Kanemoto, Neil (11/15/2017)

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Anna Takada: 00:00:00 To start, can you just state your full name?

Neil Kanemoto: 00:00:02 Um, I am Neil Kanemoto. My middle name: Yoshio um, but uh, I don't use that. Um, the only time I've really heard it in my life, is one of my father gets mad at me and when I was growing up and he would, when he's gets, gets mad at me, he would always say, "Yoshio!," um, but otherwise, that's the only time anybody has ever addressed me by my middle name.

AT: 00:00:28 Okay. And, um, can you tell me a little bit about where and when you were born?

NK: 00:00:33 I was born on September 20th, 1943, at the Tule Lake internment camp in, uh, northern California.

AT: 00:00:45 And, um, where, where were your parents originally from?

NK: 00:00:53 Um, my parents, were from Seattle, Washington. Um, my, grandparents, I guess came to the United States in about 19, the early 1900s before 1910. Um, my father's family, my father and his wife moved to Seattle and, uh, he opened a barbershop there. My mother's parents got married in the United States. My grandmother was a picture bride and they settled in Tacoma, Washington. And, uh, my grandfather, my matur- maternal grandfather owned a meat market there. And my mother worked in the meat market there in Seattle and that's where my parents met, in Sea- in Tacoma.

AT: 00:01:54 Okay. And, um, do you have any siblings?

NK: 00:01:59 Uh, I have two sisters. Janice, who was a year older than me and Jane who was two years younger than me. I had a older brother, Bobby, who, he was born in 1937 in, uh, Seattle. And he died in 1944 in camp in Minidoka.

AT: 00:02:32 Um, so that means that you were the third child?

NK: 00:02:37 in the birth order I was number three, yes.

AT: 00:02:42 Um, okay. And then, um, do you, can you tell me what you know about, um, what happened to your parents and your family around the time that the war broke out?

NK: 00:03:05 At the time the war broke out, my parents, while they got married in 1936, um, they lived in Seattle, Washington. My father worked for a dry goods company called Furuya and Company. Um, where they sold dry goods basically. They lived in Fuji Hotel during, in that, those few years before the war. When the war broke out, they were sent to the Pinedale relocation center in, by Fresno, California. Or I guess it's actually in Fresno, California. And they were there until they were sent to, Tule Lake. My sister Janice was born in the Pinedale camp in 1942. After, um, my older sister was born, they finished their construction of camp and we were sent then to, Tule Lake and I was born there. About two months after the, um, I was born, we moved from Minidoka to- from Tule Lake to Minidoka. And I guess that was the point at which the Tule Lake was being filled up with the No-No Boys, the uh, supposedly the hardcore resistors to the, um, to the internment. Uh, so they were the, the former, uh or the people that were in Tule Lake were given an option to either stay there or move to other camps. So, um, we, our family moved to Minidoka.

AT: 00:05:07 And so at that time it was your parents and the three young children, is that right?

NK: 00:05:14 Uh, yes. And then in 1944 a year after I was born, then my brother died of illness so. They called it blood poisoning. But uh, at that point they didn't have the antibiotics and medicines to take care of him. So he passed in camp.

AT: 00:05:39 Um, do you know how long was your family, um, in each of these places, when

NK: 00:05:48 I think they were in Tule Lake for about a year. They were in Minidoka for a couple of years. Now my, in Minidoka my grandparents were there as well as my uncles, two uncles, uh, they were there also. My grandfather was quite a adventure-type guy. And, uh, he left camp early. He left camp in 1944 before most of the people, uh, well most of the people were still in camp, I guess. Uh, if you go east or away from the Pacific states, you can, people are allowed to leave. Uh, he, since he owned a business and he was fairly well-to-do at that point. He had a car that a neighbor kept for them. And so he, with his car, he and my grandmother decided to look for a place somewhere to live for the family. So he took off east and went across the country, went through Chicago, went to the east coast, up and down the east coast, down even down to Florida, looking for different places. I, um, and then he, uh, decided that Chicago was the place, uh, the best place for the family to be. So he went to Chicago and set up residence there and, uh, going to war when people were, most of the people were leaving camp, he called for the rest of the family to come. And that's how we got to Chicago in, uh, late 1945.

AT: 00:07:48 Wow, so he toured around for a bit before making...

NK: 00:07:48 Yeah, I think he, for about six months, he, uh, he went around the country and looked at different places and...

AT: 00:07:59 Do you have any idea of sense of how he was able to fund a trip like that, did he have some savings or?

NK: 00:08:01 I think he had enough savings. Um, he was very fortunate in, with his business, his meat market. And, uh, he had a very good neighbor, um, the Wunders. He always talked about the Wunders and uh, they bought the business from him with apparently a reasonable price, not, not a giveaway, kind of a price. And they actually stored his belongings and kept his car and they were good fam- close family friends. So, uh, with his money that he had from his business and from, and his car and he was able to, I guess do pretty well with his cross country journeys.

AT: 00:09:01 And um, to clarify, this was your mom's father?

NK: 00:09:05 Yes.

AT: 00:09:07 Um, and as far as, um, so of course you were very young when you were in camp. Um, where, where are your first memories?

NK: 00:09:22 When we moved to Chicago, well when, when the war ended, I was basically an infant. So I have no recollection, no memories at all. Uh, when we moved to Chicago, my grandfather bought a three-flat building in Douglas Park on Kedzie, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, not Kedzie, um, Albany Avenue and about 13th Street. Um, and it was a three story building. And my grandparents lived on one floor, we lived on another floor, and my uncles lived on the third floor. Um, that's where my first childhood memories are. And I have uh, we moved from there when I, when I was still four years old. But I have a few memories, uh, of that. And so that's...

AT: 00:10:15 And I want to ask you more about that, but, um, before we move on to some of these Chicago experiences, um, were there any kind of, um, stories that you often heard about camp or kind of like a family collective memory about camp?

NK: 00:10:41 Um, camp was, uh, it was not a taboo subject, like in some families where they refused to talk about it, but they did talk about camp and the way, it wasn't in a negative tone. So it was more like just a, a move, you know, like to a different town or something. And I did hear stories later about, uh, you know, it wasn't about the mess hall and the how to do the laun- how they did the laundry and the lack of privacy in the bathrooms and things like that, uh, the dust that was always present. But it wasn't, uh, spoken of as a real negative kind of an experience. It was just something that had to be endured. Um, the term I'm sure everybody uses is shitaka ga nai, you know, 'can't be helped'. Um, the internment, you know, there was a war going on. They were required by the government to, to relocate inland. And, uh, they did you as, but wi- without protest. Uh, they didn't particularly like it, but they didn't rebel against it.

AT: 00:12:01 And so, um, so as you were growing up, um, as a child in Chicago it was something that you were always aware of?

NK: 00:12:12 Oh yeah. Yeah, always aware of. That, uh, and the talk among the, at least the adults, the older generation, my grandparents' and my parents' generation, you know, the first question is 'what camp were you at' and you know, this kind of thing. And if they were from the same camp, you know, the question, the next question, 'what block were you from in the camp', and, uh, you know, 'who did you know in the camp, you know, that we know' that kind of thing. Um, but I don't know if I just answered your question.

AT: 00:12:51 Did you ever do that? As you said, that was generally the older folks. Did you ever find yourself doing that?

NK: 00:12:56 Well, yeah. Um, it's, in my generation, uh, at least the older, the people that were born before the war ended, they were all from camp. So, you know, the question was, oh, 'where, where were you from,' you know, we'd say Tule Lake or Minidoka or Jerome or wherever, whatever camp. Um, in 1940, uh, after '45, uh, the people, the Japanese, younger people were all born here, so they were all from Chicago. So there wasn't anybody else from any other town that you know, because they, they were all here. And then as I was growing up, a lot of those, my young Japanese friends, their families moved back from Chicago to the west coast. Where, after they worked a little bit and got some money and things were a little bit more settled, in, on the west coast and they moved. So I lost quite a few friends who moved back to the west coast to, either to California or to Washington state.

AT: 00:14:09 What age range would you say that happened around like, how old were you when, this time?

NK: 00:14:16 Um, that was starting in the late 1950s to, for a period of about 10 to 15 years.

AT: 00:14:27 Um...

NK: 00:14:28 And that after that time, people be, got, their families became more settled and it was harder for them to, uh, relocate because their children were in school, their jobs were established, their homes were, you know, they already purchased homes since it was just more difficult to move.

AT: 00:14:49 Um, so going back to the three-flat that your grandfather had purchased...

NK: 00:14:52 Yes.

AT: 00:15:00 Can you, can you tell me what, what you do you remember about it?

NK: 00:15:05 Yeah, uh, my grandparents lived in the, on the first floor. My uncles lived, one of my uncles lived in the basement. I can't remember everything about it. I remember it was, uh, in an area that was rapidly changing racially, it, before it was a Jewish area. And most of the Jewish people had left, but there was still one on the corner, a block away. There was a kosher, um, market where they sold live chickens. And I remember my grandmother used to go in there and, to get the chickens. And whenever I went with her, I thought it was the worst smelling place I ever was in. It was, smelled horrible. What, I remember that, I remember the smell of that. Um, I remember in the backyard, um, there was a telephone wire or electric wire going across the yard. And apparently there was a squirrel up there who fell and it fell down and, and hit the sidewalk. And, uh, I looked at this dead squirrel and first off, for some reason, I can't forget that dead squirrel. I was, I was kind of shocked, uh, and that's the first time I think I ever saw anything dead. Um, my grandmother was quite a, since she worked in the meat market too, the sight of blood or anything didn't bother her, so she picked up the dead rat and opened her, got, uh, put it in the garbage. Uh, there were rats in the neighborhood. And so she set out rat traps and, and to her, removing the dead rats out of that rat trap was no big deal for her or, you know, to me, I was aghast. I, you know, I the thought of touching a dead animal was [laughs] uh, really scary to me.

AT: 00:17:16 Um, do you know what kind of work, um, your family members started picking up once they were here? Your grandparents and...

NK: 00:17:24 Yeah, my, uh, grandfather quickly decided that he would buy a, or buy and run a apartment building. So after a couple years, um, he must have had enough money. So he bought a fairly large apartment building on, um, Chicago Avenue and Ada Street, um, that's close to Ashland. And, uh, it was a three-story building, uh, over a set of sho- uh, stores. So all together, I guess it was a four-story building and he, there was many, many apartments in there. Most of the apartments were single fam- or a single room kind of apartments, almost like a rooming house, except there was no kit- no central kitchen or anything like that. And he, uh, operated that. So he, he was the janitor and did, did all the repairs. Um, and he made a living out of that. He loaned, I guess, my father some money so that my father could buy an apartment building on the south, South Side. So, um, my family moved into an apartment building that he bought on 63rd and Kenwood Avenue in the Woodlawn area.

AT: 00:19:01 And did your dad have any additional work or was it just?

NK: 00:19:04 Yeah, my father, that was a much smaller building. Um, but it was still an apartment building. Um, and it was single fan- a single room occupancy kind-of-a-place. Um, so he, he ran that with my mother. And in addition to that, he worked, he had a job first at a, I guess a bookbinding company. And he used to bring home some scrap papers and stuff and make tablets and stuff, uh, from that. But I guess the, the chemicals that they used, especially the glues and stuff for bookbinding were quite toxic, and he couldn't take that too well. His health was, was not good from that. He, uh, worked for a while in a place that made screws. I guess that was quite a physical job and as a laborer, uh, he had to carry big, heavy boxes of the screws and nails and things. And, uh, that again was physically pretty challenging for him. So he couldn't work anymore there. So he spent the next decade or so just uh, working in the apartment building. And he would go over to my grandmother's place and help her with her building too and doing some of the renovations. And, then when people moved out and...

AT: 00:20:48 Would you happen to know the names of these companies, the...?

NK: 00:20:51 No, no.

AT: 00:20:53 And, so the first building that your, the three-flat, um, you were there only for a couple of years?

NK: 00:21:05 Yes.

AT: 00:21:06 Before moving into this?

NK: 00:21:07 He and my, yeah, my grandfather sold it and you know, the pre- proceeds from that plus some of the savings went to buy for the purchase of the apartment building on Chicago Avenue.

AT: 00:21:19 And um, as far as uh, your own friends and social world as a child, did you have any cousins in that flat, your uncles, or?

NK: 00:21:35 Um, yeah. My, my uncles were a little- my mother was the oldest one, so she had the children of, you know, her siblings first. The cousins that were in Chicago were all much younger. The youngest, the oldest of the cousins that were in Chicago were uh, like eight years younger than, than me. Uh, so they weren't really childhood kind of playing cousins, but we, we saw them frequently, you know, especially during the holidays and things.

AT: 00:22:14 And then what about, um, schools. And were you?

NK: 00:22:19 Um, I started grade school at a place called, a school called the, uh, Wadsworth School on 64th and University and went there for one year- to kindergarten there. And then they found out that we were in, uh, on the wrong side of 63rd Street. And they said we need to go to another school. The [inaudible] School, which was actually further away, it was like three blocks further away, but I had, we had to go there, so I had to walk, we had, it was like eight blocks that we had to walk to school, but that's what we did. So that, I do, I want to [inaudible] School and graduated from there in 1957.

AT: 00:23:07 And um, did, were there other, um, Japanese American families in that area [inaudible]?

NK: 00:23:18 Yes. Uh, there were, there weren't as many as there were further north in the Kenwood, uh, Oakwood, Oakdale kind of area. But I did have a few friends, Japanese friends. There were two boys. Uh, they were old slightly, like a year older than me. Um, Wayne Fujiwara and Alan Nishimura. And we played together and in grade school, spent our, uh, especially with Alan Nishimura, we used to hang out every day and go out to Jackson Park and explore the Museum of Science and Industry and wo- uh, Jackson Park, Wooded Island, and well kind of did our own little adventure things like Huckleberry Finn and stuff and we had a good time. Let's see. There was Donna Ogura. I don't know if, she's uh, she's still around, she's, part of the active- part of the Japanese community here. I remember her, going to her house and, uh, not really playing with her, but, no, I used to like to go to their house because it's a, their father, Joyce and Donna's father, was a renowned, Sumei artist and he used to draw- paint and, uh, I used to o look at his paintings and like to watch him do it. And I thought I was just fascinating.

AT: 00:24:54 Mm. And um, so how long was your family in the area?

NK: 00:25:05 The, uh, the that area was very tough area. We were the only, um, Japanese that were still in that area. Now the Fujiwaras and the Nishimuras, they moved sev- a few years earlier. So we were the only Japanese in our whole, you know, couple-block area. Uh, in fact we were the only non-black people in that area. So it was getting kind of dangerous. Growing up in that area, it was not bad, even though it was all black, it was safe and we could play out late after dark and there was no, no worries. Drugs weren't around at that time. And, uh, when we graduated high sch- when I grad- I went to high school, the area started really getting bad and drugs started coming around and my father decided that we need to move. So we moved to the Uptown area. Or at least he bought another building in the Uptown area. And our family kind, of over a period of a year, moved from the South Side to the North Side.

AT: 00:26:16 And which high school did you go to?

NK: 00:26:18 I went to Hyde Park High School and graduated from there. Same with my oldest sister. My younger sister went to Hyde Park, to Hyde Park for two years and then we moved up north and she went to Sen High School.

AT: 00:26:34 And um, besides school, did you do any other extracurricular activities or did you, was your family involved in temples or churches?

NK: 00:26:46 We, when, in our earlier childhood, um, the church we went to was the Woodlawn Baptist Church, uh, which was on 62nd and University. And the reason, uh, we went there even though my family was Buddhist, um, my father didn't have a car, there was no car in the family, so we had to take public transportation. This church was only about three blocks away from where our home, home was. And, uh, my parents felt that going to any kind of a church was better than going to no church. In 1954 when I was 11, 10 or 11 years old, uh, he bought his first car and at that point then, um, our area that we could go to was much more expanded. And we went to the Buddhist Temple- it was called Chicago Buddhist Church, which is BTC right now on 55th and Dorchester.

AT: 00:27:50 Can you tell me about your memories of those earlier years at um, when it was Chicago Buddhist Church?

NK: 00:27:57 It was, um, that was good time. Um, the, there were a lot of members there and there were a lot of young people. We, the Sunday school was huge. Um, there must've been 75 to a hundred kids there. And when there's that many kids there, uh, it's almost like play time. You know, you went to Sunday school, there were classes and you look forward to when classes were over so you can play with your friends. So I developed quite a number of friends there at, uh, at the church. Uh, I was there about a year when, uh, I was kind of invited or asked to join the Boy Scout troop there. So when I was 11, um, maybe 11 and a half or so, I joined the Boy Scout troop and became very active with them and I was active with the Boy Scout troop for many years and continued to be active as a, as a adult leader with that troop.

AT: 00:29:14 And so that was out of BTC?

NK: 00:29:14 Yes. So even when the Buddhist Church, uh, moved to the North Side, the troop and all the activities moved up there too, so. In the earlier- they moved in 1957, so for many years, I was taking the "L" from the South Side to the North Side to participate in the church activities, including the Scouts.

AT: 00:29:47 When it was still in Hyde Park, um, can you describe kind of a typical day with services and things you did?

NK: 00:30:00 Um...

AT: 00:30:02 Or what, what the, you know, a day of church activities, what did that look like?

NK: 00:30:10 Um, the um...gosh, this is where my memories kind of fade...

AT: 00:30:13 Well, this is a long time ago. It was a very specific question.

NK: 00:30:15 Yeah, it was a long time ago. They had the, the basically the same kind of rituals that they have now and the ministers come out in their, in their garb, you know, their Buddhist robes and things and uh, there was chanting, there was singing of, uh, like Sunday school songs. There was a, because the church was so large, membership was so large, they had a Sunday school service that was different than the adult service. So these, the songs that they sang were more children's kind of Christian- uh not Christian- Buddhist songs. After maybe 20 minutes or so of the chanting and the minister's message, then we'd all divide up into our separate little Sunday school classes. And there must have been oh, at least a half a dozen different groups depending on the age. And um, that was a whole thing. Lasted about an hour and then you know, then it was play time after that, while the adults had their service.

AT: 00:31:41 Was there a, a Japanese school out of BTC?

NK: 00:31:43 Yes, that was a Japanese language school was on Saturdays and there, when I was going there, um, there must have been about 30 or 40 students there and, um, I did not like to go to language school there.

AT: 00:32:11 I've never heard that [laughs].

NK: 00:32:13 Um, I, I hated it actually. I couldn't wait for it to be over. For one thing, I never did my homework and whenever we were then called on to answer any questions I [laughs] I couldn't do it. And because I couldn't do it very well, you know, it made me feel bad and made me not want to go. So I went for a couple of years. Uh, I think I set my mind to not learn even though, you know, not just sit there but by osmosis and let it sink in. I resisted learning it 'cause I, I thought it was, you know, why would I ever need to speak Japanese, you know?

AT: 00:32:57 Did you speak Japanese at home?

NK: 00:32:59 No, but I understood it. When we were growing up, I guess my parents, until we got into grade school, my parents spoke only Japanese so that we would somehow learn the language. But because I was a resistant child, I refused to learn how, but I did know enough Japanese to be able to understand what they were saying. And I think I still can, when people talk Japanese, I have vocabulary stored somewhere, where I know what they were saying. At least I knew when they were talking about me. So, and uh, my grandmother spoke mostly Japanese. Uh, so she would talk to me in Japanese and I would answer her in English. Her, she knew enough English to, to understand. Her understanding of English was much better than my understanding of Japanese.

AT: 00:33:59 And um, that was actually something I wanted to ask you about is your relationship with your grandparents, um, as you were growing up. And again, to clarify this was, it was only your mother's parents who were in Chicago?

NK: 00:34:16 Right, my father's parents, they left Jap- uh, they left the United States to go back to Japan when my father was only like five or six years old and he was raised in Japan and he came back as a young teenager. And so my grandparents stayed in Japan, so I never knew my, my father's parents.

AT: 00:34:43 Do you know where they were in Japan?

NK: 00:34:46 They were in Hiroshima.

AT: 00:34:48 And so they were there duri- throughout the war?

NK: 00:34:51 Uh, yes, my grandfather I think must have died before World War II and my grandmother, she died in the early 1960s or maybe late 1950s. And, uh, I have seen many pictures of her. I should say that I do have a sister in Japan. She's not my biological sister. She's my, she's an adopted sister. She's my biological first cousin. Um, my father adopted her in the late 1960s. Or actually, my father adopted her as a teenager so she could take care of my grandmother who got, who suffered a stroke over there and um in her last few years she needed someone to take care of her. So my, my first cousin Masako agreed to, to take care of her and in return, she would inherit the family farm. And because my father was the oldest son, in fact, he was the only son that was left, and he had no intention of going back to Japan, somebody had to run the farm and carry on the Kanemoto name in Japan. So she, she changed her name to Kanemoto and became my sister and she still lives in that same house.

AT: 00:36:31 And so as far as, um, during the war, di- was any of your father's family, like immediate family, did anyone else go to camp? Or was

NK: 00:36:47 Ah, yes. Um, my father had a brother, Kozo, who was, who went to camp. He was a few years younger than my father. He's my uncle Kozo, he's still alive. Um, there were, my father had, uh, was one of five siblings. Four of them were born in the United States. One was born in Japan. Uh, there was a brother that was born in Chica- in United States who was, who never came to Chi- um, back to the United States after, before the war. He was actually drafted into the Japanese army and was killed in the Philippines during the battles there, um, of World War II. So, he was a war casualty. Um, my uncle Kozo interestingly, was in the United States army. He, he wasn't drafted. He wasn't quite old enough to serve, uh, to be drafted, but right after the war he joined the army and was sent to Japan to be part of the occupation forces there. So of my two uncles, I thought it was interesting that one was in the Japanese army and one was in the American army.

AT: 00:38:30 Um, and, um, so growing up in Chicago, it sounds like you were pretty familiar with and immersed in the, in Japanese American community here.

NK: 00:38:48 Yes.

AT: 00:38:49 Um, how would you describe, um, well actually I'm gonna wait to ask that question, but, um, so to, to go back, um, a little bit, you're on the South Side and going to school and in BTC and Sunday school and then, uh, in '50...in '57 you moved Uptown.

NK: 00:39:28 Actually, I moved in, um, 1962, my sisters moved in '61. I stayed on the South Side with my father, uh, who- he was- still had the building on the South Side that someone needed to be there. So he was there and I stayed with him too because he shouldn't be there by himself. I was a freshman in college, so I, was no big deal for me to, to live down there. And the following year then uh, he sold the building and we move- we all moved up uh, we moved up to that building that he had purchased on Leland Avenue in Uptown.

AT: 00:40:14 I see. Um, and where, where did you go to college?

NK: 00:40:20 That's, that's an interesting story there.

AT: 00:40:24 When you were a freshman?

NK: 00:40:24 I was, I was not a good student academically. I was a rebel. I, I resisted authority- my father's authority, school's authority. I wasn't, I wasn't a troublemaker, but I was just a passive-aggressive 'leave me alone, I don't want to do it' kind of a kid. And I got into college at University of Illinois at Navy Pier and um, I didn't do too well. I was taking a number of courses that I, I didn't like and I didn't make the grade. So I, I flunked out after one year. Uh, I went to a city college, here in Chicago- Luke College, which is now called Harold Washington. And, uh, started taking classes there and took a biology course that I absolutely loved. I just thought that was the greatest course. I just loved biology and I had a good teacher, uh, who encouraged me to continue with biology. Now that Luke College was just a brand new school, had just opened and they didn't have any courses beyond the basic biology. So he encouraged me to go to Wright College, which I did, and took more biology courses. And, low and behold, I all of a sudden my grades went from a 'D' to a 'A' and 'B'. Um, and this instructor's name was Frank Schuble. Uh, just kept encouraging me all along, you know, that I should look into that as a career. So I went to a school in Iowa and continued with my biology, which I continued to love and got good grades and got into graduate school at the University of South Dakota and got a master's degree in the biological sciences there. And all during this time I was in college there, this Frank Schuble was very encouraging. He, I don't know why he liked me so much. I just loved that man. He said, if you, when you finish graduate school, if you're looking for a teaching job, come, come and look me up. So I, when I graduated, uh, first, uh, I didn't, I didn't know what I was going to do. I was told by the draft board that don't go to any more school after, after I finished my master's degree 'cause there were, I was going to be drafted, so don't even think about a PhD. And I got my draft notice and I flunked my physical so I didn't have to go into the army. So I called up Frank Schuble my instructor and said, I just finished, you know, my, my graduate degree. And he said, why don't you come and teach here? So I did. I taught at the, uh, at this Luke College. Um, I taught there for eight years and during that time I got married and my wife worked for the government and she had a fairly high level job and she got a tremendous job offer in Philadelphia. So we had to, I had to make a decision to continue with my teaching, which I liked or do I go with her career. Um, so we moved to Philadelphia and, and uh, I had a hard time finding a job there. And after a year of doing, just kind of job hunting, I, uh, uh, did couple of jobs for a couple years and then decided to go to school to become an occupational therapist. And that's what I did. I went to Thomas Jefferson University and got a master of OT.

AT: 00:44:42 How long were you in Philadelphia?

NK: 00:44:44 A total of about eight years.

AT: 00:44:47 And then did you return to Chicago?

NK: 00:44:49 Well, I, after I graduated, um, my marriage didn't work out, so I got divorced in Philadelphia. I continued to work in Philadelphia for two years at a hospital as a occupational therapist. My goal as therapist was to become a hand therapist specializing in people with hand injuries. So I did a extra kind of, in my schooling, an ex- stayed on an extra semester to almost do like an internship kind of a thing, an advanced study in hand therapy at this place called the Philadelphia Hand Center, which is kind of a nationally renowned place. And uh, after that I moved back to Chicago and became a hand therapist in, at the University of Illinois Hospital. And did a combination of therapy plus a little bit of teaching there at the university.

AT: 00:45:47 And what year was that that you were returned?

NK: 00:45:49 1970...no, I'm sorry, 1987.

AT: 00:45:59 When you came back to Chicago, um, where did you move to in the city?

NK: 00:46:09 Uh, at first I moved back into my parent's apartment building, the same one on Leland Avenue that he moved up to from the South Side.

AT: 00:46:19 So they, they still had that?

NK: 00:46:21 Yeah, they still had that. Um, my grandmother lived in that building too after she got too old and sold the building. She lived in one of the apartments there also.

AT: 00:46:33 And, um, so that, that must not have been far from BTC's new location.

NK: 00:46:47 Correct. That was, um, about, uh, three blocks away, three maybe four blocks away. So it was easy walking distance right down the street. It's on the same street, Leland Avenue, yeah.

AT: 00:46:59 And so your, your family, had they continued attending?

NK: 00:47:03 Yes. My father was active in, with the temple all the way through, all the way until, for the rest of his life. And by default, I being the son, had to also be connected. So anything that was going on with church, I had to go and help and work on things. I was not and still I'm not a religious person, but I go to ser- I go to occasional services and I consider myself Buddhist, but not, not a strong one. I'm only there because of family culture kind of things[inaudible]

AT: 00:47:50 Um, do you have any questions that you wanna?

Interviewer 2: 00:47:57 I do have a few if that's okay, just a few.

NK: 00:48:00 Sure, I'd be glad to.

I2: 00:48:02 After listening, just having some questions come up for me. So, um, and also feel free if you don't feel comfortable answering them or you just would prefer not to. Uh, but talking about, you mentioned at the beginning of our conversation about your brother's pass- your brother passing away in camp um, I'm wondering if you knew, we learned a lot about how all of these camps had really inadequate medical facilities. Um, so did his death, I don't know if, you know, have anything to do with what was available onsite at, at camp.

NK: 00:48:37 From what I understand, he had, um, developed like a measles.

I2: 00:48:45 Okay.

NK: 00:48:45 And, uh, that was not diagnosed because of the, I guess, the poor medication, the poor diagnostic techniques that they had there. So they didn't treat him for that. And from that it developed the, uh, he developed an infection which then spread to his circulatory system and developed what they call sepsis, blood poisoning. So if he were in a regular, uh, good-type of hospital, not in a camp infirmary, um, he might've been diagnosed and properly treated, but he wasn't in. So he passed from that.

I2: 00:49:30 He was, was it nine years old?

NK: 00:49:33 He was, no, he was six years old when he died. I was one year old. So if he would've just had his 80th birthday, if he were still alive.

AT: 00:49:46 Did your parents or your family have any kind of bitterness about that?

NK: 00:49:52 Uh, no, not really bitterness, but I remember growing up every year on the day he died, my mother would cry. My, my mother was a very strong person and I hardly ever saw her cry except for that, that anniversary of his death.

I2: 00:50:22 How do you think that your brother's passing maybe affected you growing up? Obviously it impacted your mom.

NK: 00:50:30 Well, um, I think that had my, had Bobby lived, he would have taken some of the pressure off of me because when he died, after he died, I became the, the son and the- my father was a very typical Japan-type Japanese person. Uh, he was very strict. He was kind of raised in a militaristic type of, uh, environment. Um, he expected the oldest son to carry on in the same traditions, uh, that you know, that all good Japanese men should be- like little soldiers, um, that, 'gaman' was all important. You never showed any sign of weakness or fear or anything. And if we ever cried, oh, that was the worst sign of weakness. So we would have to, I would have to stand at attention and try to stifle my crying when he disciplined me. Um, I think that would have not occurred so much had my older brother been around. And because I was academically, my grades were not good, he would always get on me for, for performing better, you know, um, which then I passively resist- you know, passive aggressive. I resisted and, uh, suffered the con- more tirades from him. So as, growing up, I, I very much disliked my father and only after I, uh, got into college and afterwards did I really began to like the guy [laughs].

I2: 00:52:30 Um, I'm also wondering that, um, just growing up, did you ever struggle to come to terms with your identity as a Japanese American?

NK: 00:52:42 Not really struggle but growing up, uh, there were quite a few taunts, um, from classmates and uh, not particularly because I was Japanese, but because I was Asian, I used to get a lot of this 'Ching Chong Chinaman, you know, sitting on the fence trying to make a dollar out of 15 cents', uh, that kind of thing. And you know, the kids would always, you know [pulls at eyes to create slant-eyed look] do that kind of thing. Um, at least, until I got into high school, you know, it, it's funny 'cause the kids that were taunting me were, were blacks and uh, you know, maybe because they were black and they had a chance to pick on another race. There were, there weren't very many Caucasians in the grade school. I went to I think, uh, in my class, graduating class of like 60, there were like eight Caucasians and like four Asians. Most of my daily childhood-type friends. The- one was a Caucasian one was a black person, and we'd hang out after school. We'd play on the playground and do things. But, uh, there were no other Japanese in the, in my school. Uh, there were, I guess there was two girls that were like five or six grades below me. They were, while I was in the eighth grade, they were like in the third grade or something like that. So not playmates or anything like that. There was one other Chinese guy in my class. Um, and uh, we, we became friends and, uh, he joined our Boy Scout troop and I knew him all the way through high school. So we went all the way through grade school and high school together and he, he was a brain and I was the dummy [laughs].

I2: 00:54:49 Um, can I ask, uh, do you remember like the redress process that was underway, kind of following?

NK: 00:54:58 Yeah, I, I do. Um, I wasn't involved in that process. My cousin was. Her name is, uh, Mary Omari. Now she's Mary Sampson. But, uh, she was very active in that redress process and used to help and serve on committees and do all that kind of thing. Um, I followed it, but I was never [active in, I considered politically kind of an active person] or my cousin was, so she did that and I'm kinda thankful I got the, I got the redress money and she didn't because she was born after, but she, she felt strongly about it enough to be involved in that process.

AT: 00:55:51 Were your parents alive during the movement?

NK: 00:55:56 Yes. My father died, um, in 2000, the year 2000. My mother died in 2001. So they were both, uh, elderly. My father was 90, and my father, my mother was 89 when she died.

I2: 00:56:16 What did they think of the redress movement?

NK: 00:56:16 Oh, they were, I think they were appreciative, um, of the, you know, the finally getting acknowledgement that, uh, that, uh, a wrong has been kinda righted. But because they were, I don't feel that they were really bitter about the ex- war experience, um, they really didn't talk too much about it. They, I think they like me kind of looked at that redress money as extra spending money rather than, you know, payback for a crime that- or a wrongdoing that was imposed on them, so.

AT: 00:57:01 Did you ever learn about, um, internment in, in school or anywhere in your education?

NK: 00:57:09 No, not in, not in a formal education, but we've always known about it because of, you know, the talk, you know, that, um, there was always, you know, in conversations reference to 'camp this, camp that,' and I didn't, uh, take the camp, the meaning of camp to be a, like a prison, but more as a, just a, almost like a- not summer vacation place, but a kind of a temporary stage in their period of, and in their life that they had to go through. But it wasn't a horrible experience for them, so. Oh, I want to say one thing. Um, growing up, uh, the Japanese community in Chicago, especially during the 50s, um, from my earliest memories until maybe 1965 or so, the Japanese community I feel was much more cohesive than it is now. They had a lot of be- I guess because the Japanese were all, shared the same experience coming from the camps. Uh, and they were starting a new life here. They tended, many ethnic groups, when they come, they tend to, uh, come together. And there were, there were a lot of community-type events, uh, either church events at specific churches or even community kind of things like the J-, the predecessor of the JASC, which was the Resettlers Committee, uh, every year they had a big picnic and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds- we're talking large number of people- would all get together and have a big picnic in one of the parks during the summertime. Um, there would be other groups, um, like my father belonged to a group called the Hiroshima Kenjinkai, and there were, are the Kenjinkai are groups the, the Ken is the, is like a state in Japan where a lot of them would come from the same area, Hiroshima, would all get together and they would have a Hiroshima picnic. There would be like Kyushu kind of a picnic with uh, and I think that group kind of still is, uh, they still get together about once a year or so. But there were a lot of, these picnic kind of things, community organizations, social groups, the clubs. The young people form these clubs. Um, the boys, usually for basketball, the girls had more social kind of clubs, but they did sports things too. So, some of the older people, the Japanese you- that are a little older than me, they associate with groups, uh, these clubs. And I can't remember the names of too many of them, but, um, like there were the Row Babes, the Bruins, the Vikings and we were part of a group called the Saxons and we still get together and my poker buddies are, are all former Sa- are all part of the Saxons group. But, um, that, those kinds of things fell apart or stopped happening after about the 1970s or so. That, uh, there aren't any of these Japanese social groups like there used to be. And I think that's kind of sad. I missed that. Every now and then, um, Tonko Doi has, um, a reunion for the, the old social groups. So they still, some people still come and get together. Many of them have moved out of town, but they still come together, get together. Most of these reunions happened in Las, Las Vegas and I want to a couple of them. And it's, it's kinda neat.

AT: 01:01:35 Um, around what time were you involved with the social clubs?

NK: 01:01:40 When I was in high school, we, uh, formed a basketball team 'cause we were part of that Nisei Athletic Association and so our, our group the Saxons were a team that belonged to that group. And most of the social clubs were part of that Nisei Athletic League.

AT: 01:02:04 Um, in addition to that, how did the um, social clubs sort of operate?

NK: 01:02:13 They, uh, well they had their sports things, but um, there were a lot of dances. They would sponsor a dance usually at a church or something like that. And, um, some of these were from the social groups. Some of them were from just the churches, the young people at different churches. So one, one week there would be a dance at BTC. Another, there would be a dance at MBT or Tri-C or CCP or at, uh, Viking Hall. They would have dances and things like that. And they- for several years they had dances and guys would, people would bring records and there would be, they'd turn the lights down. They had, maybe a disco, kind of a lamp, you know, ball, and uh, there'd be dancing, which was, which was fun, you know, as, as we got older, you know, and, uh, interest in dating, you know, when, when we first started the, you know, girls were not part of boys' social life. And then as we got older then, boys became interested in the girls and I suppose the girls got interested in the boys.

AT: 01:03:38 Um, can you tell me or explain, um, maybe some of the dynamics or the differences between South Side groups and North Side groups?

NK: 01:03:50 Well, um, I don't know too much about the dynamics or differences between the groups, but I know among the, the young men that, um, there was this feeling of like the South Side group, And I'm not sure if they were mostly the Row Babe kind of guys, um, they really disliked the North Side guys. And, uh, I don't think there were any, I mean what they call rumbles or fights or anything like that, but, it's like, it's like the difference between the Sox fans and the Cubs fans, you know, you know, you recognize them but you weren't part of their, their group. And there were the South Side people were mostly around 43rd Street between the 47th and 37th Street, uh, close to the lake. There were a lot of Japanese there. Uh, I think a lot more on the South Side than there is on the North Side.

AT: 01:05:05 And in the groups did, um, can you just give me more, more details about kind of how they worked? Like how many people were there? Did people have roles? Or was it just?

NK: 01:05:21 I don't know if you'd call it roles, they would see each other a lot because all of those areas- those people on the South Side, just about all of those went to Hyde Park High School. And in the late 1940 and early 1950s, I would guess just by looking at the yearbooks, that at least a quarter of the students in the whole school were Japanese and because they were Japanese then they get to see each other and talk to each other and they always congregated together in the lunch room. Um, that they, they were more cohesive. They form, you know, their, their social rules or interactions were or you know, together or united as opposed to kids that went to different high schools. Like on the North Side, um, they were split into different high schools. Like a number of them went to Waller. A number of them want to Senn. A number of them went to um, what's now Lincoln Park High School. I forgot the name. Waller. Waller High School. Um, or Wells High. There's Wells High School, Waller High School, Senn. So they were, there were, I think less of a cohesiveness among the North Side Japanese students at the, because they just didn't see each others as much. In fact, Karen is um, my wife Karen, she was the only Japanese I think in the whole school, at Amundsen. They just, that part of the North Side didn't have Japanese at that time.

AT: 01:07:13 And um, to be in the club, did you have to do anything or?

NK: 01:07:20 No, it wasn't, um, it wasn't a formal club, but it was rather a grouping. I think some of the older clubs, especially the older girl clubs, uh, they did have regular rules and they, I think they even had, um, they wore the same sweaters with the same, you know, uh, initials on them or whatever. They, they, they dressed to- oh, alike.

AT: 01:07:48 So the Saxons didn't have any-

NK: 01:07:50 No, no. We never had any t-shirts or anything like that. We, but uh, or just the basketball jerseys are the only thing that had our had our name on them. In fact, I think we were so poor that we didn't, we just had the same color jersey instead, instead of having our initials. Like MBT had 'MBT' printed tee- jerseys. We didn't have a printed jersey. But, um, it was always a rivalry among those different sports groups and, um, most of the time it was friendly, a friendly rivalry and some of the situat- some of the teams had a real physical dislike for each other and they actually got into fights and things like that. But nothing that I ever was involved in or witnessed.

AT: 01:08:51 If you had to describe the, um, the Japanese American community kind of, of that time and from that resettlement period, let's say until mid-50s, um, maybe late-50s, how would you describe what the community was like then?

NK: 01:09:17 It was um, kind of a multigenerational. The, the leaders of the community were mostly the Isseis, the older generation. And uh, I would say, well thinking it from a kid point of view, where I was, the Issei generation were all old people, really old people. But, uh, when I think back on it, like I always recognize my father as a, probably a member of this, you know, leadership of the Is- and among the Isseis. He died at age 58, which is young. But I always, thought he had gray hair, I always thought he was an old, old man. Um, and I used to think of all the Isseis as old people. Um, the, uh, the Niseis, the next generation, and there was a pretty clear divide between the Isseis and the Niseis as far as appearance and you know, distinct generations as opposed to blending kind of a thing. The, the Niseis were the uh, the people in the community who did a lot, most of the work, the, even though the Isseis where the, were the formal leaders I guess, and then the Sanseis, like me, were just 'the kids', you know, were always 'the kids'. And, you know, gradually over, I see the Iss- the we saw the Isseis dying out and the Niseis is taking over and the Niseis were pretty much, were the leaders of the community in terms of the temples and the activities and organizations and things that, that existed in the Japanese community.

AT: 01:11:12 And how you describe the, the community today?

NK: 01:11:17 It uh, I would say it's, it's much thinned out, watered down considerably in terms of numbers, in terms of commitment that people have to the community. Um, that, uh, most of the people from my generation have either moved or they're not interested in, in maintaining the cohesive community that, uh, I feel. And I think I've talked to other people too, that they feel like the community as we know it now is not going to exist in 20 or 30 years because, uh, the population is just so spread out. It's so, uh, and interracial marriages. Uh, when that happens, um, the, the Japanese part of the, let's say a marriage, um, if someone is married to another cultural, you know, ethnic group, you know, it's diluted by 50% because you want to include cultural things from, from both sides of the, uh, marriage. Um, and the more intermarriage goes on, the less, um, homogeneality there's going to be, it's gonna be just widespread. There'll be some, but, um, people won't, I feel like people won't embellish their own, you know, if one person might be, even have a Japanese name, but, uh, only one-eighth Japanese, you know, what are you? You know, so I think as a, as a community, if there's going to be, how can you be that cohesive? If there's that much dilution of culture, and language and even the way people physically look.

AT: 01:13:46 Um, you mentioned kind of a, a lack of interest as well when you were talking about Sansei. Do you have any ideas about why that might be or what, maybe what's changed?

NK: 01:14:07 Um, I'm not sure, like thinking back, all my young Japanese friends at my age, when I was young, you know, were they not, why, why don't they participate? If the Buddhist temple had that many students in their Japanese school, why didn't they continue with their, with that Buddhist tradition of sending their children to the Japanese school or to a Buddhist Sunday school and I don't know. The, uh, and I think that's not only among the Buddhists, but among the Christian Japanese churches as well, that there aren't the younger people to sup- that, support that in that institution and the community. Um, I think it's sad. One of the reasons my daughter stopped going to, the, the Sunday school was Japanese Sunday school was because there were so few other students of her age to, to pal around with. And now there's, you know, all those few that were going to school with her. She, she's not really close friends with any of them. Where, when we were growing up, um, like most of my close friends now were the same close friends that I had back then. I don't know why. I wish it went that way. I wish people would kind of stay together more. But that's the way it is.

AT: 01:15:57 What are your, what are your hopes for the future of the Japanese American community in Chicago?

NK: 01:16:02 Well, I think the community is really doing, making a strong effort to try to keep the identity of the Japanese community by, um, like the JASC having a natsumatsuri, you know, that kind of a thing. The Buddhists, the churches having their different festivals that, uh, emphasize Japanese culture. I think, I don't know, if something, you know, in hindsight, way back 30, 40 years ago, people thought about these kinds of things and what they could do to retain a strong community while the community was strong. Like as the community gets weaker, you know, it's, I think it's harder to get people back to that point, that, but a lot of people like me want, feel like, should be, you know, go back to the good old days kind of thing.

AT: 01:17:17 So we have um, just a little bit more time for a couple of more questions.

NK: 01:17:24 Okay.

New Speaker: 01:17:25 Um, one thing I wanted to be sure to ask you about was, uh, if you have any memories of any areas in the city, um, when you were growing up that might've been, had some Japanese American businesses or restaurants, or grocery stores.

NK: 01:17:48 Um, yeah, I, I the grocery store thing is one that I always remember that on the South Side there were several little local storefront-type Japanese and in fact on the North Side too. That, you know, they would sell rice and tofu and all these, the different Japanese ingredients, you know, like Japan Food Corporation-type products. Um, go- I remember going there and they would have like tofu and uh, not in little plastic packages, but in a great big metal can, you know, like a five gallon can and the proprietor would scoop out a big thing like that and put it in a plastic bag and you'd take the tofu home. And I always thought those were kind of neat places. Thinking back on it then.

AT: 01:18:50 Do you remember where they were located or what they were called?

NK: 01:18:53 There were some like the Franklin Food Market was on 53rd Street. I can't remember the names of some of the others on the South Side, but on North Side there would be like the Diamond...I think Togari had a market there. I forgot the, if they called it Togari Market or not. But uh, the Star Market was always the big one. Star Market was probably the last one that existed in Chicago before, you know, and that closed I think over 10 years ago, but uh, that would be a place, you know, that people can go to for their, for their Japanese foods. Now they, it's all at Mitsuwa, or that other one in Arlington Heights, uh, Tensuke, yeah.

AT: 01:19:42 Um, did you ever see or experience the Clark and Division area?

NK: 01:19:50 My, my mother, was, um, used to work for the Resettlers Committee and uh, she was in their office there. She worked there for many years and under the director who was, uh, Mr. Nakane. Um, and from there they moved up to the Viking Hall upon Sheffield. And, um, but I remember that Clark and Division only because I used to go there to go to my mother's workplace. And at that time, um, they had, they provided a lot of different social services. They had like a, it was a place for people to get jobs or to find job listings there. In fact, she, my mother got me a lot of summer jobs because people would call the service committee to say they were looking for, you know, part time help for the, especially young men or young people for summer jobs. So I got a job working at LaSalle Photo through referral through the service committee. Um, they, they used to have more, I think a lot of social services. They used to have clubs and things for war brides and things. So during that, during that time, so they did a lot of things for the community. And uh, some of those things still carry on.

AT: 01:21:31 And so, as you know, one thing that we're interested in in this project is, um, to get a better sense of resettlement in Chicago. Um, as someone who kind of grew up in this, you know, big migration and change and experience, um, how, how would you kind of describe the experience of resettlement if you're talking very generally and kind of, you know what were some of the defining factors of the resettlement experience to Chicago?

NK: 01:22:14 Hm. Gee. I always thought that my experiences growing up were not that much different than other, my other friends, you know, the non-Japanese friends. You know, I used to go to their houses and eat the same kind of food. The only, our food was a little different 'cause we had more rice in our diet and more this, Japanese kind of foods. But I don't think my experience was, I, I would say overall I had a positive experience growing up that, uh, being Japanese, if anything was more of a positive, you know, in terms of, uh, then negative. Um, people just assume that, this is very stereotypical so I'm feeling funny saying it, um, that Japanese are considered to be hard workers and I think they are, you know, they're, they're quite honest basically and, uh, smart and the uh, academically smart. And I always kind of took advantage of that because people assumed I was smarter than I thought, than I was. So yeah, I say, yeah, yeah, I'm smart because I was born that way. And that I knew judo, you know, that martial arts was in my blood and in my DNA and I could just, you know, do a karate chop and knock your head off. Even though I've never taken a karate class in my life, they just assumed that. And uh, so there's positive stereotypes about the community that, um, that I think are good. Uh, and luckily for the generations before me, there were very few negatives, about negative stereotypes. So I consider I was lucky to be born the race I am, you know, being Japanese.

AT: 01:24:24 I guess to, to rephrase my question, I'm wondering if, like, if you were to describe what resettlement was to someone who had no idea, what are some of the key things you would use to?

NK: 01:24:44 Well at that, at that time of resettlement, people who were leaving the, the camps, um, their main thing was 'where am I gonna settle down? Where am I going to be able to find a job?' That was, that was the key thing and that was the reason that so many internees came to Chicago, uh, was, was the economic advantage. Also the fact that there was little discrimination because there were so few Japanese before the war that people didn't have, uh, any kind of preconceived, uh, you know, discrimination kind of a thing. There weren't the, um, like on the west coast there were a lot of Japanese there and you've got a target then for, for, um, racial discrimination that you didn't have here. So I don't know how much and I don't think there was much racial discrimination into the Japanese community and you know, people hear that. So they come to, they come to Chicago and wherever, you know, Detroit, Denver, east coast, wherever. So there were quite a few centers. I know Philadelphia had quite a few Japanese going, going there and like forming JACL chapters and things like that.

I2: 01:26:22 Just one more question for you before we end our session. Um, has the internment affected you personally at any, if it has, how has its legacy manifested itself in your own life?

NK: 01:26:41 I, I really don't think that it had, uh, an impact on me because you know, it was before I had any memories of, of what camp might have been like. Now, if I had childhood experience and memories of living in those barracks and living under those conditions, it might've. Um, and that's one of the things that, uh, this, like the Kansha project. And two years ago I went out with my wife to take a tour of the different camps and we've been to nine of the 10 internment camps and seeing, you know, what life was like in those and, it was quite appalling to me, uh, the conditions that they had to live in. So if anything now I feel a little bit more, uh, angry about what the, uh, actions of the government were to cause that internment. Uh, and I see a lot of that stuff still happen. So it made me a lot more politically aware of the situation then and what has changed and what has not changed, so. I don't know if that answered your question.

AT: 01:28:08 What inspired you to take that trip?

NK: 01:28:14 Um, I've been totally aware of, you know, all the camps and things and my father was very active in the community. Um, he, he had a lot of books and things out of the camp. You know my, the, there were, there's always been a lot of these short movies and things about the camp experience that's shown to the, to the, uh, Japanese community. Uh, so I was fully aware of that and I just wanted to find out more about what it was really like. So that, that kind of inspired me to, to do that and I've got one more camp. It's kind of like a bucket list that on the bucket list was visit all 10 camps. And so I got one more.

AT: 01:29:13 Which one is that?

NK: 01:29:13 Uh, that's, Amache in Colorado, but some of them were very, very well presented. Uh, Jerome, the Jerome Rohwer, there's an interpretive center. Uh, Heart Mountain has a very nice one. Minidoka has a very nice one. Um, uh, Tule uh, Minidoka, let's see...Minidoka. Heart Mountain has a very nice one. Um, and some of them were just placards out there.

AT: 01:29:47 Did you try to find where your fam- or where your family was living in Tule Lake?

NK: 01:29:53 Um, well it's not, I didn't want to, I didn't go to the, you know, stand on the, on the block that...Had I thought of it, I might've wanted to do it. I wanted just to be at the camp and kind of see, well, which I'm glad I did and if our going back to especially Tule Lake and Minidoka, I would try to find the blocks that my family was kept at.

AT: 01:30:29 Well is, are there any final things that you'd like to add or anything that we may have missed?

NK: 01:30:36 Uh, no. I think that's it. I don't know if your oral history project is going to include more than just the experiences associated with the, uh, with the, uh, settlement, you know, the resettlement and the camp kind of thing. But if it does, then, you know, I've got more stories to tell.

AT: 01:31:09 Well, thank you so much for taking the time today and coming to speak with us.

NK: 01:31:13 Oh, you're welcome. It was uh, you, you both made it very enjoyable to, to do this. And I had it sound like I could, like, I knew what I was talking about [laughs].

AT: 01:31:27 Thank you again.

I2: 01:31:27 Thank you very much.

NK: 01:31:27 Oh, you're welcome.