happens during War. So, so I guess, that's probably a story that most people don't hear, you know, that even within our own community we were taking advantage of each other. It was just a different dynamic in Hawai'i as opposed to the West Coast.

AT: 16:48 And you said you learned about that through reading old letters, of evidence of that happening?

SK: 16:54 Yes, my grandfather kept all of his letters. And his first daughter was his secretary and so captured many of it. Beautiful, beautiful letters, um, English letters. But also in the FBI files, when you did a trial, there are witnesses, okay. And so, so there was literally some research done, right, because they had to decide which one of these potential criminals really belonged, you know, in camp. And so that's how when you read through those files and through the FBI files you see who stepped up you understand what it was about. I learned a lot of business things that my grandfather was doing that never would have known. I don't think my father even knew my father was so touched by it and so emotionally involved even doing his book writing that he had requested the files but um and so, I knew had requested it. So I thought he had read it and passed it on to his writers and whatnot. Well, um we were cleaning out his office and we found the unopened envelope, right, from years past, years before and I opened it up and it just astounded to see, my father would have been crushed, if he had read through that. And just because I know that he called many of these people that were on there, friends, and it's just amazing what things happened. But it's also amazing how we can forgive, right, how we can, how that community, you know, my grandfather I have so much respect as I read that file as to the fact that he never fought against them, you know, certainly publicly, not publicly in business, even though I'm sure his struggle was there you know that his considered friends and allies would turn against him in this time of need really, right? You know, when you're being hauled away. So um it's remarkable.

AT: 19:05 You had mentioned something that when you're talking about getting the FBI files on your grandfather, the actual interrogation, is that right?

SK: 19:15 Yes.

AT: 19:17 And I'm not going to get this right that you're mentioning, how in reading that over, um you, it sounded like you had your own doubts about just kind of the U.S. Can you talk a little bit more about that, and maybe what you're actually seeing in those files, that made you feel that way?

SK: 19:42 Well, if you've already been. Well, I guess it's a simple way of. That's a great question. I I I probably never ever articulated what I just said to you that you captured. And I suppose, I suppose it's like you watch or you talk to somebody and they're being really nice to you and you think the world of them. And yet behind it they're, they're actually steering you towards you know a very bad place. And maybe that's called prison whatever you want to call what some call internment camps and others consider concentration and I think if you really look at the true definition it's concentration camp is certainly not a death camp. Like I don't want to even go there, you know. But when you look at the questions and answers it's really the questions and the follow up questions to the questions or the follow comment to the question that whatever you say to me I will turn it around so that it works for me, right? So I'm really directing you and driving you to what I want you to have met in whatever words you use to say whatever you say, so that you are absolutely validated you're validating my assumption of your guilt, right? Because I've already decided you're guilty. This is just a process to ensure that I have file that proves it. And I'm gonna make sure that it's there. And so it's pretty interesting because, you know, you see where the censorship was. And so initially I guess however they did it, they censored certain names and and bits and pieces so you have these black splotches everywhere, right? And that was done in between, right, the time of the interview throughout incarceration, after incarceration, integration back into community, right? And, and of course, ultimately to the Freedom of Information Act. I don't, there's the other question in my head, when did these blackouts occur, you know? How recent were they? How long ago were they? How purposeful were they? You know, clearly they were purposeful, right? I can't imagine they doing it to 120,000 people. But you know when you have fear driving things and, and a decision made that everyone is guilty, you know, we, we become sort of processed right? And and I that's where my fear is that if I if government decides that a people are guilty, right, then will we do it again? Right? Will, are we, going to direct the the answers, or the questions towards the answers that we need to hear to justify our files, to justify our actions, right? That are represented within those files. And that's the part that makes me fearful, because I think anyone can do that. You know, I watch it in my own business, you know businesses. You know as people sort of, um you know, take people down a path that they want, they need them to go in order to get to wherever they want to get to. That's really what I'm fearful of.

AT: 23:19 Um I want to come back for that, but first tell me a little bit about what happened after camp?

SK: 23:31 After camp, yeah. So, so yeah I've still, actually I'm still really learning about that. It's a, that's a great question. I know my grandfather, see my grandfather was older. So he's too old to fight, right. So he didn't, he wasn't part of the of the 442nd or the MIS or any of that. And he was, you know my my father was too young to fight. So my grandfathers to old, my father's too young. My grandfather does go back to work with the Relocation Authority, out of Des Moines. And so, so not out of Chicago, not, you know, but out of Des Moines. And, and, and um that's also remarkable when, when I consider the story that I really know really well. We I know that they go to Des Moines and I know ultimately that he goes back to Hawai'i, because they have a huge operation for, for what's now known as Transamerica. And so so he does go back. But, but not right away. So my father's enrolled in school and you know he's walking, he's a, he's a, he's a young kid, now he's probably about 9, 10, 11, 12 years old and one day, he's coming back from school, a big group of kids come and harass him all the way home. And that happens several days. And he's expecting again on the next week and another big group of guys come running down, and it's the Boy Scouts and a bunch of Boy Scout troop walks him home and does that every day for him. So you can imagine the effects that that love you know that protection meant to a person like my father, right, who was afraid because, you know, everyone is calling him out, he's a young kid. He doesn't know why, right? You know, and he just doesn't look the same as them, right? And that really affected him. My father actually became the first Japanese American to earn the Silver Buffalo which is the highest award given to a civilian, even to a person in from the Boy Scouts in the same year that President Clinton was awarded his. And you know, I'm very proud of that. But that just shows you how affected, deeply affected, appreciable, appreciate, how much he appreciated, for his life, right? And for hope that, that there are people that truly understand that we really are one. And so, so probably of all the things that come out of the camps and in that, in that, you know, transition back into, reintegration, back into into life was some of the really I mean more pointed, you know, things that happened and recollections. But we don't have, you know, the family was quiet and the family gets back into the community. And my my father's siblings all sisters, marry very well. The top attorney's firm, at the top this and top. It's amazing how after World War II in this state of Hawai'i, what became the state of Hawai'i, how amazingly, how can I say? Focused the Japanese community was to reestablish in Hawai'i and then make a difference, to be leaders in community and business, right, in politics. And so you can go back to the Senator Inouye, Sparky Matsunaga, you know, as a politicians, that that rose. You can look at the business owners that are out there the banks that arose because of that time like Central Pacific Bank was built because of the Nisei Veterans. And so the whole reality of that world, you know, was, was changing. Becoming, maybe becoming much stronger because of that, that whole time. So, yeah.

AT: 27:57 I want to be sure to ask you about, your different positions with Go For Broke and JANM. And if you could just talk a little bit.

SK: 28:05 Thank you.

AT: 28:05 About how you got involved and you know, and where that desire to get involved came from?

SK: 28:07 So today, I have the great honor and privilege to be on two amazing, actually three amazing national organizations within the community. And there's a, there's a major reason for each one. So let me start with Japanese American National Museum. Um I didn't know about the camps. Here we just talked about it and I'm still learning every day. And I had to learn because I, I witnessed a presentation to the State of Hawai'i, the leadership in the state of Hawai'i. And to go to the school and I went to I went to a very expensive private school. My classmate became the president of the United States. And I never heard the story. My family was incarcerated, one of only 800 of 120,000, only 800 in Hawai'i, from Hawai'i. And I never heard about it. I played in the backyard and so played in the backyard and with G.I. Joe, and and was yelling Go for Broke didn't even know where that came from you know and to learn at a function about my own parents' history was not only embarrassing but it was shocking, that it was shocking to the core because here I was true blue America, American. I truly, truly believe in the tapestry that all of the country's representative make for this amazing filtered right through all the take out the bad bring in the good and that's how I felt, America was all about. And so to learn that way, just told me that, the stories needed to be told. They had to be in schools, they have to be beyond our insulated family and our communities. And because you know because of all the things that you know you've heard, right? And Go For Broke and I have the honor today to serve on that board as well. JANM I'm a trustee and at Go For Broke today, I serve as a chair. I was never going to be a part of that organization, but it was because of a beer party that I went to that I was mesmerized by what it all meant. That here was the most highly decorated unit in military history coming out of the camps, coming from bombed Hawai'i. And to go on and fight for the country that put them behind barbed wire, put my family behind barbed wire. That again that I didn't know that, right? That I didn't realize that the people around me were heroes. Heroes not only to myself but to the United States because of what they represented because of what they did because what they believed in. And again, I not knowing this amazing story had to again get beyond our community. And why I didn't want to initially be a part of that was I had nobody that went to War. And these were clubs. It was a club that was just honoring the many who served. And, and, and, and I told the leadership at the time, you know, I'd love to come on the board if it goes national and it's education. If it's nationally focused on education to provide that, based upon the stories, the voices of those that actually served that I could actually experience, so that they might touch the values, our values, to the core. Really, let us question ourselves because of the experiences they had, that that was worth being a part of. And, and so Go For Broke became a coveted place to be for me when they said Stephen we're going national, and we're going because of you, so get on this board. And, and then the third one is a U.S. Japan Council. And, you know, Irene Hirano Inouye, is the one that leads that organization even to this day. She's also the founding executive of the Japanese American National Museum. And why is that such an important organization to me, is because, it's about connecting people to people. And Japanese Americans first to be identified and collected of note across around the country. And then of course to connect with country of our ancestral home. You see, that was a travesty of that time. When War broke out, families had to decide whether they were going to stay here or go back home, right? And, and it disconnected us. When we got out of the camps, the Japanese Americans were fighting to be American, they did not want to be considered Japanese. They were told to go an integrated, integrate and they did. Right. And so we didn't know that so-and-so was achieving certain things in this place or that place. And and we didn't stay connected with the Japanese because the Japanese were occupied by America, and the Japanese wanted to be American. And they started to tie in with with America beyon, beyond the Japanese Americans the ones that left before them you know? And so there's this huge disconnect that took place. And so um U.S. Japan Council becomes extremely important because finally, finally we're holding hands again. We're finally learning about each other, to understand and appreciate our differences. Right? And and so that we can engage like every other community represented here in the United States. And that's just a travesty of war. And so so I am so very blessed to be on that path to help bring that understanding and appreciation. And what better time than now, right? Where we have this real true globalization taking place. The realization that where we come from and where we go to, it's so much easier to do and yet we stand on shoulders where we step towards, right? There's footprints left behind, but absolutely there are footprints before us. And so so I think it's incumbent upon people upon people like myself who can't be a part of this driving force to bring it beyond the whispers of our own homes and to share it. So that might learn and do better in the future make better decisions. That's really, really important.

AT: 35:01 In your opinion, what are, what are some of the lessons that need to be taken from, um, the experiences of World War II? And what kind of responsibilities or obligations to Japanese Americans, have toward that history?

SK: 35:25 Yeah, I think some of us, I think all of us have a different sort of viewpoint. You can imagine it's not about alienating anybody um that's unintelligent. You know we don't we don't uh retaliate with anger because of something that happened to us. And yet it's because things happen to us, we have we do have an obligation of responsibility, I suppose you could say, to share those stories. Because the decisions we make have rippling effects that go beyond the immediate. And we really have to think about who we want to be as as a country, who want who we want to be as individuals. What kind of people we should be. And by looking at the way that the Japanese Americans responded during their, at that time, and to hear the individual stories, especially from their own voices I think is the greatest way to be able to to hear unencumbered by the voices of others today the opinions of others to hear what they went through, because they went through it. To hear how they dealt with it. And to and to ask ourselves, you know, would I do it this way? And should I do it that way? And it doesn't matter whether I think you're a politician or you're a victim, right? A targeted community, or someone that's just judgmental, you know. We really need to know, and, and we really need, I mean, people really need to know that when we, in the face of fear, you know, we really need to be careful as to getting ahead of ourselves perhaps because a travesty ripples forever, so but. You know you ask that question, it's a, it's a, it's a tough one right? Because social injustice is such a huge part of what I think democracy is supposed to be fighting against. And to be able to appreciate our differences is sometimes a very difficult thing. And yet of all the places in the world America is a place that should celebrate it and share the beauty of it and not become what we despise because of our feelings, right? It's tougher sometimes to to face things like bigotry and hate. But I think if you can give bigotry and hate the true outcomes of what that can lead to and they, and people learn from that. And that's a big thing. That's a great thing. And so I'm very hopeful that as you ask what the community should do that the community will do and I'm so happy that they are doing. You know, if responding to, to what happened after 9/11 you know responding to some of the commentary that's coming out because of the quote unquote "nationalism" that takes place. And but those voices are important too. And so I think that the most important part is to be able to share that experience because we've had it.

AT: 39:02 Well, thank you so much ?for coming in and seeing the show, and speaking with me here. Before we completely wrap up is there anything else you'd like to add, or that I might have missed?

SK: 39:14 Yeah. Yeah, I want to add one other thing and I missed, I missed two things and I want to share one very, very important one. And that is I said I'm proud to be part of three national organizations. And I guess the question the national organizations have to ask themselves is: What does it mean to be national? And what I really believe is that it's about being local and that the regional regions and the locations around the country have so many varied experiences. What happens in Hawai'i and what happened in Hawai'i is very different from from the West Coast, which is very different from here in Chicago, right? I mean Hawai'i was bombed, they were angry. You know, they wanted to fight, you have everything that is taken away from you. In California on the West Coast you know it's a very different dynamic. You're herded like cattle behind barbed wire you know? In Hawai'i you're fighting to try to be a part of the war you know. And everything else in between. And so what you're doing here at Alphawood, right? By sharing the story and bringing in your part of the story, right, is I think phenomenal. And us as an organization, us, when I say us, the boards that I serve on the organizations that I serve I really need to be a part of this this effort and to make sure that we are contributing to the extent that we can. And I know there's time frames and I know there's all those kinds of things but it's really truly an admonition I think, to myself. Talking about responsibility that I would have to learn from somebody from an industry organization that isn't a book club who is part of another organization that worked with your leadership to learn about what's happening right here in Chicago on the very community, right, that and stories, a set of stories that were supposedly capturing on a national basis. So god bless Densho, Tom Ikeda at Densho, because he can do that because of the way his venue works and he's fabulous. But um I, I hope that you have more just con, confidence in all of us because we should be sharing that voice. And I'm really anxious to to do more, with organizations like Alphawood, because I think this is a great forum I'm looking at the people walking in your doors and I'm looking at the people looking at the photos and I'm looking at the people that's engaging with you wanting to share with you more. And I'm reminded of what happened the first we first started the efforts in Southern California as an example, and how the same thing sort of happened it's very different, you know the way it's been captured today. But it's people like yourselves that's going to take it beyond the borders beyond the borders of our own again communities that have kept this silence, right? And, and um it's, it's really an amazing, I think um if you really look at it, the journey of the Japanese Americans captured in three generations, right? The fight for immigration and citizenship to be challenged and to lose it, right? To come back and be the most celebrated and decorated, is, is just phenomenal. A phenomenal, I think, reflection of what the beauty and travesty of democracy can, can be. And, and so I really I just honor what I've seen today here at Alphawood, I need to say, that's the second part I want to say. And so god bless all of you then. It's good stuff.

AT: 43:08 Thank you so much.