[NOTE: This transcript has not undergone a final proofreading and may contain
errors. It is being provided in draft form to enhance access to the video recording. As soon as possible, it will be replaced with a final, corrected transcript and will be synced to the video to provide clickable timecodes.]Anna Takada: 00:01 And I'll just start with, uh, a little s- Oh, shoot. With a
little slating. Um, we can go ahead and get started there.Aiko Kojima: 00:15 So have you done many of the, uh, interviews?
AT: 00:19 Yeah, um, we are somewhere between, um, Alphawood and here we're at,
um, 80? Around 80. In the ballpark.AK: 00:34 Oh ok.
AT: 00:34 Um, so we've been lucky to talk, er, I've been really lucky to talk to
quite a few people. Um, I feel spoiled, but I get to call this my job and I'm just hearing about people's lives. Okay. Um, we should be good to start. Okay. This is an interview with Aiko Kojima as part of the Japanese American Service Committee and Chicago, Japanese American historical society oral history project. The interview is being conducted on October 18th, 2018 at the Japanese American Service Committee in Chicago. Aiko Kojima is being interviewed by Anna Takada of the Japanese American Service Committee. Um, so to start, can you just state your full name?AK: 01:45 Uh, my full name is [Carolyn?] Aiko Kojima.
AT: 01:49 And where and when were you born?
AK: 01:52 Um, I was born in Kalamazoo, Michigan, August 10th, 1944.
AT: 02:01 I'm sorry, 19...
AK: 02:01 '44.
AT: 02:02 '44. And, um, to start, can you, uh, just tell me a little bit about
your parents, maybe where they were born and,AK: 02:18 Um, well my real father was born in Hawaii, Honolulu, Hawaii, and then
my mother was born in Greeley, Colorado.AT: 02:31 Uh, when, and when did your, did your father move from Hawaii to the States?
AK: 02:38 Yeah, yeah. I'm trying to think. Probably in, probably 1943 or so,
somewhere around there. I'm not sure. Cause, uh, uh, they were, uh, divorced a long time ago, so you know, before. So, um, and he, I believe, uh, relocated to Los Angeles and, uh, uh, my mother came to Chicago then.AT: 03:18 So how, how did your parents meet or where?
AK: 03:23 Um, I believe, well, my parents, uh, met in camp and, um, um,
AT: 03:37 What camp was that?
AK: 03:38 Manzanar. Cause she was in Manzanar.
AT: 03:41 And so would I have that right that, um, before the war started, your
dad moved to LA and then that's how he was put into Manzanar?AK: 03:53 Yeah. Yeah. Um, and, um, as far as your, your parents' backgrounds,
um, do you know like, uh, what they did for a living or what kind of, where their families were from or what their story was?AT: 04:14 Um, I really don't have too much information about, uh, like my father
or whatever. But, um, with my mother, her parents were farmers. They lived in Greeley, Colorado, and, um, so her mother died when she was eight, and then, uh, her father, uh, became sick and he knew he was dying. So when she was believed 13 was when he took her to LA to live with, uh, uh, a couple who became her foster parents. And, um, I don't know, um, who they were or anything like that. So, but I believe they had, they had a, uh, a nursery. And so she used to work in the nursery.AK: 05:09 Did she have siblings?
AK: 05:11 She had, um, there were three siblings in Japan. And so that's why the
father went back to Japan to see his three oldest daughters. And then, um, she had, }"uh, there were five here, born in Colorado. And all of the, no, let's see. Um, the oldest sister, uh, died in childbirth, and she was, I believe 27, but the, then there were two, um, brothers and they died when they were children. Uh, one of, uh, I think lead poisoning and the other, uh, kidney failure or something. But, and, um,AT: 05:58 So the family that your mother moved with, were they Japanese?
AK: 06:05 Yes, yes. But, you know, I, she never, uh, well if she did, I don't
remember, uh, what their, their names were or anything. Um, but I know that they separated and so her foster father moved to, um, Mesa, Arizona and, but I don't know what happened to, you know, her foster mother.AT: 06:30 Mmm. So as far as, um, like wartime and going to camp, can you tell me
what you know about how your, um,AK: 06:46 My mother really, uh, didn't talk about, uh, camp. So she, let's see,
she was about 18, I believe. Wait, yeah. Maybe she was older. She could have been 20, but anyway, cause she got out when she was, uh, she was only there for a couple of years, I believe.AT: 07:13 In camp?
AK: 07:13 Yeah. And, um, because she was able to get the family, a family to
sponsor her. And, um, so she left there I think in like, uh, she, I think she left camp around, uh, the end of '43 or the beginning of '44.AT: 07:37 And, um, so what you, what you do know about your mom's or your
family's experience in camp? Is that from what she's told you or how, where did you get this information?AK: 08:01 Well, from her, I mean, what she said and, um, she, I, from what I
understand, I mean, she was very quiet, so she, uh, she didn't go to dances and things like that, cause I believe they had dances and, um, activities, you know, like that. But, uh, so she never really said too much about it. Um, she came to Chicago and, uh, and that, you know, her, my stepfather. And, um,AT: 08:44 So, next can we, can you go into a little bit more about, uh, so your,
your mom left camp, uh, in '43 or '40, and she was sponsored. Um, well I guess first just out of curiosity, were there any like, other stories or memories or anything else that you really heard about her particular experiences in camp?AK: 09:09 No. Sorry to say no.
AT: 09:14 Um, then so how about when she, when she moved, she was sponsored by a
family in Kalamazoo?AK: 09:21 Right then. Um, so we stayed there for about a year and then came here
to Chicago and uh, trying to think, um, and she lived with my aunt and uncle for, uh, probably about a year or so.AT: 09:50 Where in Chicago or?
AK: 09:53 Yeah. Um, you know, I can't, I don't know exactly where it was the
North side of Chicago. Yeah, I'd had to be the North side of Chicago, I think. But.AT: 10:09 Did your father go to Kalamazoo as well?
AK: 10:12 No. No.
AT: 10:15 Do you know where he went?
AK: 10:18 Uh, I believe you, he went to LA then, so.
AT: 10:24 And so when your mom came to Kalamazoo, she was staying with a family
and so was she doing kind of like domestic labor or, uh,AK: 10:39 Yeah, that and she was like babysitting for the family.
AT: 10:44 And so it must, she must have been doing that maybe when she was
pregnant with you. Yeah. Yeah. Cause you were born in '44.AK: 10:56 Right.
AT: 10:58 Um, and then, so then she, she knew about family staying in Chicago.
Is that right?AK: 11:08 Right. Yeah, that would've been my, my cousins.
AT: 11:15 And your aunt and uncle. And so where, uh, when would that have been,
do you think that you moved to Chicago?AK: 11:30 Um, probably, let's see. It had to have been in '45, I think. '45, '46.
AT: 11:44 And so where are you in the first memories?
AK: 11:47 Uh, well I remember living on the South side, but, we were in a
basement apartment. Um, because, let's see, um, the grammar school then, uh, I went to kindergarten in, at Oakenwald and, um, and then after that we moved, uh, to the North side. I think we must've moved to the projects in, in, I'm trying to think. We moved to the projects in 1950 and, um, we were on the South side because, um, it must, you know, I don't know exactly how.AT: 12:54 I understand this was a long time ago.
AK: 12:58 I'm trying to figure right. Cause we were on the South side and then
we moved to the North side.AT: 13:04 Um, and when you're on the South side, it was just you and your mom?
AK: 13:10 No, uh, my stepfather was there too, so.
AT: 13:15 Um, and where did she meet your stepfather?
AK: 13:19 Uh, Edgewater beach hotel. Cause, uh, he worked in the kitchen and she
did too. And my uncle had worked in the kitchen.AT: 13:28 Is that how she had got the job through your uncle?
AK: 13:31 Yeah.
AT: 13:32 And so what, what kind of work was she doing there?
AK: 13:36 Uh, um, you know, I really don't, uh, know what kind of work other
than either the kitchen or the way she was in housekeeping. Um, yeah, that's all that, um.Speaker 2: 13:51 So it sounds like that might've been her first job that she
took in Chicago.AK: 14:00 Right, right,
AT: 14:02 And so do you think that would have been while you were living on the
South side or.AK: 14:13 I, yeah, I think, uh, because we did start from the South side and
then, uh, We lived in it, an apartment, uh, around Chicago and Clark area before moving to the, to Cabrini Green.AT: 14:35 Do you have, um, like any memories of what the neighborhood was like
or like what, what Oakenwald was like when you were a kid? I again,AK: 14:46 No.
AT: 14:46 It's asking a lot.
AK: 14:47 All I can, all I can remember, Um, cause there was, uh, another, uh,
Japanese family, I think one or two Japanese families that we knew then. And um, the one family had, uh, an older daughter. And so she would walk me to school that, you know, other than that, no, cause it was, we weren't there that long, so, um, yeah, sorry.AT: 15:23 No, no, no, no. Um, again, this big exercise of memory on this goes
back a long time ago. Um, so, so you had been living on the South side and your, your mom had, and you had cousins and an aunt and uncles. How many cousins did you have that were here,AK: 15:48 Uh, two, two.
AT: 15:51 Did you spend a bit of time with them?
AK: 15:54 Uh, just, uh, it was rare, you know, we would just see each other
every once in awhile, uh, because they were in the North side. Yeah. And, um, and then we didn't have a car or anything. So, um, and then plus I think when we moved into the projects, uh, I don't know how often they came down there or no, I don't think they really, you know, particularly cared to come down into the projects and all.AT: 16:33 So, um, so just as far, far as timeline goes, you and your mom were on
the South side and you went to Oakenwald for kindergarten. Um, and then was it from there that you moved? Um, further up North?AK: 16:53 Right, right.
AT: 16:54 Okay. Um,
AK: 16:56 Cause I, I, I know that, I think my first and second grade, this was,
um, when we moved into, into the projects because I went to the Catholic school at Saint Dominic's for the first two years.AT: 17:14 After moving?
AK: 17:15 Yeah.
AT: 17:17 And you said second or third grade?
AK: 17:20 No, first and second grade. And then, uh, for third grade on up. Then
I went to, uh, Edward Jenner.AT: 17:30 And do you remember where those schools were located?
AK: 17:34 Um, Saint Dominic's was located on Hudson. Just, uh, let's see. Just
north of Chicago Avenue and, uh, Jenner. Let's see, Jenner was located on Cleveland. I know. Um,AT: 17:56 Okay.
AK: 17:56 Cause it's, it's still there. Um, I dunno if it's, if it's Larrabee
maybe, I can't remember exactly what, but it's within a couple of blocks of where we lived in the projects and all. And, um, I know that they tore down the old Edward Jenner and they built a new one. But, uh, yeah, I graduated from there and then went to, you know, Wells high school. So when I graduated from there, that was the last class that, uh, but have eighth grade because there were so many kids that, um, they changed it to, you could graduate up to sixth grade and then you went to, uh, upper grades, uh, Cooley Upper Grade Center, and then Cooley High School. I don't think that's there anymore.AT: 19:06 And, what, would you happen to know at what point or when, um, your
mom and your stepm- stepdad, um, got married?AK: 19:18 Uh, it'll probably be like a 1946
AT: 19:21 So relatively soon after you had come back to Chicago.
AK: 19:30 Mmhmm.
AT: 19:30 And, um, and then did they, did you have siblings?
AK: 19:36 Yeah, there's nine siblings.
AT: 19:39 So you were, you were the eldest?
AK: 19:41 Right.
AT: 19:46 Yeah. And, uh, what is the general kind of like, age difference
between you all,AK: 20:00 Um,
AT: 20:00 Or when was your next sibling?
AK: 20:02 Well, I was three, so then after that there's like,
AT: 20:08 and you can, if you want to give me the names too, of your siblings
and the orderAK: 20:12 Oh, okay. Yeah, it's uh, Ellyn, E, L L Y N , and then Robert, uh,
Bill, Phyllis, Donna, Roger, Pat, Annette and Linda. And there's like, you know, between a and a year and a half, uh, between each, each kid.AT: 20:55 So you being three, it's not you, it sounds like you had siblings. You
got company,AK: 21:04 Yeah.
AT: 21:06 Pretty shortly after moving to Chicago. Um, all right. Let's see. So,
Um, Do you know what your stepdad was doing at Edgewater beach hotel?AK: 21:24 I believe he was a cook there, you know, like a, um, I don't know what
kind of cooking was, you know, whether he was doing the salads or stuff like that.AT: 21:42 Um, and then, uh,
AK: 21:53 Oh, maybe he might've been a waiter there. Well, I don't, I don't know.
AT: 21:58 Your mom and your stepdad. Um, do you know how long they stayed at the
Edgewater beach hotel? How long they were working there?AK: 22:08 Um, I think she, she, uh, quit, I don't know how long she was there,
but, uh, yeah, she quit working there and, um, He started working as a waiter over at a place called St Hubert's grill, which I don't think is, you know, uh, in existence anymore. But, um, um, yeah, I mean. He had a drinking problem, so this is why we continued to live in, you know, the projects and all, and, uh.vBecause all, all our other friends, especially Japanese, uh, families, you know, moved out fairly quickly.AT: 23:08 Moved out of...
AK: 23:08 They moved out of the Cabrini Green and, you know, they were living
in, uh, uh, homes and things like that.AT: 23:18 And your stepdad, was he living, you guys were living together in Cabrini.
AK: 23:26 Mhmm.
AT: 23:28 And so I'm sorry, what, what year was that? Probably around that you
moved into Cabrini Green?AK: 23:35 1950. And then they moved out in 1967, which was just, you know,
October of '67, which was just before, uh, the riots started in April because of Martin Luther King's assassination.AT: 23:53 So you all were, you were through, there for about, um, about 17 years.
AK: 23:59 it was 17 years. Yeah.
AT: 24:01 Umm. And you mentioned there were a couple of other Japanese families
there. What was, what was kind of the general demographics, um, when you, when you first moved in, of Cabrini Green, what was Cabrini Green like?AK: 24:19 Um, you know, actually the, there were like, uh, predominantly, uh,
Caucasian, you know, Polish and, and Greeks and, uh, Italians. And then, um, I mean it was pretty well rounded. Um, but as I said, by 19, by the mid fifties, that had changed, especially since building the, um, they were starting to build the high rise and, um, uh, the influx of, of Appalachian whites and, and the blacks from, you know, the South and all. There was also a, uh, um, I think it's still there, Lower North Center. It was a, um, uh, a place where the kids could go. Like after school they had like, uh, different, um, activities, you know, almost like an after school program, you know. It was, it was good. They had, during this summer, they had day camp. And, um, uh, you could take different classes and things like that. They had piano lessons. AndAT: 25:51 is that something that you and your siblings took part in?
AK: 25:55 We did the day camp, you know, during the summer. And um, I'm not
sure. I don't recall. There, they might have been too young to go the, but I think my sister and I went to a, some of the classes and whatnot.AT: 26:20 You said there's piano classes?
AK: 26:22 Yeah, well the piano classes, you know, it was a group piano lessons
and um, so I took a couple of the classes but um, so I must've been about about 15 then. I think. Yeah. Cause I started working part time at um, Henrotin Hospital, which is no longer in existence, but it was a small hospital located on the Lasalle and Oak.AT: 27:02 What was the name of it?
AK: 27:03 Henrotin, That's H. E. N. R. O. T. I. N. I worked in the uh, uh, diet
kitchen. So.AT: 27:17 And so was that, um, you must have still been in school at that point?
AK: 27:22 Yeah I was in high school then.
AT: 27:24 And so when would you work at the hospital? What hours?
AK: 27:31 I think we worked from, uh 5 to 7:30, somewhere around there. Yeah.
AT: 27:40 In the evenings, after school?
AK: 27:44 Yeah, mhmm.
AT: 27:49 And, um, just a few kind of general questions about growing up. Um,
was your family religious at all?AK: 27:59 Yes, we, um, with one of the families, it was, uh, the Menominee
family. They used to go to the, what we call the Chicago Avenue church, which is Reverend Oyama's church. And it was on, uh, Chicago and Noble and, uh, they took us, uh, to the church and that was in '58.AT: 28:23 So,
AK: 28:29 But prior to that, but prior to that, um, I believe it was either
Wheaton, no, it must've been Moody Bible. Uh, students would have one of the, uh, vacant apartments and they would have a church and Sunday School there. And we would go to that.AT: 28:49 In the,
AK: 28:49 In the projects. Yeah.
AT: 28:54 Mmm. Was that something that was attended by folks who lived there or,
AK: 28:59 Right, yeah.
AT: 29:01 Um, and uh,
AK: 29:06 But then when, when, uh, we were introduced to, uh, the Chicago Avenue
Church, um, we started going there and, um, so somebody would pick us up and take us to a, uh, the Chicago Avenue Church. It was, what was it called? Uh, the Japanese Church of Jesus Christ.AT: 29:34 Mmm. And what, uh, what sect or, uh, denominations where.
AK: 29:44 It was interdenominational.
AT: 29:49 Um, and, and so was the, '58, um. Let's see, so you would have been
just about in high school when you stopped going to that church, is that right?AK: 30:10 Yeah. Yeah.
AT: 30:13 Um, what about other activities outside of school? Did you do
anything? You mentioned that the after school program, which used to,AK: 30:23 Well, once I started working then I didn't have, so, uh. The church
would have, uh, like a youth group on Saturdays. We could go to that.AT: 30:39 And um, well it sounds like it was a Japanese church, so it was mostly
Japanese families?AK: 30:48 There were, uh, Caucasians also, but mainly Japanese
AT: 30:52 Um, and well, and that's right, you, you were, you are, the oldest 10
kids. So as the oldest where they, did, you have to kind of take on a lot of responsibilities to help out your mom? And.AK: 31:14 Yes, cause back in those days they did not have, um, disposable
diapers and, um, you know, just cleaning, you know, doing the laundry. Um, and back in those days, we had, we had a wringer washer and, um, and then for, we had no dryer, so we'd have to either hang them outside or hang them in the, you know, in the apartmentAT: 31:48 Mhmm, um. And also to just get a better sense, um, you know, of course
Cabrini Green from its inception had seen like a lot of changes as far as the actual structures. And so when you moved in, uh, it looks, they would have just had the low rises at that point.AK: 32:16 Right. And Montgomery Wards was not too far from us. Cause it was
right by the river there. Over near Chicago Avenue. Let's see. I'm trying to think how old, like my sister and I, um, we got a job with IGA grocery store delivering the circulars in the row houses.AT: 32:45 I'm sorry, delivering the what?
AK: 32:45 Circulars there. The grocery circulars, there'd be flyers. And, um, so
we would get a dollar and a half and we'd have to, you know, put these flyers in every mailbox in, uh, uh, in the row houses. And so what we would do, we'd get them, we'd get them on Tuesday night, fold them and then, uh, deliver them on Wednesday. And, um, so we thought folding all those circulars was a lot of, you know, a lot of work and all, so we employed our younger siblings to help us and, you know, we'd give them a nickel or a dime. And back in those days, that was a lot of money. But, uh, they did it. So, um,AT: 33:44 Just delegated the task!
AK: 33:45 Right.
AT: 33:46 Do you remember how much you all were getting paid for it?
AK: 33:49 Yeah, we got a 1.50 each. And that was, you know, for basically two
nights worth of, uh, cause it took us maybe about, uh, two hours I think, you know, to deliver them cause we were walking and, um, it would be Cam-, let's see, Cambridge, Mohawk, Cleveland and Hudson. Those are the streets. And I, you know, I don't know. I can't recall how many, uh, apartments. Uh, but, and then when the, when the high rise came, they wanted us to deliver him the circulars inside the, uh, the high rise. And I thought, no, because it was soon after they were built and everything and where the people were moving in, there was, you know, crimes happening and the elevators are breaking down and all. Um, I think we'd, we'd delivered it once. And what we did was we just threw all the circulars in the elevators and, and left because it was just too, uh, it was too scary to even go in there. So, um, so we decided it's not worth it because we weren't going to get paid any more. And, uh, so we just quit.AT: 35:18 Um, so I've, I've mentioned to you, it's, you know, not very often
that you get to hear from, uh, Japanese Americans who grew up in Cabrini Green. Um, and I'm just wondering, uh, if, well I guess that aside, I'm just, I'm curious to hear more about, what, I guess what Cabrini green was like in those earlier when it was just the low rise,AK: 35:55 Um,
AT: 35:56 Because that's when it was still new.
AK: 35:57 Yeah.
AT: 35:59 And my understanding,
AK: 35:59 Cause they were built I think in the, uh, mid forties.
AT: 36:05 What I, what I found was, um, the initial purpose, so was the Chicago
Housing Authority and they had initially built it for, uh, workers during the war.AK: 36:19 Right.
AT: 36:19 So people to help out with, um, that kind of stuff during the war,
which was mid forties. Um, and it sounds like the, the original plan was to house people temporarily.AK: 36:33 Right. It was basically a housing for people to get on their feet, uh,
after the war and all, and, uh, and, and a lot of people did. Um, but it was just, uh, it became a place, you know, for the poor. And, um, um, I think that, uh, you know, from, from my point of view or, you know, by, uh, perspective, um, it wasn't as bad as, as, you know, living in the high rise projects, that to me was bad. And I think, you know, in retrospect, the whole idea, uh, of housing, all these poor people, you know, and so many was not, you know, uh, not, not a good thing, but, um, I don't think that, um, you know, my family as a whole, had, you know, uh, problems or anything. Um, but we, we did know that we knew what we did not want in life. And, um, the only way to do it is through education and, and, uh, uh, just being, um, more positive, you know, rather than a negative. And so it was a good experience. Um, I mean, a lot of people think, Oh my God, you know, you, you lived in Cabrini Green and you're a [how-bet?]. That's what they hear about it now. And, um, but it wasn't, you know, it wasn't like that. Um, and I, I don't think that, yeah, I don't think that my siblings had any, any, uh, physical problems or, you know, fights or anything like that. There might've been one or two, but, um, on the whole, everybody knew the Prosises and, uh,AT: 38:55 And so is that your stepdad's name?
AK: 39:01 Yeah. Prosise. Yeah.
AT: 39:03 What kind of name is that?
AK: 39:05 It's, um, I think French and in French and German. So, and he didn't
see, he came from Verdun, Illinois, which is a small, at that time, a small coal mining town or something like that. But, uh,AT: 39:26 And do you know when he moved to Chicago?
AK: 39:29 No. Yeah. I don't know. Cause he, no, he, he was a graduate of a
Wesleyan and, um, but he didn't do anything with his education, you know, so, um, but otherwise, uh, it was, it was, you know. Memories of him are horrible. So, you know, it's, it's uh, um, that part, you know, uh, of my childhood, I wouldn't, you know, I don't relish. So, but, but otherwise, you know, I think all my siblings came out fine and, and they're doing well. Uh, my youngest brother wrote a book about his, uh. He, he States that, you know, he, he's a product of the, uh, uh, Cabrini Green and then going to, uh, to the suburbs, you know, which he calls mansions and then the education, cause he was a district superintendent in Mundelein. And so, um, yeah.AT: 41:09 So we have a few minutes left,
AK: 41:11 So if you want me to come back, I can come back. But it's just a time
when, because of we're doing a luau, so I'm trying to get, you know,AT: 41:24 Oh, I see, sure. Well, and I want to get you out of here on time
AK: 41:27 And I can also have my sister come to, uh, cause she'll be moved in by
then and whatnot.AT: 41:33 Uh which sister, would that be?
AK: 41:33 That would be Ellyn. She's righ, yeah. And she's an educator. She's a,
uh, uh, she taught English, uh, high school English at Austin when it was, it had gone from one, when we were in high school. It was all white. When she was teaching there. It was totally black. And, um, uh, she was, uh, a good, you know, teacher and then she went over to Lakeview and she was there for about 25 years, so.AT: 42:10 Oh and well, and that was, uh, that's actually, uh, something I was
curious about. As far as the rest of your siblings, um, from the time that you all were living in Cabrini, did everyone kind of go through the same, uh, schooling as, as you did? So your siblings went through Jenner?AK: 42:30 Yeah. Well, yeah, they had different schools. They went to Jenner. And
then, uh, let's see, my sister Phyllis. Okay. Number five, she, this was when they instituted the program where, uh, the poor kids could go to better schools or whatever. And so she went to Von Steuben and cause I remember she would have to leave the house like six o'clock in the morning to get to Von Steuben from the projects and all. Um, so she went to Von Steuben. And then, uh, my brother Robert though, he went to Lane and bill went to Baller. And so Ellen and I went to Wells.And then by that time they had moved to, um, uh, the North side from, uh, Cabrini. They move over to, uh, what was it around Southport and Addison area. So they went to, um, Blaine elementary school and, uh, Lakeview.AT: 43:50 And would you, after high school, what did you move on to do,
AK: 43:56 Ah, after, after high school I went to live with my aunt and uncle.
AT: 44:01 Um, were they still on the North side?
AK: 44:02 Yeah, they, it was over, uh, around, uh, uh, the uptown area. So I
lived with them for four years, and then I went to, uh, I got my own apartment and, you know, I was working and everything.AT: 44:19 And what kind of work are you doing?
AK: 44:22 Uh, office work.
AT: 44:27 Um, And, uh, w- after living with your aunt and uncle and while you
were, you know, as an adult, working adult, over, where did you move from there?AK: 44:49 Um, after my aunt and uncle, I got my first apartment, moved over
around the Clark Fullerton area. Um, after that, uh, my sister and I got an apartment over on Broadway and Waveland.AT: 45:11 Um, so mostly sticking to the North side.
AK: 45:14 Yeah. Yeah.
AT: 45:28 I, I am considering asking you to,
AK: 45:32 Ok,
AT: 45:32 I just have, you know, a lot of questions, but I want to be sensitive
to your time. Uh, I guess as we kind of wrap up, um, I would be curious. Well, Oh, one question I did want to ask was, uh, when you were going through your, um, schooling elementary and high school, were you going to school with other kids from Cabrini green or the kids of the schools, I guess, where were they coming from?AK: 46:06 Yeah. Uh, let's see. Yeah, there were some, some kids from, uh,
Cabrini cause, uh, I maintained, uh, uh, friendships and um, but you know, it's strange because when I became like a junior, um, my friendships just changed and whatnot. And so, um, I, I really don't know what ever happened to some of the kids, but, um, yeah, because then, you know, uh, I became more involved over a church and, and uh, um,AT: 46:59 In high school.
AK: 47:00 Yeah. So I don't, yeah, cause I didn't have, uh, like friends, like in
the projects area, it was, um, more on the outskirts cause they lived in, in, uh, apartment buildings and things like that. But, uh, yeah, there was only a couple of kids, a couple of girls that, you know, went to the same school because some of them, I can't remember the names of the high schools that they went to, but it was more on the South side I think.AT: 47:43 And, um, how long were you attending the, um, Chicago Avenue Church?
AK: 47:52 Uh, till about 1964.
AT: 48:02 And did you start attending a different church?
AK: 48:05 No, I sort of stopped going to church then. And, uh, which I did, but
I would, you know, they built, they built another church on the Northside, uh, Clerk and Devon. And, uh, but in the interim they had, uh, uh, rented a facility over, uh, Trinity I think. Uh, so like on Ashland and Berteau somewhere in that area. And, um, so I'd go to church there, you know, in and out kind of thing.AT: 48:52 And I guess, uh, as we wrap up, I know we didn't fully get to to
everything, but it seems like even from a young age, whether it's through church or families, you knew you were in some way kind of connected with a bigger Japanese American community in Chicago. Um, and I know you still are now, um, whether through church or, or the ukulele club. This is a very broad question, but how would you, I guess if you had to compare the Japanese American community of Chicago sort of in those earlier memories of it and compare it to now, what would you say? What has maybe changed or, or maybe what's the same?AK: 49:54 I think that, um, I'm trying to think when, uh, cause cause we were
involved with the, um, um, I think it has got NCAA or something.AT: 50:12 Uh, the athletic?
AK: 50:12 Yeah.
AT: 50:12 CNNAA.
AK: 50:15 Yeah. CNNAA, yeah. Cause my, I know my youngest brother was, uh,
involved in that cause he played basketball. Um, the other two not so much cause they were older and so they were working and whatnot. But, um, I think that some of the younger siblings were more involved in, in, uh, like baseball and volleyball and, you know, uh, activities, um, I was involved with, you know, the golfing and uh, but in comparison, um, I think because we, you know, we, we weren't, yeah. You know, we weren't real, well it's only through church that we were involved in any of the activities and whatnot. Um, yeah. Cause some of the, you know, like my younger sisters were more involved, uh, in the church activities, um, than I was, you know, at that time. And, and uh, uh, my youngest brother was more involved in, uh, the church activities. The two older ones were not. So, um, yeah.AT: 51:55 And it was just like, what, what you've seen as far as maybe how
people were organized then versus now?AK: 52:02 Um, yeah, I know that, that, uh, the, uh, the, the nisei at, at
[Leonard Fink?], uh, was really good. And I don't know if they have that now or not. I see. Cause I'm kind of out of the thing. I know that, that, uh, there's, um, Ty Momii has the basketball camp, you know, at, at, uh, Ravenswood. But other than that, I don't know. Uh, I don't hear about it, you know, because I don't have, uh, like my younger, all my siblings who are married and have kids, they're all they're, uh, involve either their own church or, um, their own community. So I don't think that, I don't, I don't even know if they have, uh, uh, that social type of, uh, uh, organizations anymore. All right, you know. Because I mean, I used to Bowl the, uh, Southside, a Nisei league and all, you know, but that was a long time ago. So.AT: 53:20 When you were young, did you, um, have a connection with your Japanese
American identity?AK: 53:27 No, because, uh, I didn't go to, um, I think it was Olivet, used to
have dances when, ah. I just never had time for that, so, and I don't know how to dance anyway, so.AT: 53:48 Well, um, I know you have to go and thank you for, for taking the
time. Um, if it's okay with you, I would love to, to talk to you more, maybe another session. Um, but before we wrap up now, is there anything else that you might want to add or that I might've missed?AK: 54:13 Uh, No not really.
AT: 54:13 And, and if, if so, we can kind of just call this part one and then,
you know, talk another time. But thank you so much again for coming.