[NOTE: This transcript has not undergone a final proofreading and may contain
errors. It is being provided in draft form to enhance access to the video recording. As soon as possible, it will be replaced with a final, corrected transcript and will be synced to the video to provide clickable timecodes.]Anna Takada: 00:00 To start, can you just state your full name?
Fumino Knox: 00:03 Okay. My full name is, uh, Fumino Tsuchiya-Knox.
AT: 00:08 And where and when were you born?
FK: 00:10 I was born in Manzanar, in the camp. Um, February 20th, 1945. February
26th, 1945. Excuse me.AT: 00:20 And um, so like I mentioned, we're, we're interested in hearing about
what happened with people's families during the war. So can you explain, uh, where your parents are from? How they ended up there?FK: 00:35 Yeah, well, my, um, my father is a first generation Japanese American.
He came to this country in very late 1915. Um, originally to the West Coast. And then he lived in Chicago, uh, for a number of years before the war. My mother, uh, was born in Sacramento. She was a second generation. Um, and her parents were both from Japan. Uh, she was, she grew up in Los Angeles. And, uh, in 1936, my father's uncle arranged their marriage. He knew some people in Los Angeles and he thought my father should get married. And so he arranged for my father to meet my mother in Los Angeles. And after that, they moved to Chicago and they lived in Chicago in the 30s, prior to, uh, the war. In 1940, they moved, they were going to go back to Japan and Manchuria actually, but, um, they came through Los Angeles to see my mother's mother and say goodbye. And the Japanese community in Los Angeles was so concerned about possibility of war that they said, wait until tensions have calmed down. Don't go now or you might not be able to come back. So they were in Los Angeles, uh, when the war broke out. Um, and then they were sent to Manzanar.AT: 02:15 What did your parents or your father do?
FK: 02:19 My father was the curator of a private museum in Chicago of the
Harding Museum, which uh, housed European arms and armor. It's in the Chicago Art Institute now. Um, my mother was a housewife basically.AT: 02:38 And um, so he, he came to the U.S. in?
FK: 02:44 In 1915 and then he came to Chicago in the early twenties.
AT: 02:50 Early twenties.
FK: 02:50 And he worked at this museum from around mid-twenties until 1940.
AT: 02:57 Was he involved in similar work in Japan?
FK: 03:00 No, he came when he was 16, so. He came because his father had come to
America in 1906 when my dad was only six years old. And um, in 1915 or 16', um, his, my father's mother wanted him to come to America to get his father and bring his father home and he did, you know, meet his father and the father went home. But my father stayed here.AT: 03:32 Um that's quite a story.
FK: 03:39 Yeah.
AT: 03:40 One that you don't hear often. Um, so
FK: 03:47 Yeah, actually. I mean, part of the reason I think that my father's
father came to America was in Japan. There is a custom for, um, families to have a, if they don't have any male children, to have a man, uh, take on the family name and essentially marry into the family. So my father's mother's family had not had any male children for like five generations and had, had men married into the family all that time. So my father's father married into my father's mother's family. And usually those kinds of arrangements, they weren't very happy ones. Um, the men were not respected that much, I think. And so I think that was part of the reason why his dad had come to America. Yeah.AT: 04:43 And then can you tell me a little bit more about, um, so after they
had stopped, what they thought was just stopping through L.A.FK: 04:55 Right.
FK: 04:55 Did they, how long were they there?
FK: 04:59 They were in L.A. for about a year and a half or so. Um, they actually
started a nursery in Culver City and we're running that when the war broke out.AT: 05:12 And were they staying with your mom's mom?
FK: 05:14 No, they were living on their own.
AT: 05:17 Yeah.
FK: 05:19 And then my older sister had been born in Chicago and she was about
six months old when they moved, you know, when they came up to Los Angeles.AT: 05:28 Was she the only child at the time of the war?
FK: 05:31 Yeah.
AT: 05:33 Um, and then can you tell me about, uh, what happened when the
Evacuation Orders went out? Where they were sent?FK: 05:40 Well, um, they were, they decided to volunteer to go early to camp, so
they weren't sent to, uh, one of the, um, temporary detention centers. They just went straight to Manzanar and I believe they got there about March of, uh, 42'. May?LourdesNicholls: 06:05 April 8th.
FK: 06:06 Okay, April 8th of 42'.
AT: 06:12 And, um.
FK: 06:14 And my grandmother, my mother's mother, you know, had been living in
Los Angeles all this time. And um, she came to live with my parents in the camp. Yeah. So that they would be together.AT: 06:31 So does that mean they were a family unit of?
FK: 06:36 Right.
AT: 06:37 That would be for including your sister.
FK: 06:39 Including my sister, yeah.
AT: 06:40 And what do you, what do you know about their early experiences in Manzanar?
FK: 06:48 You know, I, um, my mother used to talk about it. My father didn't so
much, but um, you know, she did talk about having to make the mattresses with the straw. She talked about how terrible the food was and how they had to use yellow dye to dye the lard or whatever it was to substitute for, um, butter. And that everyone wanted rice and there wasn't any, you know, rice for dinner and that type of thing. And the dust, the dust everywhere. That was really hard I think.AT: 07:29 And then, um, you were born in 45'?
FK: 07:33 Right Just six months or so before we left. So I really don't have any
memories of camp.AT: 07:41 Do you know, and do you have any information about kind of the, the
conditions, um, at the time of your birth or you know, hearing stories from your parents?FK: 07:50 Well, it was interesting. Um, my father had been going out to find the
job, uh, you know, starting from I guess 44' or so. Uh, my mother had gone with him at least once, I believe, to Chicago, possibly to New York also. Um, but then she came back and he, um, was working I think in Seabrook at the farms in New Jersey, or um, at the time I was born. Um, so I've always sort of theorized that my mother probably got pregnant when they were off on one of the trips since they had to live together with my grandmother in the barracks at camp. So anyway, um, I just, you know, no, I was born in the hospital there, but I really hadn't heard in much else about that.AT: 08:50 And then, um, do you know what the process was like for them leaving camp?
FK: 08:57 Well, again, my father looked quite a, you know, in quite a number of
places and he, um, spoke both Japanese and he was quite fluent in English. He, which he learned on his own, so he had I think, looked for jobs, um, translating or teaching, uh, Japanese. And he found a job, um, in Stillwater, Oklahoma at the university. Uh, there they had a program, uh, by the Navy, um, for teaching Navy officers, Japanese. And, uh, we found a postcard that he sent from there telling my mother to pack up her bags and get a ticket for everyone to go to Stillwater. Um, and so they moved there and they were there for about, um, let's see, from 45' to 47'. And then he got a job with the U.S. Army to translate for the war crimes trials in Japan. And so, um, he went to Japan. Uh, my mother, grandmother and sister and I went to a housing project in Richmond, California, which was originally built for all the African Americans that moved up from the South to build shifts during the war. But after the war, a number of Japanese who had been in the camps were sent there for their first housing. And so we lived there for a year. And then in 48', um, my mother and grandmother and sister and I, um, all went on a boat to Japan to be with my father. And then we lived in Army officers' housing, um, in the middle of Tokyo, which was, it was kind of interesting. It was called Jefferson Heights and it was almost like a suburb. There were, um, two story houses. Uh, I mean it was pretty luxurious to me after living in a housing project in Richmond. And so we lived there for a year.AT: 11:26 And where are your first memories?
FK: 11:29 My first memories are from Richmond, California, yeah.
AT: 11:32 Like what do you remember about it?
FK: 11:35 Oh, it was, um, well, I remember I was sitting in a high chair and
wanting some mush for breakfast. But, um, it was, I mean, I remember the building, it was like a fourplex. Um, right from the train tracks on the other side of the train tracks. There were, um, greenhouses where the Japanese Americans used to grow flowers for the market in San Francisco. And, um, I just remember there was no bathtub in the apartment, there was only a shower. And so my mother and grandmother used to fill this huge tub with water to give us our baths. Um, my sister went to school there. She was five years older than I was. Um, but I wasn't yet of school age, you know. So I started school actually in the Army officers' nursery school for their kids in Japan. And my mother says that was when I first really started speaking English for the first time, that I had been speaking Japanese until then.AT: 12:53 Interesting. And so you were there for a year and
FK: 13:00 For a year.
AT: 13:00 Was it in Tokyo?
FK: 13:03 It was right in Tokyo. We used to be able to see a general MacArthur
going to the Diet building. Yeah. And I remember going around the, um, Imperial Palace with my grandmother and seeing the koi in the moat around the palace. Yeah.AT: 13:23 And so who are you in that, those your first schooling? So who were
you in class with?FK: 13:29 Well, again it was with, uh, Army officers children, so was mainly
Caucasians, I guess it was nursery school and I wasn't there very long, I think it was maybe, um, three or four months or so. The fall semester, um, in 1949. And then we came home to, I mean we came back to Los Angeles.AT: 13:57 Um, and um, the move back to Los Angeles. Can you tell me a little
about what, why you all moved in? And how long you stayed there?FK: 14:07 Well, I guess the, uh, they didn't need my dad anymore with the war
crimes trials. I guess they were starting to wind up. So we came back to Los Angeles. I remember we lived for a couple of months in a little apartment and then we found a house to rent in Boyle Heights, which was the neighborhood that the Japanese used to live in before the war. And there were still a number of Japanese there, but by that time it was mainly a Mexican American. And um, yeah, I started grammar school there, you know.AT: 14:50 And how long were there in L.A.?
FK: 14:53 Um, I was in L.A. until, uh, gosh, after college, after I got married and
AT: 15:00 So you, that's kind of where your family settled?
FK: 15:05 Mhm. My dad had a hard time finding work. Um, I think he worked for a
couple of weeks selling vacuum cleaners door to door. I mean, he was totally not cut out for that. Um, and then he became a gardener, which was what, you know, a lot of Japanese men were doing. Um, and he did that for about four years, four or five years I guess. And then he was able to start a nursery, uh, out in Compton. And, um, he did that for another five years or so. And then when he was 60, he bought a picture framing business and he started on that and worked on that for 20 years after that.AT: 15:59 And can you tell me about kind of, I guess, you know, you growing up
in Boyle Heights, um, did uh, were you aware of your, your family's, experiences during the war and internment?FK: 16:19 I was, it was really interesting. Um, my mother was a lot more open
about it. You know, my dad was very bitter about it and really kind of broken by the whole experience because of the fact that he couldn't get a good job afterwards. Um, but my mother, I think for her it was nice because she was with the community from Los Angeles that she had grown up with. So she had a lot of girlfriends that, you know, were also sent to Manzanar. Um, and, but one thing was really interesting before I started kindergarten, I remember she told me very specifically, she said, if they ever ask you where you were born, you should say, Manzanar War Relocation Center, Owens Valley, California. And a, it just always struck me. I'm sorry. Anyway, I think she just wanted to say, you know, there's nothing to be ashamed of. Sorry.AT: 17:46 No, no. You can let me know if you want me to stop filming.
FK: 17:57 No it's okay, it's funny, I've never really cried about this before.
But it was a powerful seeing the exhibit here.AT: 18:10 And is that something that, did you take her advice? Did you
FK: 18:14 I did. I always, yeah. Um, yeah, that was kind of strange. Um, you
know, I did talk with her about it and she said that, uh, all the Japanese had to go there. Um, you know, but somehow we were not there anymore and that, I just remember it was around the same time when, um, there was talk about how Russia was such an enemy of the United States. And I mean, I must've been older than kindergarten, but I was still very young and in grammar school. And I remember talking to her about that because I said, I thought the Germans were our enemies in World War II. And she said, yes, but now the Russians are enemies. And the whole thing about the camp kind of struck me the same way that it was something that, you know, it was one way then and now it's different now. Um, so anyways, kind of interesting. Uh, when I got started school in Los Angeles, um, there was still a lot of prejudice, you know, um, I don't think I experienced it really badly, but I know some of the kids in the school, their parents had been in the military and all and um, they would be wearing like Army jackets or that type of thing, you know, or those jackets from Japan at that time that had all this embroidery on it and were very flashy that, you know, their fathers had gotten them when they were in the military there. Um, and then I remember my sixth grade teacher, so this would have been in about 1955 or so, um, were talking about the camps and you know, he was a wonderful teacher, we all loved him, but he said, well, you know, that the Japanese were sent there for their own good. That, um, the government was protecting them by sending them to the camps. And, you know, I just, uh, have always been struck by that, because I didn't think that was the case then, but I certainly wasn't going to say that to him.AT: 20:53 Um, were there other, um, were you around other Japanese Americans who
have been incarcerated?FK: 21:03 Uh, yes, we were. And in fact, another boy, um, in my class was also
born at Manzanar. And we were friends with his family and yeah, every one who was Japanese American that we knew had been in camp. Yeah.AT: 21:23 And in that class specifically were you, were there, other Japanese Americans?
FK: 21:26 There were a few, um, but you know, Boyle Heights, uh, you know, it
had been, um, a place where a lot of Japanese Americans lived before the war. But like I was saying, by the time we were there, it was mainly, um, Mexican American. So there were just maybe four or five of us in the class, but there were others, you know, it wasn't like I was the only one. And then it was interesting from Boyle Heights, which was not that great a neighborhood. Um, when I was starting junior high, my parents moved to Gardena, which is a suburb of Los Angeles. Um, I remember my mother asking the realtor if Japanese were allowed to buy homes in Gardena. And the man said, Oh yes, no, we don't like Negroes, but Japanese are welcome, very welcome here. And uh, that community in fact was heavily Japanese. The high school was about a third Japanese, um, kids in the school. So it was, it was a very different experience from Boyle Heights, which was very poor. Um, and uh, mainly like gardeners and you know, that type of thing. And whereas Gardena was more a lower middle class suburb, everyone had homes and very neat.AT: 23:04 Umm. I'm still thinking about, um, what your sixth grade teacher said.
FK: 23:12 Oh yeah.
AT: 23:16 I know you said that you didn't, you know, say anything, but what was,
what, what was, do you remember what was going on through your mind, when he said that?FK: 23:26 Well, I was thinking a little bit that, that I hadn't thought before
what it would have been like if we had stayed and that, yeah. In fact, it might've been kind of dangerous, you know, so that was part of it. But the other part was that I knew it was wrong that they did that and that was what he wasn't acknowledging with what he said, you know, so it just, it was hurtful. It was very hurtful. Yeah.AT: 24:01 And did you, as you were growing up, um, well, and I'm sorry, right.
At what point did your family move to Gardena?FK: 24:09 Ah, that would have been about 1956 that we moved to Gardena.
AT: 24:14 And then, um, let's see. You were probably middle school age?
FK: 24:20 Yeah. Mhm. Seventh grade. Yeah.
AT: 24:22 And then how long has your family there?
FK: 24:25 Um, my parents were there until they passed away in the early
nineties. Yeah. And I was there, uh, through high school. I graduated in 1962. Um, I went to Occidental College in Los Angeles. And that's where I met my husband and we, he was from Berkeley, so we moved up to Berkeley then.AT: 24:53 Um
FK: 24:57 Oh, I, I guess I should tell you about growing up too, that, um, there
was sort of, this schizophrenic push to, you know, from my parents, to both be all American as well as to retain the Japanese traditions. So I did go to Japanese school every day after school. Yeah. All through grammar school and then on Saturday's all through junior high and halfway through high school, um, to learn Japanese. Um, but then at the same time, you know, they just, they really wanted me to excel in school. Um, but then for example, when I was going to go to college, um, I had taken a tour and decided I really liked Occidental College and that was where I wanted to go. My mother kept trying to, um, make me decide to go to UCLA. And the main reason was she said there were a lot of Japanese kids there and she, I think she always thought, um, I would be safer and treated well if I were in some place where there are a lot of Japanese. So, like even after I started working, every job I had, she would ask how many Japanese work there, you know, are they nice to you and that type of thing.AT: 26:24 Uh, I'm, I'm curious to hear what your thoughts are on, um, what you
think some of the big impacts and legacies of the camp have been on you? And it's, you know, it's, it's unique in that you were born in camp, you don't have any memories, so, um, whatever you do know or feel is probably passed down.FK: 26:51 From my parents
AT: 26:52 From your parents. yet at the same time you were there.
FK: 26:56 Yes.
AT: 26:57 So I'm wondering if you could, um, just think about and tell me about
what you think has been kind of passed down and then maybe what you've experienced, you know, internally, yourself?FK: 27:10 Right, right. Um, well, like I said, my father was very, very bitter
about the experience and I think it was so humiliating for him. Um, he had been the curator of this museum that had this wonderful European arms and armor before the war. And then in the camp, he, they actually asked him to start a museum there. What for, you know, they didn't have a collection of anything, obviously. So he started a museum that just had, um, things from around the land where the camp was, uh, the geography of the land and then items that the internees made that they could display. Uh, and then they try to get photographs of the outside world because it was also trying to teach the children what it was like outside. But it was like such a poor, um, comparison to what he had been used to doing. Um, that, you know, like I say, it was very humiliated by it. Um, and I think he was depressed basically the rest of his life because he didn't talk about it. He, you know, was angered really easily and, oh, I'm sure it was hard. He was already older as a parent, you know, my, he was 36 or 40, rather, he was 40 when my sister was born. He was 45 when I was born. Um, and I'm sure it must've been really difficult to think that he had to raise these children still and now, you know, uh, after the Japan, uh, war crimes trials, it was really hard to find a job. So that just always made me so sorry for him. Um, you know, like I say for my mother, I think it was easier. And then she also got my grandmother living with us, a mixed blessing, I'm sure. But my grandmother basically raised my sister and me. My mother worked, um, after that, uh, she started actually to work for this chain of yarn stores and she became a manager of the warehouse that she used to manage about 20 or more people. Um, so for her, the fact that my dad wasn't able to provide, now she sort of came into her own after the war. Um, so that sort of also, you know, it was that dichotomy of how they came out of it differently and how they viewed that experience differently. That I think gave me mixed emotions about it. Um, but I think I always, until the late sixties, when the, um, ethnic identity movements started, I had always been rather ashamed of the whole thing because, you know, no one talked about it. It wasn't in the history books. Um, so it always seemed to me it was shameful. Um, I didn't like to feel associated with the Japanese or with Japan, certainly. Um, and in like 1970, we lived in Berkeley then and I went to a lecture at Cal by a Japanese American professor who talked about the camps and it was just such a moving experience to hear that, you know, in an auditorium where there were people around really something. Um, but it's, I think on the whole until, uh, my parents passed away and then my second husband passed away at the same time, um, in the early nineties, I really was kind of trying to run away from the whole Japanese culture and Japanese American culture become really white. And I think it was only when they had all passed away that I was on my own and, uh, really felt a longing for everything I had lost and really tried to kind of go back and get closer to my roots. And, uh, you know, like I've joined this, uh, group in the Bay Area of Sansei, third generation Japanese Americans, which is really good. It started as a support group around the time of the, uh, Redress Movement and where people were, um, most of those people in the Sansei group with me, their parents hadn't talked about the Camps at all and they just learned about it for the first time, uh, with the Redress Movement. So they were also in their own way trying to find their roots again. And so it's been a real good group and we still meet once a month and, uh, it's really, it's really good. Um.AT: 32:54 Before, um, um, coming back to your roots and seeking out, um, you
know, groups like this Sansei group, did you ever speak about it with peers at all, or your sister, or how did that come up in conversation?FK: 33:13 Yeah, I did. And, um, you know, people were usually so surprised to
hear about it. Everyone, you know, have friends, non-Japanese friends, they just, they'd never heard about it and uh, they were really astonished. But they also, I don't think knew the whole scope of it for a long time because it's only in the last 20 years say that the knowledge has become more widespread about what it was like. Um, my sister and I would talk about it but she was, um, like two to five when she was in the camp and she had basically very good memories about it, you know, as a child and she went to nursery school and kindergarten and everything. So for her it was a real positive experience.AT: 34:18 Um, one thing I wanted to ask was, uh, so you've described your
experiences for your parents after camp. Did they ever consider moving back to Chicago or um out of California?FK: 34:37 Yeah, it was, well, like I said, during the war, when my dad went to
look for work, he did look in Chicago and um, I'm not exactly sure why they didn't try it again after being in Japan. But it may just be because my mother had more connections with the community in Los Angeles. Uh, my mother's sister lived in Los Angeles too, so I think maybe my grandmother wanted to be close to her. Yeah.AT: 35:13 And do you know, um, one of the things that we have been interested
in, um, throughout this project is kind of hearing about Chicago. So I'm just wondering if you happen to know anything, more about, um, your dad's time and experiences here, or was he involved in any kind of Japanese American community or what was that like for him?FK: 35:41 No, I don't think there was any at that time, at least that he knew
of. Um, he had one Japanese friend who was, uh, from Japan, uh, who, who had come here on a, um, like a business, his business had sent him here. He had worked for a textile factory and in Japan. And the company sent him here to learn more about textile production in America. And he essentially didn't go back and just stayed, um, and was a cook in like wealthy families households. And that was his only friend here. Um, they, I know my parents and this friend, uh, did try opening a restaurant, a Japanese restaurant before the war, and we have some photos of them when they opened it. But apparently very soon after they opened it, there was some type of diplomatic affair between the U.S. and Japan and business just really dropped off and they could never make a go of it. So they had to close it. Yeah.AT: 37:02 Do you have any idea or sense of what part of the city he was in?
FK: 37:06 He was in, um, close to Hyde Park or actually in Hyde Park? Um, yeah.
And we do know the address they lived at and like the 5400 block of Dorchester.AT: 37:25 Um, so we can be wrapping up, but I have a few more questions. Um, so
we've, we've talked a little bit about, um, kind of how the stories have been passed down or not. Um, and I'm wondering when you started to have children, what were your, um, what were your views or your thoughts about sharing um, your family's story with your kids?FK: 37:53 Yeah, well, I definitely did share the family story and, um, you know,
that's why I think my daughter Lourdes is so interested in it. Um, but you know, at that time, and I really feel kind of badly about it, but I was still in the mode of not really accepting my Japanese heritage. So I, I wasn't speaking Japanese and I didn't make a big point about their learning of that Japanese culture. I know Lourdes wanted to learn Japanese. And I did take, uh, she and her sister to Japanese school for awhile on Saturdays at the Buddhist church in Oakland. Um, but it was, it was just too difficult because I wasn't speaking at home. Um, so, you know, they gave it up after awhile. Um, and it's so interesting. Uh, her daughter, Mari now, uh, started learning Japanese at this Montessori school that she went to after school while she was in grammar school cause the woman was from Japan who ran the school and taught Japanese there. And so in high school, Mari, um, took Japanese as a class and then the whole Japanese class went to Japan for a exchange program. And, um, Mari just loves it. And the first time she went to Japan and she came back, I met her at the airport and I remember she said. I'm gonna cry again too. She said, grandma, I'm so proud that I'm Japanese. And that was just the most, um, moving thing I had ever experienced because I could never say that. Yeah. It was really wonderful. Yeah. And uh, I mean, she's blonde haired and it's gray eyes, but she's speaking Japanese, she's majoring in Japanese and she's going to go to Japan to study and she wants to live there. She says, I don't know. She'll follow through on that. But, um, so anyway, she has gotten me re interested in Japanese and I started taking Japanese again, um, this year and it's been really great because it's all coming back. Um, yeah. So it's, it's great.AT: 40:42 One thing I like to ask folks, um, is if you can, if you could pass
down any kind of legacy year or message to your, your grandchildren, to your children and your grandchildren, what, what would you want to leave them with?FK: 41:06 Well, I certainly want them to remember the history of what happened
and um, you know, really make sure it doesn't happen again. Yeah. And you know, and to be proud of their heritage. I think that's, that's really important and I really feel sad that, you know, it took me so much time to get to that point, that I could feel that way.AT: 41:45 Thank you so much for the time to speak with me.
FK: 41:49 Oh well, thanks so much.
AT: 41:51 Is there anything, anything else that you'd like to add or that I
might've missed?FK: 41:56 No, I, well I was going to say one thing about my mother's family in
uh, in the little Tokyo before the war, which was kind of interesting. Um, her father ran a gull parlor in their living room. That was how he mainly made his living. Um, but it was an interesting time in the 19 teens and twenties in little Tokyo. Um, there's a lot there to my, my mother and her sister were in a number of movies of Japanese movies made at that time down there and um, you know, that that whole community that existed at that time was really wonderful, really close. And something, another piece of history to really remember. Yeah, yeah.AT: 42:47 I actually did remember one thing that I wanted to be sure to ask
about. Um, so as you know Lourdes, um, has done presentations about, um, some of your family's experiences and I know she's covered particularly about your father's museum in camp. Um, I'm just wondering if, how, how did your family compile all of this information? Cause it's, umFK: 43:22 You know, my mother just saved everything. Um, I have about, gosh,
maybe 10 big cartons of plastic cartons at home filled with photographs. We have photographs from the 1890s in Japan to, you know, through the whole time period in Los Angeles of my mother growing up. And uh, so she saved all these documents from camp and from the museum. She had photo albums that my dad was a photographer, you know, hobby, his hobby was photography. And so he had taken a lot of photographs of the museum too, in Chicago. So we had all that. So it was oh, um, you know, I guess that was something else I didn't mention was all of that for me growing up was also such a contrast to the camp experience that it was always almost surreal that my parents had these lives before the war that were so, um, I don't know exactly what to call it, kind of rooted in either the community in Los Angeles or like rooted in that profession that my dad had. Uh, and then it was all lost and it was almost like we were just starting from scratch after the war without any history, you know. But I would say these things in the albums and, um, putting that together with our present circumstances was really, really something that's difficult to do for me. Yeah.AT: 45:22 Well, if you don't have anything else to add, um, thank you so much
again for your time.FK: 45:28 Oh, well thank you so much.
2
