Kuramitsu, Hawao (11/16/2017)

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KeilynKuramitsu: 00:00 Where were you born and raised?

Hawao Kuramitsu: 00:02 Where was I born?

KK: 00:04 And raised?

HK: 00:06 In Honokaa, Hawai'i.

KK: 00:09 What, what's your birthday?

HK: 00:11 March 27, 1925.

KK: 00:18 What can you tell me about growing up in Hawai'i?

HK: 00:21 Hawai'i was lot, lots of fun. Freedom. Lots of fresh fruits, you know out of the trees and the weather was nice. And I, I lived a, about half a mile away from the ocean up in the hill or so. The ocean we could see it right there.

KK: 00:55 What are some of your fondest memories of living on the Big Island?

HK: 01:02 On the Big Island?

KK: 01:04 Yeah. What are some of your fond memories? Do you have any specific memories of things you did with friends, with

HK: 01:10 Oh, well, you know, we didn't have much to do. We, the ocean was so far away. Um, the only swimming we could do was in a pond. Oh, what we, what we did was we went to the uh, big, um, uh, where, where they kept water and you know, that's how we, in a water cooled off from the heat.

KK: 01:48 So how long did you live in Hawai'i?

HK: 01:51 All my life until I came to the mainland.

KK: 01:55 When did you come to the mainland?

HK: 01:58 19, I think it was 1958.

KK: 02:04 What brought you to the mainland?

HK: 02:06 I went to school.

KK: 02:09 Where did you go to school and what did you study?

HK: 02:11 Chicago. I went into uh youth work?

KK: 02:18 So what did you do exactly?

HK: 02:20 Hm?

KK: 02:20 What did you do?

HK: 02:22 What did I do?

KK: 02:23 Yes. What's youth work?

HK: 02:26 Well, after I graduated I, I always, ah, I need into camping. They offered me camping so I, my life was camping.

KK: 02:39 So what did you do? Did you work at a camp? Did you operate a camp?

HK: 02:44 I operated a camp. Re recruit, recruited the kids, but ah, hard work was a person checking you and but after that the teacher would be coming back all the time though we weren't, wasn't that hard work. It was ah, it was okay. I enjoyed it.

KK: 03:17 Who were the kids that came to your camp and what was your camp called?

HK: 03:20 Oh, Camp Shannon. And uh the kids were inner city kids, from uh, from the community green and from the near South side.

KK: 03:36 And what did they do at camp?

HK: 03:38 What did they do? Everything they enjoyed it, they must have if they were coming back.

KK: 03:46 Were there activities for the kids?

HK: 03:48 Well, yes. Everything. We had counselors, I work with them to swimming.

KK: 03:59 So in 1958 you moved to Chicago from the Big island of Hawai'i.

HK: 04:05 Right.

KK: 04:13 And you moved to Chicago for school?

HK: 04:16 I went to school, yes.

KK: 04:18 Where did you go to school and what did you study?

HK: 04:20 Youth work.

KK: 04:23 Okay. What, what college or university?

HK: 04:29 George Williams College. They're anymore, they were on the South side.

KK: 04:46 What was your first impression of Chicago?

HK: 04:50 I liked it. You know there's so much to do. We had a change of a climate, summer, winter. And I, I enjoyed the snow too anyway.

KK: 05:05 You did?

HK: 05:08 Oh yeah.

KK: 05:10 Was it a difficult transition to go from living on an island to a city in the middle of the country?

HK: 05:21 No. No. No difference. Except that the weather, it was either cold or hot.

KK: 05:31 What about food?

HK: 05:33 Food, didn't matter. Because I like any kind of food.

KK: 05:41 So I want to backtrack for a second and ask you about Pearl Harbor.

HK: 05:51 Pearl Harbor

KK: 05:51 What do you remember that day and if so, what can you tell me about that day?

HK: 05:57 See the date I'm not sure. Whether, you know, it's been so long. I think it's, 1940, 1941 or so. It was on a Sunday. I usually get up early and then I heard it over the radio. You know, they were bombing Pearl Harbor and so we ran, I ran out but they sent us all home and we, had to stay in our vicinity, in the home. Blackout.

KK: 06:41 Who sent you home?

HK: 06:42 Oh, they had a, you know people that were in charge.

KK: 06:48 Who is in charge?

HK: 06:49 Oh, the, the, well, the gov, the State. They had people, the Army.

KK: 07:00 Were Japanese Americans or Hawaiian Americans telling you you had to?

HK: 07:05 No, no, no. We had, they stayed away from anything. They left it alone because that was the best thing they did. There wasn't a, like the main land where they move them. They couldn't move us anyway. There wouldn't have been enough space. There wouldn't have been enough people to do it.

KK: 07:29 But were are you afraid?

HK: 07:31 No, no, no. It was okay.

KK: 07:37 Um, tell me about your parents.

HK: 07:41 My parents, my parents, my dad was a, from Japan. My mom was from Hawai'i, so I've, I, I know you ah, Yonsei, fourth generation because she was born in Hawai'i too.

KK: 08:03 What were your parents

HK: 08:05 He, he, he was a mechanic. Had his own garage and he did real well.

KK: 08:15 Why did he move from Japan to Hawai'i?

HK: 08:18 Well, looking for something better to do and he did okay. He'd traveled back and forth.

KK: 08:28 Did he ever have any problems traveling to and from Japan?

HK: 08:31 No, no, no, no.

KK: 08:31 Did he travel before and after the war or did it end? When did that end?

HK: 08:40 Before the war. It ended when the war started though. He couldn't go back until after the war was over.

KK: 08:55 And what did your mom do?

HK: 08:57 My mom was a housewife. She didn't like to move, she didn't like to roam around. So she just stayed there.

KK: 09:09 How did your parents meet?

HK: 09:12 Well, if I guess ah, they must have, you know, somebody in between and.

KK: 09:18 And what were they like?

HK: 09:24 Oh, they were like, okay. They never bothered me because they never saw me anyway.

KK: 09:33 Why did they never see you?

HK: 09:34 Because I wasn't home at, you know, that, that often. I never had meals with them.

KK: 09:42 Were you always busy?

HK: 09:42 Busy doing something else with a, you know, my friends and. We were, we were big. You know, I like my a, I, I like my, about playing baseball and basketball and well so, that's what we did all the time.

KK: 10:07 Did life change after Pearl Harbor, for you?

HK: 10:16 Uh, hard to say because I wasn't doing anything and nothing bothered us. We weren't, you know, they didn't put us in a cage or put us in a Camp or anything. We had all the freedom so.

KK: 10:34 Was anything different?

HK: 10:35 Different for me? No. You know, yeah. I grew up, my community, a lot of Filipinos, so I grew up, you know, among them. There was only one Chinese. We were good friends, went to school together. No Koreans. No, no, no whites. No, whites were more upper level in a big, big, big get all the money and so.

KK: 11:18 Was it, what was it like to move from a place where you're not a minority, being a Japanese American in Hawai'i, there are a lot of different Asians living in Hawai'i. What's it like going from that type of environment to now moving in Chicago, in which nobody looks like you, everyone looks a lot different?

HK: 11:50 Actually. Uh, uh, you know, the the whites are, the brothers were in Chicago, so we had back up and it made no difference for us. We, you know, we were, we would be going to fishing and camping.

KK: 12:27 So why did it not make any difference to you? Were you still being treated the same? Like you were in Hawai'i?

HK: 12:36 Well, nobody bothered us and our, there were lots of Japanese here in Chi, Chicago area so.

KK: 12:46 So

HK: 12:50 My, my biggest, uh, thing was when I, I graduated college, uh, camping. I went into camping in the, there was a church group that we connected and they, you know, we became very good friends and they were basically all Japanese so.

KK: 13:10 Do you know the church group?

HK: 13:18 Uh, they're, they're all gone but the church is still there.

KK: 13:25 Do you know what the church is called?

HK: 13:28 Uh, no. I forgot but it's on the near West side and the North side, Rockwell Street area.

KK: 13:48 How did you connect with that church group?

HK: 13:54 Oh, I would say, uh, when I took over the camp, I had lots of people, you know, friends that would come and help me in camp. Set up the camp, clean the camp and you know, a few of them were very good friend, neighbors where I lived. And you know, they had the church there, they came up and they liked it because they had good time.

KK: 14:33 Were you religious?

HK: 14:35 Hm?

KK: 14:35 Were you religious growing up?

HK: 14:37 Who? Me? No, I wasn't. We were, we were never that religious. No.

KK: 14:48 So why did you join the church group?

HK: 14:52 I didn't join them, they joined me. In a, in a way ours happen to have them because they, they were helping me and they were happy to be busy doing something on the weekends and operation goal.

KK: 15:10 And it must be it, what, what was it like to find a community in Chicago? What was it like when you discovered a bunch of Japanese Americans?

HK: 15:24 Uh, well to begin with. At the uh, her brothers were here, so you know, it wasn't that hard. You're gonna they had their family and, yeah.

KK: 15:55 Can we talk about the period in between? So Pearl Harbor happens in 1941, you moved to Chicago in 1958.

HK: 16:07 Right.

KK: 16:08 So can we talk about the years? 1941 to 1958, what were you doing and where were you?

HK: 16:18 Oh, where was I? I was home. Oh

KK: 16:22 So following Pearl Harbor

HK: 16:25 Oh it, I minded that nothing but uh, we were, we, we we did everything we wanted to do. We uh, we got married during that time and uh, we had a kid, and when then we decided, you know, I would like to go to school. So we came up to the mainland. I used to spend a lot um working with young kids.

KK: 16:54 Um, specifically after Pearl Harbor, what did you do?

HK: 17:07 Pearl Harbor?

KK: 17:08 December 7th, 1941.

HK: 17:11 Nothing much. Just we, because we couldn't go out, blackout. We had to stay quite awhile. Every day was blackout, no school.

KK: 17:26 So what was blackout exactly?

HK: 17:29 No lights, in the night.

KK: 17:33 You, you weren't allowed to go to school?

HK: 17:36 Huh?

KK: 17:36 You weren't allowed to go to school?

HK: 17:38 Oh no, no, no, no. Yeah, our school was closed too.

KK: 17:43 For how long?

HK: 17:44 I would say half a year, I think.

KK: 17:46 Why was the school closed?

HK: 17:52 Because of the war.

KK: 17:56 So you had to be in your home at a certain time?

HK: 18:03 Right.

KK: 18:03 You had to have the lights out? No lights?

HK: 18:05 No lights, no.

KK: 18:08 And school was closed?

HK: 18:10 Blackout.

KK: 18:12 What did you do?

HK: 18:17 Read. You know, listen to TV, you know, I mean uh, at that time TV wasn't that good, but the radio. And we were at a ballpark playing, getting together and so we, we, we it was okay. We amused ourselves.

KK: 18:50 You okay?

HK: 18:55 I'm okay.

KK: 18:58 Do you want any water or tissues?

HK: 18:59 No.

KK: 19:03 How old you were? Let's see. 1940 you're 21 when Pearl Harbor happened. No, no, sorry, no, you were 17 when Pearl Harbor happened?

HK: 19:18 Something like that, yeah.

KK: 19:20 So you were still in high school?

HK: 19:22 I was still in high school, yeah. I think uh, I think a Sophomore maybe.

KK: 19:34 So.

HK: 19:34 And then we, we missed half, a half a year of school. And then when I went back I was a junior.

KK: 19:43 Was it difficult?

HK: 19:45 Oh, no, no, no. We were happy to be back in school because I got to see all our friends.

KK: 19:56 Did you ever hear any stories, um, during this time about Japanese Americans being seen as disloyal or helping Japan or anything like that?

HK: 20:13 Oh no, no no, no. They had no problem in Hawai'i. They had, as far as we know none, none around. Except um, Kibei's or. See the first people that they took in were the priest and what. Then the ones that were, you know, very, um, they took quite heavily in the church and those people, they, they picked up and they, they were in camp.

KK: 20:53 Why did they take those people?

HK: 20:57 Well, they, they, they never gave them a chance to be, you know, they're very probably [coughing]. Probably loyalty. They had no choice but.

KK: 21:20 Was there any fear that your father would be taken away?

HK: 21:26 No. He, he had, uh, [coughing] he had a good record. And, uh, he was, he, many of the big, big timers. Why, why they liked him because he, he, he took care of there uh, you know, what their, their needs. So they didn't want to lose him and he was okay. He, all he did was do his thing and.

KK: 22:04 Was there a story where you thought that he might be taken away and the family had to pack bags?

HK: 22:12 Well, when they, when they, when they took the, uh, church, uh, priests, you know, my dad was very, very close to the church and what. But they, like I say, the people liked him and they vouched for him and.

KK: 22:36 So what did you do after graduating high school?

HK: 22:40 Who me? I uh, I worked at, uh, I, well, well I just uh stayed back and um, worked with my dad, in the garage.

KK: 23:00 When did you join the military intelligence service?

HK: 23:05 When they drafted me.

KK: 23:07 When did they draft you?

HK: 23:10 Gee, it's been a long time. 19, just before the war broke out, I was in the Army.

KK: 23:28 Before the war?

HK: 23:31 Just before.

KK: 23:31 So before Pearl Harbor?

HK: 23:38 Mhm. No no no, after Pearl Harbor.

KK: 23:46 Mmm.

HK: 23:46 Because, uh, my, my recollection is there were, sending us to uh, you know, language school. There were so many, you know in the Army. And they were sending us for interpreters and uh, the war ended when we were on a boat heading for the mainland to school.

KK: 24:15 Hmm

HK: 24:16 But they continued send out, when I ended up in Texas for basic training.

KK: 24:26 What was that experience like?

HK: 24:28 Okay. You know, you were with your friends and we did together everything. We were, we were a little better than the minority, the Black, you know, they were segregated like that but on a bus they had to sit in the back, but we all sat in the back too, because many of our, our group was Hawaiians and they were dark skinned too. Yeah. You have to use a different toilet that was in Texas.

KK: 25:12 Was that surprising for you?

HK: 25:14 Well for us? Well, it didn't bother us. We, we, we, we uh, basically we all, well we were Black. So we were in the back of the bus, the driver didn't like it, but what could he do? In town, we used the, you know, segregated bathroom and.

KK: 25:44 Why did you feel like you were Black instead of white?

HK: 25:48 Because we weren't white. I guess our feeling was that we will, you know, we minority we have to back, you know, help each other.

KK: 26:11 Was there segregation in Hawai'i?

HK: 26:18 Yeah, I don't think so. Because otherwise, you know, they couldn't do that to the Japanese because majority and so they just left people alone, which was the best thing they did.

KK: 26:38 So you, so you didn't experience segregation until you came to the mainland?

HK: 26:45 Segregation, yes, no. Especially in Texas.

KK: 26:47 What was that like?

HK: 26:52 When we up, when we went to north. North defense. I spent time at a Minneapolis language school, we were there. So Chicago, you know, Chicago was six hours, so whenever we had, they all could, we all go to, we all came to Chicago.

KK: 27:38 So when you were in language school, what did you do? How did they, how did they train you? Or teach you? And who did you train alongside, other Japanese Americans, different minorities, Caucasians?

HK: 27:51 There, there were, you know, Kibei. In other words, you know, Japanese American, Japanese, American, but they were very good, they were Japanese and Japan and American, a relationship there. And, uh, they were a lot of a very good ah teachers, you know, no, none, none were white though.

KK: 28:23 What were your living accommodations like? Did you live with all Japanese American soldiers or did you live with other people? Was it segregated or no?

HK: 28:34 Oh no, no, no, no.

KK: 28:37 We, we, we, we were a mix. Like I say, Filipinos, Portuguese.

HK: 28:46 But no white people?

KK: 28:53 Well, Portuguese were white.

HK: 28:53 Okay. Umm. So why, so how, for how long did were you training for the military intelligence service? And when did they send you back to Hawai'i?

HK: 29:24 Oh, oh, my military career was going to, you know, the school. And I know I say a year and a half my military and then in the end, they sent us home.

KK: 29:44 And then what did you

HK: 29:45 They were, say uh, they, they, they couldn't turn us, not that, they didn't want to send us to Japan because our time was almost over and it was just like a free trip going and they have, they have to send you home. So they said I'm just going home.

KK: 30:07 What did you do after, once you returned to Hawaii?

HK: 30:11 Yeah, I think I didn't do much. I just stayed.

KK: 30:17 Do you remember what year they sent you back to Hawaii?

HK: 30:20 No, it's been so long ago.

KK: 30:24 When did you meet your wife? Do you remember what year that was or what you were doing?

HK: 30:31 Quite awhile. A long time ago.

KK: 30:42 Why did you never visit Japan?

HK: 30:49 Well, I went to language school, but uh, I guess my time was closed, why they didn't send me. And I wasn't that interested in a way. Some of my friends says, well, you were lucky because, you know, they didn't like, they didn't like the Japanese. That interpreters, that you know like most of them, most of the interprets were from Hawaii so was dark skin like, where the other Japanese were white like. So they treated them um not, well, when they had day off, they'd go down, you know, to the restaurants and what. They cater to the Americans, but the Japanese, you know, you had to, the Japanese ignored you. Well, they didn't like us to begin with, so you know, it's like, why are you here? You know, they wonder why.

KK: 32:11 So why weren't you interested in going to Japan? Because you heard that Japanese people were not kind

HK: 32:20 No, no

KK: 32:20 to Japanese Americans?

HK: 32:21 No, actually, my, my time was almost up and I wasn't gonna spend three more years, so.

KK: 32:32 But why did you personally, you know, even years later, you know, decades later, why did you

HK: 32:37 Well, I wasn't that interested in going, I haven't been there period.

KK: 32:44 But why no interest?

HK: 32:46 No interest.

KK: 32:46 But why?

HK: 32:50 Oh well, I just didn't care to go. I guess.

KK: 33:05 When you moved to Chicago in 1958 did you, did you intend to stay in Chicago?

HK: 33:16 Well, when I, when I graduated and, uh, from college and you know, in interview I had offer from Hawaii to go back, to work. But what you call, but mom, she says I'm not going back. He was an immigrant and going back to Hawaii again. And in a time I got tied in with camping so.

KK: 33:46 Why didn't your wife want to go back to Hawaii?

HK: 33:53 Well, her family was all here.

KK: 33:59 Was that a difficult decision for you?

HK: 34:02 No. No, no, no. I, you guys have made it easier for me because then I could just take camping.

KK: 34:14 Do you have any fond memories or what, what are some of your fondest memories of living and working in Chicago?

HK: 34:26 Well, I would say, you know, I had never any kind of a problem with people. We are, we've made good friends with, you know, different people, the church group. Well, you might, because I was in camping so they would, I got to know many of them and uh, I would say, we just establish, established ourselves. Um, suddenly I realized that you made more money by being up here.

KK: 35:17 Can you tell me more information about the Japanese American community in Chicago? Where most people lived? What most people like to do?

HK: 35:27 No. You see, I don't, I because I was camping. I wouldn't, I didn't spend too much time in Chicago. I was away. The only time I saw many people were when they came to camp. And grammar, grammar, taught school. So she didn't want to move too.

KK: 35:57 Where did you live when you first moved to Chicago?

HK: 36:07 Northside.

KK: 36:10 Do you remember the address?

HK: 36:13 No. Oh, we were at Agatite 9 whatever. Then we moved to uh well, a [Argyle?].

KK: 36:24 Barnard Street, Barnard.

HK: 36:35 Yeah.

KK: 36:35 Where you were living, were there other Japanese American families living in those areas?

HK: 36:44 Oh yeah. Oh yeah. They were all over.

KK: 36:48 So when you lived in Chicago, you've lived in Chicago since 1958 that's you know, over 50 years, living in Chicago. It's more over 60 years actually. You've never, you never in Chicago, ever experienced any, any racism or was made uncomfortable?

HK: 37:18 Oh no, no, no. Well actually, you had your own friend, and you know family and you know.

KK: 37:28 Did it seem that people generally accepted Japanese Americans?

HK: 37:32 Oh yeah, they accepted.

KK: 37:41 Why did you decide to study youth work?

HK: 37:44 Hm?

KK: 37:44 Why did you decide to study youth work?

HK: 37:47 Why did I decide?

KK: 37:49 To study youth work?

HK: 37:54 Study?

KK: 37:54 You studied youth work at George Williams College. Why did you decide to study?

HK: 38:00 What? Studied what?

KK: 38:02 You studied youth work. Why did you choose to study that?

HK: 38:07 Oh, because I wanted to work with young kid.

KK: 38:13 Why did you want to work with young kids?

HK: 38:16 Because I, before I moved here, I spend a lot of time one, a boy scout and and then all of a sudden I had a chance to go to school and get paid to do something like that too.

KK: 38:38 What did you like about working with young kids?

HK: 38:43 Oh, it was fun, doing this, doing that and they, you know, the enjoyed, big smiles and.

KK: 39:02 What did you do with your free time when you weren't working? What were some of your hobbies in Chicago?

HK: 39:22 Oh, nothing much, I liked to cook, garden.

KK: 39:37 What did you like to cook?

HK: 39:37 Huh?

KK: 39:39 What do you like to cook?

HK: 39:40 Anything

KK: 39:46 Did you cook? Did you learn how to cook when you were young or when? How did you learn how to cook?

HK: 39:52 No. No. When I, when I worked with a young kid, boy scout.

KK: 40:08 Is there anything I didn't ask you that you wished I asked or anything you want to say about your life that I didn't touch upon?

HK: 40:17 No, I think uh, I enjoyed what I did, what I had. I, uh, nothing, nothing, nothing can take the place of doing what you wanted to do and my big thing was working with young kids and uh.

KK: 40:38 What are some of your hopes for.

HK: 40:59 Hm?

KK: 40:59 What are some of your hopes for future generations, or do you have any advice for your grandchildren?

HK: 41:08 Okay, hope they do what they want to do and have a good life.

KK: 41:18 What's a good life?

HK: 41:22 When, when you are, well, when you did things and you enjoyed it. And you, you did it because you enjoyed it and had a good time.