Koizumi, Edward (5/12/2021)

Emma Saito Lincoln (EL): Today is May 12, 2021, and this oral history is being recorded at the Japanese American Service Committee building at 4427 North Clark Street in Chicago, Illinois. The interviewer is Emma Saito Lincoln, and the interviewee is Edward Shinichi Koizumi. This interview is being recorded by the JASC Legacy Center in order to document the experiences of Japanese Americans in the Chicago area. So let's begin with just a little bit of background about you, and if you could please state your full name for me.

Edward Koizumi (EK): Oh, my name is Edward Shinichi Koizumi.

EL: Thank you, and what's your year of birth?

EK: Oh, uh born 1950.

EL: Alright, and where were you born?

EK: I was born in Nambu-cho, Yamanashi-ken, Japan. And this would have been the ancestral home of my maternal grandfather whom we're talking about today.

EL: Right, and how old were you when you first came to the U.S.?

EK: Um, it was 1955, so I would have been four and a half. And just a little bit before starting kindergarten, kindergarten would have come about half a year later, and you know coming to America was quite a shock in that you know I think the first thing we did was start taking off our shoes as we entered the apartment in Chicago and my grandparents saying "Oh no, no in, in America we don't have to take off our shoes." And I, we thought that was quite, quite a shock I thought.

EL: And, I understand that your family's journey to the U.S. actually began much earlier than your arrival, so could you tell me a little bit about the first people?

EK: Actually it was great-- yeah, actually it was great-grandfather. His name was Bunjiro Koizumi, and he had come to the United States at the age of 21. And 00:02:00I couldn't tell you what year it was, I, sorry I didn't do the research there. But, he called for his son, which would have been my grandfather, Seiichi Koizumi and Seiichi came when he was 16-years-old and-- And this would have been the Seattle area. And you know there were various work for you know, immigrants. I remember him talking about working in a canning company, I think they were you know, canning salmon. And he was a young man so he would you know be up in the, you know near the top of the, of the mechanism, you know this, this big assembly-line machine. And he would be loading the, the empty cans on top. And so these empty cans would be coming down the chute and all these people would be very busily, you know packing the uh, the cans with, with fish. And then, you know one of the stories-- and he was, I think a bit of a devil, even as a, as a 00:03:00young man. He said every so often you know he would, rather than putting the cans in this way as he should, he'd see the people working below, working very hard and sweating, he said "Oh I'll put the can in this way" and then this can would go down the chute and jam up the machine. (laughs) And, and then everybody got a 15-minute break while the engineers you know came out and they had to clear the machine. Anyway, that's the kind of person that he was I think. (laughs) So, he did various kinds of work, um-- There was a lot of produce going-- a lot of, uh growing and so uh-- I'm not so sure he did that much farming he didn't, you know say that much about that, but he was doing you know clerking, and working in grocery stores, even at one point he traveled and he was working at a railroad line and they said uh, one of the things that he did 00:04:00was to jump on the train as it left the station, and then he would work his way up to the, the lantern of this, of the, the steam engine clean it off, and then as soon as that was clean, he would jump off, and then he'd you know walk back to the station and so, so he said, "You know the faster you work the, the shorter a trip it was back to the station!" So I, I think he had quite a colorful career.

EL: Was he in Seattle that whole period?

EK: Uh he was, um until um-- Well let's see. Well, when he was 20 he went back to, to J- to Japan, and my older sister June was saying that there was a change in the law which would have made it more difficult for, for immigrants to bring people over, your family members over. So they, they learned about that so he thought that was a good opportunity to get married, so he went back to the old 00:05:00village and, and he married a uh, a woman that he had known previously. Um, and then, then he went back to America, to, to work some more and to make enough money so that he could bring his wife over, and so she came over, and-- So I guess she would have been 20. Um, I asked my grandmother, her name would be Rei Koizumi, her maiden name was Sano, if she was afraid of coming to, you know, a new country without you know, knowing the language, and she said, "No". And I was, really quite surprised that uh, that she was so adventurous and bold like that, and but I think maybe that was, you know her personality. And, and I think for people who are immigrants to the United States, you know they wanted something better for themselves. Um, now I was born, coincidentally I was born in the same uh house, that he had lived in, and uh-- And you know the area is 00:06:00rural, it's a, it's a mountain valley, and people were, you know, subsistence farmers. You know they grew rice and they grew vegetables for themselves, and there wasn't a whole lot of spending money, you know there wasn't any cash crops, so you know I think a lot of the adventuresome people you know, wanted something better for themselves and decided to, to head off. And America was the um, you know the place of opportunity then.

EL: Do you know if your grandparents or your great-grandfather lived near other Japanese immigrant families?

EK: There must have been because I think a lot of immigrants, you know they're fortunate enough to, um you know have the community of, of people from their-- you know, of their own nationality. Although he was very early on, probably would have been in, in the earliest peoples. So, you know, I-- that I do not know and, you know unfortunately at this point, there's no one left to ask you 00:07:00know a lot of these questions that we might have! And you know when I was younger well, you know these weren't questions that I had. I pretty much you know took for granted that you know here we were you know in this country and uh, you know, a-and living f-fairly well. And hadn't really appreciated the hard work and the, you know and perhaps the prejudices that they had to work through to get to you know where we were then.

EL: So we have your great-grandfather, comes to the U.S. then calls his son over,

EK: That's right.

EL: --and that would be your grandfather who then returned to Japan to find a wife, t-to marry someone actually he knew before. Then he comes back to the U.S. and then she follows once there's enough money.

EK: That's correct, yeah, a little while later yeah.

EL: And then could you fill in a little bit of what happened after that?

EK: Okay so this was still in Seattle, um-- I think it was about, oh maybe 10, 12 years later that, that Grandfather's father Bunjiro decides to go back to 00:08:00Japan. And he goes back to Japan permanently. And at this point the young couple moves down to the Los Angeles area, and I don't know when, you know, the children came along, but uh, their first, you know their, the eldest, their, their daughter, named Lily Hisae sh- she came along first and then came Herbert Shuichi and then the youngest was Wood Masao Koizumi and, and then Grandfather got into the uh, the produce business, being a greengrocer. He would drive his truck to the various growers in the area, you know load up his truck and then bring it down to his market and then he would display them 00:09:00and you know people would come and um, you know and buy the goods. I think he had a number of different stores, you know, you know not simultaneously but he would start-- you know he would start simply and the first store seemed more like a stall and then I think he had a few, and then by the time 1945 came along he-- it was, or, '41, it was a fairly large store that he had had.

EL: Do you know what the name of his store was?

EK: It had a number of different names because he would you know buy, buy one and then he'd sell that and buy, you know, and then upgrade. And, well one of the, the store names was called Sam's and, and you know h-he di-- he wouldn't bother to change the sign, I mean why, you know, why waste the money to change the sign, and then people started calling him Sam 'cuz, you know, he was the 00:10:00owner, and so he decided, 'Well Sam's a good name' (laughs) and so I think that's how he, he got his American name. And, you know I guess our family tended to uh, adopt American names just to make it simpler, you know, for us to navigate. So he became Sam. I don't believe my grandmother ever took a American name though she was always Rei. Um, but you know the uh, the children had American names. Uh--

EL: So then, what happened in 1941 or leading up to 1941?

EK: Well you know, when, well shortly before, well before Pearl Harbor, my grandmother had taken the, the three children back to the old village in Japan. I've heard a couple of different versions of this. I thought they were just to visit family, but they were there a number of months so-- I, I don't know if you know some people had an inkling that there would be trouble ahead so, I thought 00:11:00you know this would have been a very, you know difficult decision but, you know to, t-to split up the family. But Grandmother, you know, took the three children you know back to Japan, and Grandfather stayed in Los Angeles. I think they were living in Santa Monica at the time but his business was in Los Angeles. You know, to continue you know minding his business. And then you know Pearl Harbor was struck and that pretty much closed the Pacific and, and so the family was separated for you know those years of the, of the war.

EL: And then what happened to your grandfather?

EK: Well Grandfather would've had to liquidate the business he didn't say if he got much money for that, but he ended up in Manzanar, which is in the s-, you know, southern part of California. And I guess a lot of people from the Los Angeles-Seattle area were put into that particular camp. You know there were, you know I guess 10 camps altogether. So, he was pretty much there during, you 00:12:00know, for the duration.

EL: Is that, a period of his life that he talked about much when you were growing up?

EK: Uh, just a few stories, I knew that he had learned woodworking there, since the um... I, I guess the folks were saying, you know the men were saying, "Well since we're going to have to be here, you know, is there something that we could learn, and something that would be useful?"And so a woodshop was set up for them, and, and I've got a picture of my grandfather, you know, learning wood- woodworking. Because I think this was something different that he had not had much exposure to and this is a-- (grabs photograph) a photograph that always hung in his workshop. (*Refers to off camera) Do you have that Maria? So you 00:13:00know the men are standing in front of various machines, about a dozen of them and actually, I r-- this, here's my grandfather here. And this man here standing right next to him I believe that's Mr. Kondo who was a family friend whom we knew in Chicago. So you know this is in California so a number of the, the people would have traveled Eastward after, after the war.

EL: Do you know if during that time while he was incarcerated and his wife and children were in Japan, were they able to communicate with each other at all?

EK: They w-, yeah they, they were able to write letters, and, and I have a few of those letters. And, and you know some of those are, you know have black marks on there. And they had been opened, and there would be a sticker on the envelope saying censored by you know, the, the war department and so-- You know, any correspondence going back and forth you know would be looked at, you know, by 00:14:00the government.

EL: And then eventually, as he left Manzanar, do you know when and how he left?

EK: He left a few months before war's end, and I guess they were sp-- People who were given special grants to, to leave the camp. And-- as long as they would be going East rather than, you know to, you know t-to the West. So, so he chose Chicago, I don't know why Chicago, but there was a, a Japanese Americans living there then. And so you know they may, they may have suggested that he come there. And so he had to start over again, and there was a, a man named Mr. Okuhara who, I believe worked with him at the um, at the uh, the farmers market 00:15:00in Santa Monica. Where-- --And so these two men got together and pooled their money, and they were able to buy an apartment building. And you know, this would have been important for Japanese Americans because they were coming displaced, and they were coming East and they needed a place to stay and they were still, you know they were you know suffering some discrimination. So this would have been a safe place for them to have an apartment. And then my grandfather, you know this became his second career, becoming a landlord. So he had this building-- So in 1955 when, you know my family, you know came to Chicago he was living on LaSalle Street and that was another building that he had bought. So at this point he had one, and he had one on his ow-- by himself, and then you know the others he, you know he half-owned with Mr. Okuhara.

EL: Do you know the locations, or the addresses of those properties?

EK: The um, well, yeah when my, when my grandfather first came to Chicago, he 00:16:00was living in apartments on the Southside, and that was an enclave of Japanese Americans living there. But then the area that we you know, call Little Tokyo at the time was centered around like Clark Street and Division, and so his first building you know with Mr. Okuhara was like I want to say about 1200 North on Clark Street. And then the, the building that, that he lived in was at 1244 LaSalle Street so that would have been just a little North of Division.

EL: Thank you. So let's shift over to Japan for a little bit,

EK: Mhmm

EL: And, how much do you know about your grandmother's experience with her children during the war?

EK: The, well there was suffering there in, in Japan. You know Japan had started this thing and they thought they would win it but you know-- Well you know, 00:17:00hindsight being 20-20 how could, you know how could a small country like Japan compete against the United States with you know, all the manpower and, and, and all the resources that it had. And if you, you know, anger a, a country like that oh boy you know you're really in for it. But the Japanese government, you know the Japanese people fought the best they could. So they continued farming, and luckily they were in a farming area as opposed to the cities. Now the people in the cities, you know they didn't grow their own food so they were quite dependent on, on the government or you know on, on capitalism to have any, even, you know things to eat. So anyway, the farmers were a little bit luckier in that, you know they were able to grow their own food, although you know the problem was is that the Japanese government would confiscate the rice that, they that they grew. And, and then rice would be rationed back to them. Now, you know 00:18:00Japanese love fresh rice and especially farmers, and, and the rice that would be rationed back to them would be you know, old rice. So you know, they were, you know growing a new rice and then having that taken away from them. And then you know, they get old rice back. And then you know there would be relatives coming from the cities, and they would expect to be you know entertained and fed. And, then, you know before they left back into the city they would say, "Oh, oh by the way you know our family in, back in the city, you know we're, we're very hungry. Could you, you know, could you gift us with some food?" And then, you know the, the, the uncle would you know produce a big wrapping sack, you know furoshiki cloth and of course the family would have to you know put food in there and then he would tie it up and then thank them very much and then he'd go 00:19:00back to the city. And, you know, there was a lot of suffering on that side. I had known, I had known Iva Toguri who had, had troubles in, in Tokyo. And, and I could see how people in the cities would, you know would be very much, you know in duress because of lack of food and you know, and, and maybe the lack of support of the families close by.

EL: How old were the children at that point in time, do you know roughly?

EK: They were grade school, my, my mother would have been in high school and, and what's, what's hard for the, that the kids, is that now they're American citizens right because they're born in, in America. And so they would be singled out as Americans, and you know as being part of the enemy. Now my, let's see my, 00:20:00my mother would be in high school, and, and-- You know and when they started school in Japan and they had to go, you know go to school, they would have been put back a grade or two because their Japanese and their, their writing would not be up to, up to par with their, with their age group. And so that, that must have been difficult for them too.

EL: Did they talk about that much?

EK: No, but I've seen photographs of them. And, oh I don't know if, they, they, they, you know these old black-and-white photographs they look sad. (laughs) You know it, it, they to contrast that with the photographs of them taken in, in Santa Monica in Los Angeles when they were doing, you know when they, when they were prospering, you know in standing in front of their car, you know in nice 00:21:00clothing, smiling. And then you know a photograph that I, you know that I might see, in Ja-- you know from th-- of them in Japan, in their country clothes. And you know, these, these photographs would have been um, you know rather expensive to have so they were-- There's not that many of them but, you know, it, it looks, it looks, it looks hard.

EL: And, and then what happened as the war came to an end, to the piece of the family that was in Japan?

EK: Well, at war's end of course you know Grandmother would want to bring the family back together again. So she made arrangements to, you know to, to, to go back. But it turns out that my, you know their, their oldest daughter had voted in a Japanese election, and-- And this was new, you know to, for, for a woman to 00:22:00be able to vote in a Japanese election and it would have been the influence of the, of the U.S. occupying forces. And so when, women were allowed to vote there was a lot of excitement, you know and, and it could be that my, that my mother was kind of caught up in that excitement and she unwittingly voted. Now, what she didn't know was that as a U.S. citizen she should not have voted in a Japanese election. So, you know, when the government found out that she had done this, well then she was barred from going back to the U.S. So, so, so what could Grandmother do? You know what could her mother do? So she sent the sons back, and she had to stay back to be with her daughter. And, well, now she would have been about 18 or so, so she would have been a marriageable age. So that would 00:23:00have been the solution, so she, she cast her net to find an eligible young man to marry her. Now that's difficult, 'cause after the war there's so many, so many young men were killed. And um-- But what happened coincidentally with the man who would become my father, he had been fighting in Sumatra and he was a, a Signal Corpsman for the Imperial Army which meant that he would not be in, in the front lines. He would have been b-behind the front lines and the Signal Corpsman were very valued because, you know without them you, you can't send radio transmissions and, and such. And he especially knew the codes you know he knew the Morse codes and the encryption codes for the transmissions so-- He told me afterwards that well you know there was some suff- there was suffering of 00:24:00course in, in, all the, the Japanese units, but he said luckily he didn't get the worst of it. He was taken prisoner by the, by the British forces at the war's end, and what I found out later is that he was stuck in Sumatra for two years even after the war. The Japanese government could not, you know they didn't have the resources to bring back you know to repatriate their soldiers that were stranded you know in these various places so-- So about two years later they finally you know got a ship--

[recording paused and restarted]

EL: Okay so let's pick back up with after the war, and your grandmother seeking a suitable husband for her daughter who couldn't return to the United States.

EK: Yeah, that's right my, yeah my mother had voted in an election and, and that caused her to be barred from returning to the United States to rejoin her, her 00:25:00father. So, so my grandmother, or her mother would have to-- So she decided that she would have to find a, a suitable husband for her daughter so that she herself could return back to the United States so-- So she must have contacted all the people that she knew in the area, you know could there be a uh, you know for a, a suitable young man. And of course this was difficult right after the war because so many young men had been killed, but what had happened with my, with the man who would become my father, he had been fighting in Sumatra you know as a Signal Corpsman and-- But then at the, at war's end, they surrendered to the British forces there, but the Japanese government could not repatriate the stranded soldiers and so they had to bide their time there for, oh maybe a 00:26:00couple of years. And finally, a ship was sent to, to bring them back to Japan. So you know he goes back to Tokyo where he had, had a job, but Tokyo had been bombed out so then he went back to the old village. Now his old village was a neighboring village to where my grandfather's home was. So he, so, so when he returned, it was a-- It was the match that my, you know that, that my grandmother was looking for. And so, what's key here is that my father was the second born son of his family. Now the first born son you know his older brother, would have the, he would inherit the farm so he would inherit you know 00:27:00the, the fortune of the family you know, a-- but also you know would be the, the responsibility of taking care of the elderly parents. But then that left the second born son to seek his own fortune and to make his own way in the world. So this was advantageous for him too, in that you know he had very little but the, but the, the bargain that was struck was that he would now you know, marry the eldest daughter, I mean the, the oldest child, the, the daughter. But you know she was the eldest child, but then he would assume the position of the eldest son of the family. And he would change his name, he would change his name from Mochizuki, which was his name, to Koizumi. And, and then he and his new wife would move into the, the farmhouse and start a life there. And he didn't know 00:28:00that much about farming, so he had to learn and the Koizumi clan helped them, you know learn about farming, and he worked hard, and, and then the, and then they started having children. My older sister June was born, she was named Harumi at the time, you know she took on the name June afterwards so, probably because she was born in June. And then I came along, my name was Shinichi, I didn't take on Edward until we came to America, and then Michiko was the youngest and her name you know would be Grace. And so you know we lived in, and so I grew up on a farm and it was actually you know rather idyllic I thought you know we just play in the fields and the streams and there wasn't, you know we 00:29:00were too young for chores. You know that would come later I suppose. But then, the U.S. government relented and, and there were a number of I think Japanese Americans who had lost their way back to you know Japane-- I mean American citizen Japanese people who lost their way, not being able to you know go back to America. And so a lot of these people were then allowed to come back. And so this would have been 1955 that you know my parents affairs were cleared up and, and then we all came. You know for, for my father that must have been you know quite, quite a challenge because he didn't speak English, and you know truthfully you never did learn English that well. But you know, he was able to do well in this country and, and, an-and I think it was a, I think was a good 00:30:00bargain that he had struck and it was actually a, a good marriage. And you know they, they, they stayed together until my mother died at 85. And he would continue on till ninety-- till 98-- Anyway--

EL: Do you remember, you were quite a young child when you left Japan and came to the United States, do you remember how you felt at that age?

EK: Um, I think I must have been totally clueless. (laughs) Because, you know it seemed like one day I was playing with my, with my cousins and I must not have been-- I, I don't remember people bustling around, packing things and my, my older sister June was a year-and-a-half older, remembers that, you know there 00:31:00was a lot of sadness but... I was a little boy, I was 4 and I just remember being packed into a car and that was, that was a new experience for me being packed in a car. And I was you know, looking at the car and people were saying goodbyes I suppose, and, and then the next thing I know you know we're in, we're being taken to Tokyo. And I remember being on the tarmac of the airport, seeing the big engines of the, of the plane that we were going to take off in, you know revving up and the smoke coming out and I was just fascinated by that. But the thought that you know, I might not see you know, my, my, the family members that we left in Chic-- in, in Japan that did not occur to me. And so I think I just took things as they came.

EL: What are some of your strongest memories of that childhood on the farm?

EK: I th-- I think a lot of people have asked me you know, what do I remember? And for, you know I think for kids who have, you know been in the same house for their entire childhood you know it might be a, a big blur but you know there was quite a difference between you know the, the mountain valley in Japan, you know to Chicago so I do remember a lot of things. I think the earliest memory was me laying you know on the tatami, looking up at the ceiling, and there was a skylight and it was raining. And I hear the sound of the, the rain falling on the tin roof. We had a tin roof on our farmhouse, you know a lot of the houses along there had, had thatched roofs. And so after a big rain you know I would see the, the men on ladders you know trying to fix the, you know the holes, you know rearrange the thatch you know where the water had gotten in. I remember my 00:33:00parents taking us kids across a rickety bridge to the mountains, you know to collect mushrooms and to, you know we had a field of um-- I think we had a stand of bamboo there too. And my father would j-- I was too small you know to walk, so he would just throw me into a basket that he had on his back. So I would ride like that. My older sister, to this day she has a terrible-- She's, she's truly quite frightened by heights. And that was because you know she had to walk on the, the suspension bridge. And you know a number of the boards of the suspension bridge were broken so you know you could see the water rushing underneath and so she had to hop from board-to-board you know, you know, with my, taking my, my mother's hand of course but-- I'm sure that early experience just, just terrorized her to heights. I remember playing with my cousins, you 00:34:00know in the farms playing with crabs that were you know in the, in the riverbeds. Well, you know it was good times I thought.

EL: And then what do you remember about your arrival here in Chicago? Where did you live initially?

EK: So we, our, our plane touched down in Midway, Midway you know O'Hare was not built yet. And so Midway at the, you know in the 50s and 60s was known as the busiest airport you know in the world. And, you know which is kind of funny you know 'cause we think of Midway as kind of a, a postage stamp airplan-- airport in the middle of the, you know of the city right now. But, so you know we landed, and, and this would have been a four-engine Constellation you know airplane you know. So you know a big plane that would, you know drone on and on 00:35:00and on. I remember the, the trip across the Pacific was just ocean and ocean and then all of a sudden, well actually we touched down in San Francisco. And, and I don't remember the layover I, I remember having ice cream for the first time. And then we got on another airplane, I think the first one was Pan Am the second was Northwest Orient and, and then we came to, to Chicago. My grandfather picked us up, and he drove a Chevy Station Wagon, 1955 Bel Air. And it was, I think it was brand new at the time, so I was quite, you know quite impressed that you know that, that grandfather had, had his own car. So then he brought us to the apartment building at 1244 LaSalle Street, and the first few nights you know we stayed in their, in their apartment, it was pretty cramped. But then, my grandfather opened up a unit for us in an adjoining-- There were, there were 00:36:00these two buildings that were joined together through a hallway. And so we had a unit in, in that, in the next building and so, you know we started school at that point, you know living there. And you know we didn't move to another building at 1332 till I think till I was seven or so. And that was an interesting building, it had been a converted mansion. But you know, during the war, there was a housing shortage so a lot of these buildings, a lot of these single-family buildings had been chopped up into small rooming-- rooming apartments. And so this is what happened to this building you know when my grandfather bought it. And it was a rambling old house and it must have been 00:37:00quite handsome at the time. But you know there was a Japanese person living in the parlor and then a person living across in the, you know maybe it may have been the, the drawing room. And then another person living you know in another, a room behind that. Now we had like four rooms in the back of the building and we also had a yard so you know it was lucky for us kids that we had a yard. But there were you know, there were units in the basement next to the coal room. There was, I remember a Mexican man lived there and he would have friends over, and he would invite me down, down there. You know they played the, you know they played guitar and sing and it was y'know quite a nice time. There were people on the second and the third floor, the third floor would have been maid's quarters at one point, but there were units up there and people were living there. It was quite a lively, it was quite a lively building. I remember an old fellow named 00:38:00the Mr. Papan, was a Hungarian man he wanted to talk with his brother in, back in the old country. So the phone was in the, in the hallway just outside our bedroom and he was hard of hearing, and his brother was very hard of hearing, and so they would talk for about an hour in, in Hungarian, and we didn't understand what he was saying but it was very loud. (laughs) And that was kind of like the childhood we had.

EL: In a building like that where it was at one time a single-family home, a, a mansion chopped up into smaller units, how, how did the kitchen facilities and the bathroom facilities work were those all shared?

EK: What had happened with this building was that you know there, there would be these rooms but then another wall would be erected a few feet away from one wall 00:39:00and then archways cut into the wall, and then this became a hallway, and then there was a bathroom at the end of the hall, so each of the floors had-- You know all the tenants of a floor would share a bathroom. And of course if the bathroom here on the first floor was, was busy, well then you could run upstairs and you know use an-another bathroom. And of course you know, the, the, the, the tub would be there too, so you didn't really want to hog all the time you know taking a leisurely bath when other people wanted to use the bathroom or wanted to take a bath. There would have been a refrigerator in the middle of the hallway for the people of that floor to use. You know, which, which made for some interesting times because there was a fellow who had bought a dozen eggs, and the, the eggs were missing. And so he started knocking on the doors of his neighbors and say "You know, have you seen my eggs?" and the fella came to the door and he had a skillet with fried eggs in it. And he says "Oh, hello?" 00:40:00(laughs) Well, he found out where his eggs went. Cooking facilities you asked, would have been a hot plate. Would have been a gas hot plate, which would have been like a cast-iron arrangement where there'd be two burners you know on a grate. And that would be on top of a t-- on the top of a table. And a lot of these rooms would be piped for a sink so you know you're pretty well complete except for the bathroom and, and the refrigerator you know within your room. And so you know we call these single room occupancy you know hotels I guess.

EL: And your parents raised you and your siblings in that arrangement until approximately what age?

EK: Well you know, we, we actually had a kitchen, and so my mother had her own stove and refrigerator, and so I guess we were lucky.

EL: And it sounds like that building in particular had quite a diverse occupancy.

EK: Yes.

EL: So outside of your, your home life, did your family socialize with a lot of other Japanese or Japanese American families?

EK: Yeah, we were, we were members of the Nichiren Buddhist Church, so that would have been o-our family's--well, our family's social life. I didn't-- my sisters and I didn't have a lot of American friends outside the family and so we went to Sunday school with the other you know, Japanese kids and so-- You know so that was Sun- that was Sundays. I don't recall you know birthday parties and that sort of stuff you know we didn't do very much of that. Every so often my parents' friends would come over and, and they would visit. You know not a lot of partying, my parents were not that, you know big on parties.

EL: What kind of work did your parents do?

EK: Well, my mother was a you know mother and housewife of course. My father, well he would have to do something to support the family, and so there was a company called the McClurg Company and I didn't really-- you know it's 'cause we didn't know the word McClurg because my father always pronounced it "Ma-ku-ra-gu". So he went to "Makuragu" company and what they did was, it was, it was a mail-order house. And so the foreman there I believe was Japanese so-- And the bosses were very happy to have Japanese men. I don't know if too many women worked there, but I never asked but you know the Japanese workers were studious, and they, and they worked hard. So-- and you know, and so they were 00:43:00happy to employ Japanese. And so, so my father would pack a lunch, and uh- well actually my mother would pack his lunch. My mother would pack a lot of lunches for us kids too when we started going to school. So he would go to work on the bus, and, and hi- and his job would be to take the merchandise that was put on a tray and then he would wrap them in the newspapers, put them in a box, and, you know and then get the next tray and pack that. And for that he got $0.95 an hour. And that was, you know that went on for a little while, and then, and then he happily said, "Oh I just got a raise, I'm now getting a dollar an hour!" And so-- But, there was an opportunity for him to learn a skill, and, and so he became a silkscreen printer. And silkscreen printing, you know people think of 00:44:00silkscreen printing for artwork, but back then silkscreen printing could be used for making nameplates, and for making printer circuit boards. And, and that was pretty precise work and my father was very good at, at precise things he had very you know, skilled hands. So he would spend his days you know taking-- the boards that, that printer circuit boards started out as, you know there would be a piece of fiberglass or a piece of plastic and then there would be copper either one-sided or two-sided, and then that would be put down on a board and then the s-silkscreen will be laid on top and the silkscreen would have a pattern on it and then we'd take a, a black ink and then with a rubber squeegee, squeegee that pattern onto the, the copper clad. And then the copper clad board would be baked and then put into acid, and then the, the parts that did not have 00:45:00the, the black resist ink on it would be eaten away. And then the boards would be chopped into squares, and then all the holes would be drilled, and then that would become you know, the, the board for which you know electrical components would be soldered on. So this was actually a very good skill for him to have and he was able to do that until he retired at the age of 65. And then by this time, shortly afterwards, you know the, the company that, that he had worked for all these many years, went out of business because so much of the, you know so much of this assembly work was being you know, you know shipped off overseas. But he was lucky in that, he, he-- maybe just a dozen other employees of that company qualified for a pension. You know for, you know, having worked for that long. And so the pension wasn't that much, but it was a couple hundred dollars a 00:46:00month, but he lived till 98. So from sixty, from si- age 65 to 98, he collected that 200, 250 dollars a month, and you know he was very well pleased for that.

EL: So during that period as your parents were establishing themselves, what was the experience like for you as, as children? Did you speak English when you arrived here?

EK: No we spoke very little (laughs) we spoke no English at all. Um, well after we got to America and this would have been in October of '55 I would have started, I think I started the next year, probably spring. Without knowing any English at all. And so everything was just, just confusing. I didn't know what people were saying. I didn't know what I was supposed to do. All, all I knew was I was really good at making things out of clay. You know one time my, my, my 00:47:00teacher gave me a pencil because I had made a really nice clay little car. First grade though, there was a Japanese female teacher named Mrs. Wada. And so that helped, but you know, I remember spending a lot of time sitting next to her while she played piano crying 'cause I didn't know what was going on. I think you know, it, it was tough. For, I think it was tough for, I think it was tougher for my older sister 'cause she went right into first grade you know she didn't have kindergarten. But I think you know two or three years later we were speaking English and being able to write and, and actually I think we were doing actually better than you know some of the other immigrant kids who were struggling with their English. And we, we actually did very well in school after that.

EL: Are there particular places, or people, or maybe annual events from your childhood that really stick out in your memory?

EK: Well Grandfather would take us out to, well he, you know he, I think my grandparents were still country you know people at heart. So every so often he would pack us up in, in his station wagon. And of course you know everybody is sitting and me and Mr. Kondo from, you know from, from before. We would be laying on our backs in the back of the station wagon you know while the rest of the family was sitting in front kind of cramped up. And then he would take us to, to the Indiana area, kind of an undeveloped area because they loved mushrooms, and they loved picking ferns. There were these, these ferns that reminded them very much of the ones that grew in the mountainside of Japan. So 00:49:00then we would spend a little bit of time picking and filling the bags of the fern. And then my grandmother would bring them back and dry them and then she would, you know, put them in soup and, and then use them for cooking. So, so that was something that we looked forward to. My grandpa liked to go fishing, and actually he might have gotten this, the love of fishing from, from his time at, at Manzanar camp. I didn't know this, but this was something of a thing that the men did at Manzanar, was they would sneak out at night, and they would have to avoid the searchlights and, and hide when the searchlights were you know circling around. But then they would find themselves to the stream and then they would, um, they would fish and then come back and so this was maybe a little bit of rebellion that they indulged themselves in. And, you know and luckily they 00:50:00didn't get caught. So fishing was something that they liked to do. You know Grandmother was always, you know she was famous for her chicken teriyaki and so she'd always make a very nice picnic for us. And then there would be the, the holidays at the church, I was not a very good student of Buddhism, but you know when the holidays came along well you know I was very happy to eat the food and, and to do the dances and to celebrate, why not? (smiles)

EL: You had mentioned earlier about your mother packing lunches for your dad and you as children.

EK: Mhmm.

EL: What kinds of food did she pack for you?

EK: Well let's see, well they were I guess what you'd call American lunches I suppose, it was, you know it was easy. It would be, you know for each and that would have been you know for Father and, and me and my sisters. It'd be you know in a brown sack, it would be a, a sandwich wrapped up in, in, in wax paper. It 00:51:00would be two slices of white bread with mayonnaise and either a slice you know, and only one slice of either bologna or, or ham or it might be cheese, but just one slice because you know of course you know she thought that well it comes in the package and its sliced so this one slice must be a, you know, must be a helping. And then there might be a piece of lettuce. And then there would be a, a fruit, it'd be a banana, or an apple, or an orange. And then if you're lucky you know there might be a candy bar or a piece of cake or something like that. And so she must have made thousands of these lunches you know for, you know 'cause I, you know there were four, you know there were four kids and, you know and my father.

EL: And at home for your family meals, what kind of food did you eat then?

EK: Well, I think you know there was, there were like seven things that my 00:52:00mother made for dinner, and I can't remember what they all were, I just remember that there was, one of the dishes was, it was a bell pepper that she would cook with ground be--beef inside. And that was probably my, I don't know why I remember that one 'cause that was my least favorite dish. (laughs) There was always rice. You know e-, you know even if we had Thanksgiving and my grandmother put together a, a nice Thanksgiving feast with the turkey, and gravy, and mashed potatoes and all that there would have to be rice. You know of course you had to have rice. But back home, my mother would either fry chicken or, or pork. I remember she cooked pork, well you're supposed to cook pork you know very much back in those days. And it would be, you know, as hard as cardboard but you know I liked meat so that was fine.

EL: And what language did you speak at home?

EK: You know we spoke Japanese early on, but little by little you know as, you 00:53:00know as us kids were getting more proficient with English and we were starting to speak English amongst ourselves and of course English you know at school with my friends. And my mother spoke English, because you know she, you know she was uh, she was born in America. You know we started you know, gradually losing our Japanese. The only time I would speak Japanese would be to our grandparents and to my-- our father and my mother of course and-- But little by little as we went along you know we, you know my Japanese is really terrible now. Although it's probably better than my older sister's, because my older sister moved to New York City, she became a doctor, and so she didn't have much chance to practice her Japanese until-- you know unless you know the one week that she came back to Chicago to visit during the holidays. Yeah, you know I'm, I'm kind of sad about that, and we did go to Japanese school on Saturdays, but once again I was not a 00:54:00very good student of Japanese and, you know I've kind of lost that facility too.

EL: Do you remember if your family ever frequented Japanese-owned stores or Japanese American owned stores? Grocery stores or--

EK: Uh, yes we did. You know we visited Toguri's of course. You know if there were Japanese goods that you wanted to buy well that, you know Toguri's was the place to go. I had briefly dated Patty, who was the, who was uh, Iva's niece, I guess I'd call her Aunt Iva at the time. And then there was Aiko's papers for origami papers. Umm but I guess we didn't do that much shopping. No, we went to Star Market and you know for, for Japanese food, Toguri's also. And it was a 00:55:00handful of other Japanese food markets on the North side of Chicago. And you know and little by little they, you know they either went farther north or they'd gone out of business. You know with Japanese kinda leaving you know the, the centralized area and you know marrying off and you know going away. I guess we never did have a, you know as closely knit an area like Chinatown you know the Chinese people there. But Little Tokyo kind of like fell apart at one point.

EL: Did you have an awareness as you were growing up of, the history of incarceration of Japanese American people and then the resettlement history here as a child, is-- was it, were you even aware that there was this --

EK: I can't say that I was aware. Every so often you know a-at church or you know I would hear adults talking about you know, about the early days and you 00:56:00know if, if a couple was asked you know, "Well, how did you meet?" well, quite often they would say, "We, we met at camp." And that word "Camp" it, it sounded kind of benign and you know maybe even fun who knows I don't know what camp was. I hadn't realized that camp was, you know, concentration camp. So those are things that the older people kind of shielded from us. And you know and, and I suppose we should be grateful for that, that you know we were kind of spared some of those details.

EL: Was it, was it ever brought up in, in a school context?

EK: Uh, I don't remember. I don't remember that subject coming up you know even in high school U.S. history.

EL: And do you recall any incidents of bias or discrimination against you or 00:57:00your family members?

EK: There might have been toward the, at the beginning because you know I would have been going to school in 1956 which was not that much removed from the end of the war. But, I think, I learned pretty early to keep my head down, and t-to stay away from the bullies. And, you know to make friends, and especially if you have you know big, tall, strong friends. That's, that, that's a good thing for a small person like myself. I can't really say that I had suffered that greatly you know with discrimination and for that I'm grateful.

EL: Could you maybe describe for me, what it was like being part of a Japanese American community in Chicago in the 60s, 70s, maybe even into the 80s?

EK: I'm not so sure that I was that personally involved. I remember in high 00:58:00school a lot of... Well, I went to Lane Tech High School, and there were a lot of Japanese American kids there, you know boys, 'cause it was all boys then. And there were, you know there was this clique of Japanese American boys. I was not part of that. You know, not that I was not-- you know, that they were unfriendly to me or anything like that, but, I had gone out for ROTC, and you know, my friends were, you know, my, my fellow you know ROTC cadets. And so, I, I can't say that I really palled around with Japanese Americans that much. There was a boy who lived in my neighborhood, and you know his father was a doctor. And, so I played with him. He was very good at chess. And, so David would beat me at 00:59:00chess, and then we'd go bowling and I would beat him in bowling. And so that was kind of like, you know the, the friendship that I had with him.

EL: Did you belong to any, any clubs or social groups?

EK: No, not really. I was too busy I guess being a student, yeah.

EL: Was your identity something you thought about a whole lot as a teenager?

EK: You know it's funny because there's you know, like I was talking about you know the, the boys at, at, in high school. Maybe they were more aware of being Japanese Americans. And, and these would have been boys who were born in America. Now, I was born in Japan, and so, I spent more of my effort trying to become more American. And so, I don't know, I don't know if I ever thought that 01:00:00much about being Japanese except for the fact that in the, in my core I am Japanese. You know I look Japanese. And you know maybe a lot of the, and, and, and, and I'm sure that I am, but you know I, I try to be, you know, more open, you know, to, to everybody.

EK: As you entered into adulthood and now perhaps in retirement, looking back, do you think your relationship with your identity has changed over time?

EL: I don't know, I guess I'm always me. (laughs) I remember when I, when I, when I met my, when I met my, my fiancée's parents. And we had gone to, they 01:01:00live in Holland, Michigan and my wife is half Dutch. When, I guess I was described to them previous, before you know I, I actually met them, you know, they, they learned that I was Japanese so they thought that I would be kind of a, a reserved, Japanese man. And then when I showed up and I was you know, talkative and friendly, they thought, "Oh, well Ed's a regular guy!" And so, I thought that was good. So that-- we had a, we had a very wonderful relationship, you know, my, my in-laws and myself. I learned to come whenever we, we visited in, in their house in, in Michigan that I'll bring a toolbox, because Carol's dad was pretty hopeless with tools. But they would like, have a running list of 01:02:00things that was wrong with their house so that when I came, they said, "Okay, could you fix this thing here, and you could fix that thing there, and we're trying to install this telephone there." And they, they, they kept me busy but you know I enjoyed, I enjoy doing these things and, and I loved them very much.

EL: Could you explain a little bit maybe about how you came to have those types of skills?

EK: I think maybe I, I, I had a, a natural interest in these things. You know if you go back to the, the farmhouse my, my father had the, the engine, the gas engine that, that ran the threshing machine. Now the threshing machine was a, kinda like a metal box that had these wire whisks and it had a big pulley on the side, and then the, the gas engine was put a few feet away from it with a big flat belt going back and forth. And you know, it was an open belt, and so I was warned to stay away from that, that looked pretty scary. But that was just 01:03:00fascinating to me you know, these mechanical things were just fascinating. And so, so when we, we moved to America, into that apartment building my grandfather had a, a workshop in the basement. And so anytime he forgot to padlock that door, I would be in there, and I'd be exploring and getting into his stuff. I would find a piece of wood and a saw and I'd start sawing and making things. I think, I remember making a yo-yo for myself. Duncan yo-yos were very popular, you know, in the 50s. So, you know I wouldn't ask my parents to, to buy me a yo-yo, so I thought, "Well maybe I'll make myself a yo-yo." So I took some wood, and my grandfather had a coping saw so I, I d-, I drew two circles on this piece of wood and with a coping saw you know I, I, I cut these two crude circles and then I took a hand drill. And you know, I, I knew enough not to use his power 01:04:00machines, and I would drill a hole in this disc, and a, you know, here, another hole there and then with a short little piece of dowel, I stuck these things together and wound the stri- string around her. And it made a very bad yo-yo, but I was proud of it and it kept me busy for that afternoon. And then later on, my grandfather would start showing me how to do these things, how to, how to make, you know how to nail things together, how to, how to varnish, how to stain. He had a pot of hide glue going on in, in a little gas stove that he had, and so he would liquefy the hide glue, and then he'd use that to, you know, to make the joints. And so you know I guess he would have been my first, my woodworking teacher. And then later on I had formal shop training at, at high school. I had wood shop, and electric shop. And, and I guess those were my best subjects. U.S. History was probably my worst. But that and drafting, I was able 01:05:00to make a life for myself, you know making things, drawing things. I always said, you know, "Anything I can draw, I could probably make." And, you know I became a model maker and, build things for photographers and for TV sets--um, TV production. And, later on, my, I, I went to the, I'd gone to the Institute of Design f- which is part of IIT [Illinois Institute of Technology] you know for, for college. And, after I was done with model making, they asked me, the school asked me to be a, be a shop teacher. So, so from about 2008 to 2018, for 10 years you know, I was a shop teacher. And, I found that very rewarding, you know teaching the kids how to, to make things. Because, young people today, you know 01:06:00they're, they're, maybe they're wizzes at computers, but they haven't had a whole lot of exposure to manual arts. And a lot of these kids that were at the, at college, you know they'd come from good, you know good, good families, you know their fathers were you know lawyers, and professionals, and you know doctors maybe, and, you know they, they didn't have the advantage of having tradespeople in their, in their families I suppose. But, so, I was able to teach them how to use the machines and the tools. And, and whenever somebody, you know a young person makes something, you know they are just so proud, and you know I was very proud for them too.

EL: Do you think there are any-- I'm wondering if there are lessons that you've drawn from your own experience, and your family's experience of, of immigration 01:07:00and separation and incarceration, that you think have informed your approach to teaching?

EK: Well the lessons that, that I appreciate now would be you know the hard work that, that my grandparents and parents had gone through to, you know to adapt themselves to this country, to make a life, and to, you know make it easier for our generation. I mean we got to go to college, you know, my, my sister, my older sister became a doctor. She's a patho- pathologist in New York City and, soon to retire, at the age of 72. She should have retired earlier, but anyway. (laughs) And I got to go to college. You know, college you know allowed me to 01:08:00avoid Vietnam, and that would have been the war of my generation. And you know, my father suffered through his war, I'm very fortunate not to have suffered through my wa- you know through my era's war. And my younger sister, went to the Art Institute and you know she got to pursue her creative life. Um-- You were asking about me teaching, I don't know if, you know, I think maybe teaching was, is, it's, it comes easily to me in that, I can see a process and I want to impart that process you know to my student. You know, let's go about this in a practical manner. And, I, I guess I'm having a hard time answering that question 01:09:00that way.

EL: I suppose what I'm wondering is, i- if over the many years that you have taught, have you encountered any students where maybe you were able to connect with them in a, in a particular way, perhaps because of your experiences in life, or, or your knowledge of what your family has experienced?

EK: I, I don't really know in that, you know the students that I had at The Institute of Design-- Now when I was going there it was, I, I did foundation year. But The Institute of Design became a school for, for a master's program. So there was a, you know it's not a, you know not freshmen, but these were graduate students going for a master's in product design. And so you know they had already proven themselves as good students, and-- You know I'm sorry I'm m- 01:10:00kind of meandering here! (laughs)

EL: That's perfectly all right! I think, I'd like to wrap things up maybe with some, some broader questions, but before we do that, I'm curious, given that your grandfather was incarcerated, when the redress movement happened and Civil Liberties Act was passed, was he able to receive reparations?

EK: Yes, he, yes he was. You know he was, he was, very happily, you know he very happily you know accepted his $20,000 check. But then the next sentence was, you know although he was happy to have it, I didn't think that it was as important to him as you know being able to, to call the U.S. his home. I, I think he had 01:11:00adopted-- Well, he had gotten his U.S. citizenship, probably about 1954. So he had been a U.S. citizen for a long time and so he had, he had always considered the U.S. his home. And you know the, the, the money was nice, but you know luckily he was successful enough in that it wasn't something that was you know, something they d- that was really you know necessary for him.

EL: And when that all happened did you understand why it was happening, the significance of it?

EK: Yeah, I was old enough to know. I was old enough at that point to know what had happened to, you know, Japanese Americans.

EL: Did your grandfather ever express anger about what had been done to him?

EK: I think by the time we came along, he had gotten some success you know in his second career, you know as, you know as renting, as a r- you know as a 01:12:00landlord renting to tenants. And, you know, buying buildings and taking care of them. So, you know, I'm, I'm sure he was bitter at the time, but I think by that time you know the grand--, you know, us grandchildren came along, he was too busy with his other things. And then, you know and then, he, and he, he retired comfortably.

EL: And, do you think there are any behavioral patterns that you observed in your family that might have been attributed to the experiences of the war? Be that, incarceration in the U.S. or deprivations in Japan?

EK I, I think it was actually more their adapti- you know, the, the, the fact that they were able to adapt to their surroundings and, and to make the best of it that allowed them to survive and you know actually get some benefit, whatever 01:13:00benefit that, you know, that they got from that experience. Um-- I, I don't know if it affected them personally so much although you know they were very devoted to the Japanese American community and, and you know they were very active in the, the resettler movement. Actually, (laughs) I've always aft-, I've always, you know whenever my grandfather said, he, he wasn't able to say resettler, it always came out, came out "re-se-tu-ra". Because you know Rs and Ls are so difficult! But later in life about 1990, the Japanese government did award him you know with a, with a medal; in fact I have it here. And I remember him, 01:14:00proudly wearing it, with a suit. And, and this was for his generosity, and his support of you know Japanese Americans, and also you know, the, the relationship that he had with, you know with, with Japan. And, so anyway, he was very, you know he was very proud to, to wear it.

EL: Are there any questions that you wish now that you could ask of your parents, or your grandparents, or even your great-grandfather?

EK: Oh gosh, all kinds of questions I suppose. (laughs) You know, how things actually were, and you know comings and goings and years. And, and you know what their early experiences would have been but, but you know as, as children we didn't have these questions. And then now sadly you know everybody who knows the 01:15:00answers are gone. I- I guess, you know my s-, my sister June and myself, and we have a cousin Wayne, who was you know the, the son of, of Uncle Herb, you know my mother's middle son uh-- m-middle brother. You know we have some questions about, about the family tree, and actually Wayne did a, a very large graphic you know as far as, as far back as he can go, you know with the various branches of the family, and he was quite involved with that. And, you know with mountain families in, in, in small communities, the, you know there's been a number of times that, the, the, the Koizumi family and the Mochizuki family have gotten together. I have a cousin in Japan who's also, who's, who's a Koizumi who had married to a Mochizuki. There's, there's not as many, you know people in you 01:16:00know, that you could, you know that might be marriageable at any particular time, so you did what you could. But people did survive and it's just really quite amazing that they did.

EL: And, what motivated you to participate in this oral history project?

EK: There was a woman named Lourdes, and I met her at a screening of a movie at our local, in Oak Park's library. The movie was called The Orange Story and it, it talks about this Japanese American grocery store owner who has to sell his grocery store you know at the, when he's about to be relocated to a, to a camp. And it's a short story about his life and you know, goes on to him, what happens 01:17:00to him. And afterwards, there was a, a few people who, who got up and spoke and Lourdes was one of them. And her mother was born in Manzanar Camp, and she talked about you know her mother's experiences. Now, afterwards I had a chance to talk with her and, and we became friendly, and, and she connected us, she connected me to some people in, in Manzanar. And actually what was amazing is that the park ranger that she connected me to was a woman named Rose Masters. It turned out that one of my students was a, was a best friend of hers. I thought Rose might have been an older woman but no Rose is a, a woman in her late twenties, and you know, as are you know, my students. So, it was quite amazing when one of my students came into my shop and said, "Oh Ed! You know Rose, she's 01:18:00my best friend." And I thought, "Well that was a very interesting story, you know these you know six degrees of separation." And, what we were talking about? (laughs)

EL: Oh, what motivated you to participate in our oral history, oral history project?

EK: Oh, right, so anyway, Lourdes asked, told me that this oral history project was, was going on with the, with the Japanese American Service Committee and would I participate? And I usually try to stay away from things like this, but I thought I should, I should do this. You know I should honor my grandfather because you know he and Grandmother worked so hard to make a good life for, you know for, for his grandchildren and family and so that's why I'm here.

EL: Well we're very grateful for your participation. So, to close us out here, I'd love to know what you would most like for younger generations to know about the experiences of you and, and your family.

EK: I think it's a story about immigration, that, that America should be a welcoming country. America needs young blood, you know it needs people who are motivated enough to leave their own countries. You know whether it's the, you know the pull of the, the opportunities available in the, in the U.S., you know or the push of bad things happening in their country, they have the motivations to, to come to this country. And they bring resources and you know, their knowledge and their willingness to work and to, to be good citizens. And you know we should be welcoming of them rather than turning them away and, and that would be, you know, that would be my thought.

EL: Thank you very much, and thank you for participating in our project.

EK: (laughs) Okay, you're quite welcome.