Oba, Ken (6/2/2021)

Emma Saito Lincoln: Today is June 2nd, 2021. And this oral history is being recorded at the Japanese American Service Committee building at 4427 North Clark Street in Chicago, Illinois. The interviewer is Emma Saito Lincoln, and the interviewee is Kenneth Oba. This interview is being recorded by the JASC Legacy Center in order to document the experiences of Japanese Americans in the Chicago area. Let's get started. So we're going to start with just some background questions.

Ken Oba: Sure.

Emma Saito Lincoln: And if you could get us going by stating your full name, please.

Ken Oba: My full name is Kenneth Kaoru Oba.

Emma Saito Lincoln: And what is your year of birth?

Ken Oba: 1951.

Emma Saito Lincoln: And where were you born?

Ken Oba: In Chicago, Illinois.

Emma Saito Lincoln: And did you also grow up in Chicago?

Ken Oba: Yes, all my life.

Emma Saito Lincoln: And where were your parents and grandparents born and raised?

Ken Oba: My father was born in Los Angeles, California and my mother was born in Honolulu, Hawaii. And I believe all their parents were, were born in Japan.

Emma Saito Lincoln: And do you know what kind of work your grandparents were doing in Hawaii and in Los Angeles?

Ken Oba: I don't know at all the grandparents in, in Hawaii. I don't know much about my mother's side. But my father's side, I'm almost positive that, you know they, they had a farm near Fukuoka, so I assume they were, that they were farmers.

Emma Saito Lincoln: And did your father's family remain in Los Angeles all the way up until World War II?

Ken Oba: No. My father, he was the oldest of, he had two brothers and one sister. And, when he graduated from high school, I forget the year, his mother, 00:02:00be my, my grandmother, was killed in an automobile accident. And then I think it was a few years after that, then my grandfather took you know, all the, all the kids back to kind of the home in Japan, near, near Fukuoka. But then, then sometime after that, then my dad came back to the, came back to the U.S. and then it was followed by his, the next oldest brother. And so they were here in the U.S. during World War II. And then another brother and then the sister remained in Japan.

Emma Saito Lincoln: So the family was split?

Ken Oba: Exactly.

Emma Saito Lincoln: On opposite sides of that war. Do you know what prompted your dad to come back to the U.S.?

Ken Oba: I'll say, I don't know exactly. But, but I kind of think you know, he was born and you know, was raised in Los Angeles and I think he wasn't necessarily, I'll say, that thrilled to you know, to b-- to be living in Japan. 00:03:00It was just really a very different life you know in Los Angeles... You know, it was a city, and Fukuoka was out in the country, you know a farm. And I, I think it was kind of, you know, I don't want to say difficult, but I, I think you know, he, he kind of longed to come back to the U.S.

Emma Saito Lincoln: Do you know if he spoke Japanese? Did he grow up speaking Japanese?

Ken Oba: I believe he, he did. He and my mother you know, never spoke Japanese at home, you know, really rarely. But I knew he knew how to speak Japanese. So I assume you know either, knew before or you know, lear-- you know he's probably able to speak Japanese when he was in, in Japan.

Emma Saito Lincoln: Mhmm. So when Pearl Harbor happened and the U.S. and Japan 00:04:00were at war with each other, it was your father and one of his brothers who were living here in the U.S.?

Ken Oba: Yes.

Emma Saito Lincoln: Okay.

Ken Oba: Yeah his, you know the, you know it was his next oldest brother, named Masao.

Emma Saito Lincoln: And then they were within the exclusion zone. They were, were they sent to incarceration camps?

Ken Oba: Right. So my dad, he was in Poston. That's a camp in Arizona you know, near the California border. And a couple years ago, my wife and I, we were in Phoenix you know vacationing for the winter and we, we drove to Poston. There's not much there. But then my uncle, you know Mas, he was in the camp in Manzanar, California.

Emma Saito Lincoln: And did your parents ever talk about what happened during the war?

Ken Oba: Not really. Not really, no. Neither my, my dad and then my mom, she passed away when I was a, a freshman in high school. You know, but you know 00:05:00really, she never, you know she never said anything about the camp. But she w--, she was also in Poston.

Emma Saito Lincoln: So she'd grown up in Hawaii. Had she then come to the mainland?

Ken Oba: Right. She w-- she was, I believe, living in Los Angeles. But really, I don't know in a way that much, you know that, that much about her. But you know, I, I'm really positive she was living in Los Angeles at, at the time that the you know war, you know war broke out.

Emma Saito Lincoln: And then so after, both of your parents were in Poston, and after that, did they come straight to Chicago or...

Ken Oba: I believe they, they came straight to Chicago. And again, I'm only kind of guessing that you know, maybe they didn't want to or maybe there's no reason to go back to the, to the West Coast. But they both, you know came, I believe, 00:06:00directly, directly to Chicago.

Emma Saito Lincoln: And were they already married at that point or was that, did that happen after?

Ken Oba: They weren't married in, in camp. So I, I'm almost positi--, well, really, I, I'm positive they got married when, when they came, came to Chicago.

Emma Saito Lincoln: So if this isn't something that your parents talked about, when you were growing up, were you even aware that your parents had been incarcerated or that many Japanese Americans had been incarcerated?

Ken Oba: No, not, not, not, not really. I have to admit, I don't remember when you know I kind of learned of that because you know I don't think it was something you know we learned you know in grammar school or high school. I have to admit I'm not exactly sure when. I would say I was more... you know more adultish than a kid that, you know when I kind of became aware.

Emma Saito Lincoln: Do you feel now that you have a pretty clear understanding of what happened during World War II, to Japanese Americans?

Ken Oba: In a way, I'd say no. You know I, I've read you know some books. I've read some... You know, I've heard people speak. But I, I'd say it's really hard to, you know... You can get an understanding overall what happened, you know the people being incarcerated in various, in various camps. But like in terms of their lives you know... You know I'll say I, I really can't you know imagine. It seemed like it was awfully, you know, awfully, awfully difficult you know, being uprooted and you know being in you know a hostile you know situation kind of, in, in many, you know in many respects.

Emma Saito Lincoln: Given what you know now as an adult about the incarceration experience, are there things that you experienced or that you observed with your 00:08:00own parents that you think might be a result of that history?

Ken Oba: In a way, I, I guess generally, I would say no. My dad, you know he, you know I'll say kind of embraced you know the, the government knowing, you know what was good, good for you. And then you know when I was you know say, you know college age and you know I grew up in you know the '70s and you know Vietnam War protests. And you know not that I was you know radical, but like the idea of like you know, not necessarily accepting what the government was saying. But my, you know my father, he seemed to be more of a mind that, yeah, the government knows best and you know it was hard for me to kind of understand that, given that, well, the government had put him and the brother and you know 00:09:00others in, in, in, in the camps you know really you know under like, I'll say like false pretenses you know? So, and then my mom, again, I don't think any kind of conversation ever came up. You know she was a nurse, and you know I just knew she was my mom and you know... But there was... I'd say there really wasn't anything like that.

Emma Saito Lincoln: So where, where in Chicago were your parents living?

Ken Oba: On the South Side, in Hyde Park, which is you know... The most prominent things there are like Museum of Science and Industry and University of Chicago. We lived, I think at 51st Street and Blackstone, in Hyde Park until I was you know I think like six years old.

Emma Saito Lincoln: Do you remember much about that home?

Ken Oba: The things I remember, there was a fire one time. You know not in our 00:10:00unit but in the building, and firefighters came and broke a lot of windows and there was all sorts of excitement. But, but it was like by the lakefront and we used to go to the park there and that was you know, that was, that, that was a lot of fun.

Emma Saito Lincoln: And when you lived in Hyde Park, were there any other Japanese or Japanese American families nearby?

Ken Oba: I'm sure there were. But you know I was, like I said, we lived there until I was, say five. So, you know, I didn't really socialize that much. It was like, you know sometimes I go to the park, you know try to, try to play baseball or I don't think I was riding, you know I don't think I was riding a bike at that point. But I have to say, really, I, I'm sure, you know looking back, I know there were other Japanese in the neighborhood. But I'll say we didn't necessarily, necessarily, know, know them.

Emma Saito Lincoln: So you, for example, you weren't living in a building that had, you know, predominantly was occupied by other Japanese families?

Ken Oba: No. No, yeah, no. But nearby, then my uncle, you know the other brother, Mas, you know, he, he lived nearby as, as well.

Emma Saito Lincoln: And then when your family moved, where did they move to?

Ken Oba: To further south, 81st and Woodlawn. You know, I think it's the Avalon Park neighborhood. And we lived there really through all my formative years, you know childhood years. And I graduated high school, graduated college and lived there for a couple years after, after I was working. Then I moved to the North Side just 'cause a lot of people I knew, you know moved to the North Side. And then my dad, you know, who was retired at the time, he moved to Anaheim, California. So that was, then that was it.

Emma Saito Lincoln: And when you were growing up, you mentioned your mother was a nurse. What was your father's occupation?

Ken Oba: He was a tool and die designer and he worked at either a company or for 00:12:00Bally, which was, became pretty big in making pinball machines because sometimes we had, not pinball machines but like, these smaller arcade games at our house. But he was a tool and die designer. And then later on he did the same thing for a company that made, like weather stripping.

Emma Saito Lincoln: Do you have any really strong memories of growing up on the South Side?

Ken Oba: Yeah. I'd say all my, you know, I'd say my childhood memories of you know, I'll just say I was typical, I would say like American boy. You know, most of my time was you know, was outside and you know, you know we would play, just every kind of sport. Baseball, football, basketball. In the winter, we'd ice skate. You know, it was great. There were, you know a big park nearby and there 00:13:00were plenty of, you know mainly other boys to you know, to, to, to play with. So, I remember, you know really very fondly, I had a great time.

Emma Saito Lincoln: How would you characterize the relationship that you had with your parents?

Ken Oba: I'd say it was very, v-very good. Unfortunately, I'll say I didn't know my mom. You know, wish I could have, you know known her longer. My dad, really, you know, I'd say he really made our family. You know, he, he didn't go to college, you know so I think he took, you know, well, it wouldn't be online classes at the time, but, you know I think you know, somehow he was able to become a tool and die designer. He also fixed, you know watches. But, you know he set, you know the stage for like, you know me going to college and my brother 00:14:00going to college. And so I really appreciate that. But I have to say, you know up until, I'll say, even until the end when he was getting older and, you know obviously, I, I was an adult, you know I was always the little kid that, you know he was gonna, you know he would, he would tell me what to do you know, no matter, no matter what it came to. You know, and so I have to say now that I'm a grandfather, you know I'll say I try to have a little... I'll take that perspective when I'm dealing with my, my two kids.

Emma Saito Lincoln: Did you have the opportunity to know any of your own grandparents?

Ken Oba: No. No, not... 'Cause I never met my father's, you know, grandfather. I did meet my mother's mother. You know, she lived in Los Angeles you know and so 00:15:00on vacations we, we visited there. And so I, so I did, I did meet her. Probably the main thing I remember she had a, a parrot you know that would talk and, you know make a lot of noises. And we thought, "Boy, that's pretty, you know, that w--, that was pretty interesting." I think she lived not too far from Japantown, in Los Angeles.

Emma Saito Lincoln: And when you were growing up, did your parents socialize with any other Japanese Americans that, that you know of?

Ken Oba: I'd say mainly at the New Year's holidays. You know, my parents, I think primarily my mom, would make, you know Japanese dishes and then we would go to other, the homes of other Japanese families and they would come to our house. But I'd say it was primarily like at the, at, at the holidays.

Emma Saito Lincoln: And did your family belong to any Japanese American organizations?

Ken Oba: I know my, my dad, you know, I guess I forget you know, how, how I know 00:16:00that he w-- he, he was a member at some point of the Japanese American, you know Service Committee. I, I don't know, know about my mom, but I don't necessarily remember them being active or my dad being active, you know, because the JASC was also located on the North Side of the, the city. But never remember... 'cause the first time I remember coming to the JASC was when I moved to the North Side and I came, you know, they would have blood drives and I would come, come for that.

Emma Saito Lincoln: When you were growing up, were you particularly aware of your identity as a Japanese American?

Ken Oba: Well, I'd say obviously I knew I was Japanese. But there wasn't, you know like, I'd say that, that, you know compelling or strong component of my you know, my, my, my personality. You know, I'll say often that like, "Oh, I wish I 00:17:00was taller." You know, but, you know? But I'd say not necessarily because we didn't go to you know a Japanese church, or you know I never learned to speak Japanese.

Emma Saito Lincoln: Were you aware that there was a Japanese American community in Chicago or that there were Japanese American churches?

Ken Oba: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I'd say particularly like in, even when we moved to Avalon Park that there was a, you know a Japanese community in Hyde Park.

Emma Saito Lincoln: So you mentioned New Years. Were there any other sort of aspects of Japanese culture that your parents incorporated into your home life?

Ken Oba: Well, they would make some, some Japanese dishes, you know foods. But that wasn't like the vast majority. But they would, they would make some, you know, chicken teriyaki and, you know fish dishes. And I don't think sushi so 00:18:00much because now I can see that's kind of, kind of more time consuming to, to, to do.

Emma Saito Lincoln: Were there any shops or restaurants that you remember from the South Side?

Ken Oba: The only shop I remember is the grocery store. It was in Hyde Park, called Franklin Food. And that was there for a long time. I can remember going there and you know, well my dad carrying these big, I don't know how heavy they were, they were like 30-pound or 50-pound you know, bags of rice and you know we would use, we would use that. But I remember Franklin Food was the main. I don't remember any, necessarily any restaurants or, or anything... Or, or anything like that. I really, I really don't.

Emma Saito Lincoln: And during that time when you were growing up, did you or 00:19:00anyone in your family ever experience racism or bias?

Ken Oba: I would say, I would say no. I'll say as I got to be like in high school, I, I became more aware of bias. But not against myself or Japanese but more against you know well it'd be African Americans that you know had started moving into the South Side. And you know, again, I kinda witnessed, you know although I didn't know it, that like the white flight as Caucasian homeowners you know, moved, moved away and... But really, but I, you know I know there were tensions there. And then when I was in high school when Martin Luther King was, was assassinated, that was, that was pretty tense you know? We were taken, it was pretty far from our high school home and you know getting on the bus. And, you know that was, you know so I became aware of... But just as a general of you 00:20:00know, kind of race relations, especially on the, on the South Side and kind of the coming of black gangs. You know, primarily at that time it was the Blackstone Rangers you know were becoming say like a, a thing a little bit.

Emma Saito Lincoln: So I think, why don't we transition to talking a little bit more about your path into adulthood and, and how your life took shape after high school. So, maybe if you could walk me through what you did after high school and then your move to the North Side.

Ken Oba: Well really there isn't... There isn't very much you know. I, I started, you know my work career was, even in this day and age was pretty limited in terms of-- You know, I, I worked for the federal government as, as an auditor really through my whole, you know, whole, whole career. And, but then in terms of other things, you know really, I'll say, I don't know why, but I had, 00:21:00did have a sense of like community service. So then when I was, you know started working, which didn't necessarily have anything necessarily to do with it, I, I started like donating blood, and then I, I started work--, you know not working for, but I was a big brother in the organization, Big Brothers, Big Sisters of Metropolitan Chicago. So I was a big brother to eventually like three young boys, one of whom was Japanese, and you know, he, he lived on, on the North Side, here. And I was also involved in the, what's the... it's the one that's kind of opposite in the spectrum, the organization that deals with the, the elderly, you know elderly, elderly shut-in. Kind of... I can't remember the name right now, but I know, you know I, actually I, actually I did some of their office work for, for a while.

Emma Saito Lincoln: And somewhere along the way, you got married?

Ken Oba: Yeah, I got married. You know, I was living on North Side. Met my wife you know, Kathy. You know she's Irish, Irish Catholic, you know which was, you know kinda... You know, that does--, you know necessarily mean that much you know to, to me either way. I just remember you know our first date we went to you know kind a well known Japanese restaurant, Matsuya on Clark Street, near Wrigley Field. And then after that you know, she said she was sick. So, (laughs) so I didn't know what to think about how things might proceed after that. But, you know she had said it was, wasn't anything she ate at the restaurant or with me. And then kind of fast forwarding, you know we got, we got married, we had you know two kids, a boy and a girl. And fortunately, they, they're grown up now. You know our daughter's you know married and lives in the San Francisco Bay 00:23:00Area and has two, two little girls of her own, our granddaughters and we're really, a lot of our time is spent you know doting on them. And our son is married and he and his wife live in Highland Park. They don't, they don't have kids, have kids yet.

Emma Saito Lincoln: Did you feel very welcomed by your wife's family?

Ken Oba: Oh, yes. Yeah. No really, really very much. You know and it was again, kind of looking at it, you know her father worked for the railroad for, for a long time, but kind of more important to that question, like one of his brothers had been killed you know in the Pacific theater in World War II. You know, but you know fortunately, you know they didn't, they didn't make a connection or you know that, you know t-to me or anything like that. And they were all, they were really very welcoming to me. And we spent many holidays you know at their house 00:24:00'cause you know kinda by that time, after a while my dad was, was in California.

Emma Saito Lincoln: And have you always lived in Chicago?

Ken Oba: Yes.

Emma Saito Lincoln: This whole time? Was that a choice to stay here or is it just sort of how, how it happened?

Ken Oba: I, I'd say both. I mean there was really, you know all like my family was here, my friends were here and you know I didn't, I was happy here. I had, you know for, for me, a good job and there wasn't anything compelling to you know g-go elsewhere, you know? Especially after I met my wife, well then you know we wanted to... You know, she coincidentally grew up on the South Side of Chicago though we didn't know each other, each other then. But we both loved Chicago but lived here all my life so-- (laughs)

Emma Saito Lincoln: While you were raising your children, did you and your wife 00:25:00make any conscious effort to pass on your Japanese heritage to the children?

Ken Oba: I'd say to the extent that we, we could, you know 'cause I'll say since my Japanese heritage, I'll say it was pretty limited, you know not speaking Japanese, you know, you know I'll say not knowing a lot, a lot about the culture. But you know I, obviously I, you know, you know we, you know imparted to them that obviously they're, they're, they're Japanese and you know they were ol--, when they were old enough, you know we explained about the camps and you know that my grand-- my, my parents had you know, had, had been in the camps. And I'll say it was really important t-to them because they were both, you know in college, they were history majors. You know, kind of, and then my daughter being, you know she's a principal at a charter school in San Jose. So I think 00:26:00from a education standpoint, you know she really, that's kind of important to her.

Emma Saito Lincoln: Have you or your children taken any steps to try to reclaim some of that heritage that was lost between the generations?

Ken Oba: I guess I'd have to say no, you know. 'Cause some of it is, you know my wife's heritage is you know, Irish, Irish Catholic. Our kids went to a Catholic elementary school, then... You know, so-- So I guess what I'm saying is like you know my wife's heritage is you know to me, just as important. And then my daughter, you know her husband coincidentally, he's Irish, you know. So, I don't know what that, what, what that means. And then our son, his wife is Cuban and I 00:27:00think probably German, primarily Cuban. And so, you know their heritage is, you know important too.

Emma Saito Lincoln: Have you ever had the opportunity to travel to Japan?

Ken Oba: Yes. Took me, took me a long time. But finally, in 2013, my wife and I, we went to Japan, and it was kind of a group of us. My brother Wayne, who's like three years younger, he went. But it was all arranged by my cousin Katie, who had grown up in Japan. You know, her mother was my dad's sister. And, so she grew up in Japan. Then when she was going to college, she came and attended Northwestern University in, in Evanston. But she's really like the family member that you know she lived everywhere, you know and she's traveled everywhere. 00:28:00She's gone to the Himalayas, she gone to Machu Picchu. And, but she had lived in Japan for a long time even though she had gone back and, and had lived in Tokyo. So she was used to arranging these like visits and showing people around. But, but anyway, at the time, you know she was living in, in the U.S. But then she arranged like a whole, you know, like three or four week you know, visit and we went all around and you know she had it all planned out. You know, we would, everything we were going to do every day, you know the subway we were going to take to here and the events, and-- But anyway, so we did eventually go to Fukuoka and see the, the family farm. And, so that was pretty, that, that was pretty interesting. So it's kind of complicated in terms of-- The short version is my Uncle Masateru, he lives there. And his one, he has two daughters and one 00:29:00daughter lives in a house, you know also on the farm. The other daughter lives I think in the Fukuoka area. But what it was, was my grandfather took the family back to Japan. He remarried and had one daughter, then she married. But because in Japan she was going to be like the end of the Oba line, then Uncle Masateru, he took the Oba as, as his last name. But then she passed away. And then so he, he, he's the one that, that lives at the, at the farm. You know, they don't farm. I think they lease the, the farming, the fields or something like that. But he, he lives there in, in the house.

Emma Saito Lincoln: What was, what was the experience like for you emotionally, going to Japan and experiencing it for the first time?

Ken Oba: Well first, you know Japan was just you know just wonderful you know in 00:30:00terms of like the sights and sounds and... But you know especially going to you know Fukuoka to see where you know the you know, you know, what my dad's family had, had grown up was, you know really interesting to see that's where they had, had lived and you know made, made their lives and eventually decided to you know come to the U.S. That was really, you know that was really emotional you know, to, to, to see that.

Emma Saito Lincoln: Were you mistaken for Japanese while you were there?

Ken Oba: All the time. You know and so that's why that, we'd go to the hotels and I'd be with my wife and then we'd wanna, you know, need directions or ask at the desk and then inevitably, you know, they would start speaking Japanese and I'd be embarrassed and say, say, "I don't speak Japanese." You know, 'cause in a way I was advised, actually by the person that was cutting my hair who was Japanese, I said I was going to Japan and her name was Kimi. And so I said, "Oh, 00:31:00maybe I should learn some Japanese phrases." But she advised against that because they said if I start saying like a little bit in Japanese, well they'll think, "Oh okay, then let's keep..." And so I just say, you know "I don't speak." And I'll say, you know in the way that was true because you know kind of unrelated to our Japan trip, my wife and I went to Prague because our daughter was studying abroad there. And then I said, "Oh okay, I'll be, I'll be good." And I learned a few words in Czech and then so I started talking you know to some of the people in stores... And then--And then I had to say, "No, that's all I know!" you know! (laughs) So anyway, that's kind of a long answer for that. But obviously, I was mistaken for you know being you know, really Japanese you know all, all, all the time.

Emma Saito Lincoln: I think we'll switch gears a little bit and talk about your involvement here at JASC. And for several years now, you've been a volunteer 00:32:00here. And I'm curious to know, since it sounds like other than the blood drive, you weren't particularly engaged with JASC or other JA organizations. So what motivated you to get involved, in retirement?

Ken Oba: Well, after I retired you know I wanted to, looking for something to do and then for a couple years I volunteered at the Catholic high school that subsequently is closed, that was near our house. And actually, the principal of the Catholic grammar school where my kids went, she was working in that office. So, really it was, you know so I would work there and really it was, really it was pretty fun. It was like a block away. And so, then that was pretty--, but the school was closed you know due to low enrollment. So I kind of, I knew of the JASC and so then I just thought, "Well, that'd be a worthwhile and fun thing 00:33:00to do." So then I came by and filled out a form and you know that was probably in, you know probably six or seven years ago now.

Emma Saito Lincoln: And what kinds of projects have you been involved in?

Ken Oba: (laughs) Kind of all sorts of things. Initially, I would say, I, I kind of worked for the, the controller. But mainly, not doing accounting or anything but designing like forms you know to tally information for some of the, some of the, some of the different programs. And one of those was the chore housekeeping, which now has grown to be such a, a, a big thing, you know? But, so I was primarily, primarily doing that, designing like these, mainly like Excel spreadsheets to keep track of, you know, different, different things. And then, I don't know, I was kind of getting tired of that. And then Karen Kanemoto 00:34:00was a Legacy Center director at the time and there were a couple archivists and they were scanning these, you know photo collections. And you know, so... you know I could see what they were doing. And so I said "Well, maybe I could do that." So then they trained me to scan all these photos from the different, different collections. And then over time, all the JASC employees that were part of that, you know, Karen, Karen left and then the archivists, they went on to bet-better things. So I was, in a way, in charge of that. As, as other volunteers would come, I would train them and you know continue scanning, scanning of the collections. Well, that's kind of over with. But now I still work on these spreadsheets for the chore housekeeping and for the adult day service.

Emma Saito Lincoln: What keeps you coming back to JASC?

Ken Oba: Well really, I, I'd say it's like the people. It's you know the people, you know I've met like, you know so many nice people here, and really it's a lot of fun and they have the events. You know it's wonderful when they have, you know here in the warehouse, like the ADS has their parties and they have other, you know other events and really, it's, you know their mission is really wonderful. But you know really, I'd say like, you know the people are really so, you know so, so, so nice.

Emma Saito Lincoln: And what do you value most about JASC's role in the Japanese American community?

Ken Oba: I'd say like for honoring the Resettlers. But also like the... What am I trying to say? Just honoring like the, the Japane-- honoring and promoting 00:36:00like the Japanese culture. They have all the programs, like you know the language programs and, well they used to have ikebana and you know things you know things like that to kind of you know, preserve and perpetuate the Japanese culture. But you know I've seen it you know kind of shifted into, you know kind of-- Because they have to, like more modern issues of like social justice and you know I, I think that's really, really wonderful, really.

Emma Saito Lincoln: I think, let's talk a little bit about what your family experienced during the war. And, and I know you don't have a lot of details about that time period because your parents chose not to discuss it with you. Is there anything that looking back now, you wish you could ask your parents?

Ken Oba: Well now, I w-- I would've been more interested in knowing about like their, the life in you know camps. You know like say you can read about it, and, and hear people, you know hear people talk about it. But it would be most compelling for me to hear my parents describe, well, they, they weren't my parents at time, but hear them describe what their lives you know you know were like and... You know good, bad or indifferent. It'd be... 'Cause to me, I just picture it as being awfully hard and I, I'm just amazed they were able to... you know like a lot of you know resettlers from the camps really make, make a life for themselves, you know? It just seemed like it was, you know I don't know how like my wife er-- my mom you know became a nurse and you know it just seems you know, pretty, pretty, pretty amazing to me. So I say I had it pretty easy. Just 00:38:00seemed like go to school, go to college, get a job. But, you know I, I'd like to ask 'em like how, you know kind of how life was in the camp and you know how it, how they felt about how they kind of felt about that.

Emma Saito Lincoln: Have you or your family members participated in any reunions or, or pilgrimages? I know you mentioned you and your wife stopped at Poston. But have you participated in any of the more organized gatherings?

Ken Oba: No, not, not, not really. Because in a way I, I guess I, you know, maybe I misunderstand what they are at times. But I thought some of them were like for the survivors of the camps. Well, you know obviously that's not, you know not the case anymore. But you know maybe there are, are some where it's not just the survivors or, or something like that. But really, really I, I've been to the JASC when they've had talks about the camps and then this was a while ago, I think. It was actually Daniel Inouye, you know he spoke, spoke here 00:39:00about his experience in the camps, and, you know and stuff.

Emma Saito Lincoln: And when you stopped at Poston, you said there wasn't much there...

Ken Oba: No, it was, it was... We would've passed right by it unless we knew what we were looking for, that there was like a, like the main, not the structure but the thing of note, it's like a sculpture. It's like a gun barrel pointed, you know up. You know, but it's just really a small, roadside thing. So unless you're looking for that you know you, you might pass it because all the buildings, you know they're... Well, the original buildings I think are almost all gone, that were out of, made out of wood. The ones that were of you know brick or something other than wood. But they're in like terrible condition. They were all fenced around, you couldn't get, you, you couldn't, you, you couldn't get close to them, but...

Emma Saito Lincoln: How did that make you feel, when you arrived at that site and that's what you found?

Ken Oba: Well, I thought it was too bad because I know at some of the camps although I haven't been there, like I think at Manzanar and there are a few others I think maybe they've... You know 'cause, 'cause I've been to the Japanese American National Museum and, and they have, I don't know if they're like recreations or of some of the, the camps. So, so I, I thought that at some of the camps, they have a little bit more preserved of the camp itself. But the most compelling thing at Poston was, you know all the camps probably have a story. But you know at Poston, it was like either the only or one of the few of those on Bureau of Indian Affairs Land. And what it was, was that land you know was on the Indian reservation, Colorado, Colorado River Indian tribes. But the land was pretty arid and you know, nothing would grow. So someone at at the BIA had the idea of well, locate the camp here on the reservation, use the labor from the, you know the internees to irrigate the land. And it's now it, you know 00:41:00it, it's just like you just see these green fields all over. But, so it was really, you know they made the land livable and you know good farming, you know farming, farming wise. And so then obviously, that's been turned back over to the you know to the tribes and you know tribes and stuff. But it makes me sad that like, you know that the internees get you know kind of taken advantage of you know, you know kind of in multiple ways. You know they're uprooted and then they're like, not forced labor, but it was like, "Well, here's what you, what you're going to have do." Because it was a movie, it's called "Passing Poston". You know, I thought that was really pretty compelling. We saw that years ago.

Emma Saito Lincoln: Do you happen to know if your parents, well I guess it would be your father, received redress payment?

Ken Oba: H-he did.

Emma Saito Lincoln: And an apology letter.

Ken Oba: He did, but my mother didn't 'cause she was deceased because you had to be surviving, but my dad, dad did.

Emma Saito Lincoln: And at that time, were you very aware or did you understand what the redress movement was about?

Ken Oba: I'd say yes. Yeah, I was.

Emma Saito Lincoln: And do you remember how your father reacted when he received his check and his letter?

Ken Oba: I think he was happy obviously to you know get, get the money. I don't know if you know the apology meant you know that, that much to him or, or anything like that. I think I do have that letter in you know in his, you know a few of his you know papers.

Emma Saito Lincoln: I think maybe to wrap up here, I have a few questions sort of looking, looking forward into the future. And, what would you most like your children and your grandchildren and future generations to know about your own 00:43:00life but also about your family's history?

Ken Oba: Well, tell you the truth, I don't think you know for, for my life, I just hope, hope they know that you know I did our, you know my wife and I did our best to, you know for our kids and you know our, our, our grandkids. But I'd say in terms of like a more dramatic you know struggle and effort, you know that was you know like my parents... But also like my, my, my wife's parents. So that's why I, I don't you know kind of emphasize you know what my parents did. But it was the same thing with my wife's parents you know they... You know long ago, they had come from Ireland you know and had to deal with, you know at the time, you know kind of you know discrimination in, in, in their own right. So it's more like to my kids of, of recognizing that you know kind of in terms of 00:44:00social justice that you know people want to come to America and you know they, they deserve that right to make their lives here and you know you need to you know you need to kind of respect you know, respect that as citizens of the world I think.

Emma Saito Lincoln: And what would you like to see happening in the Chicago Japanese American community today and into the future?

Ken Oba: I think it's kind of difficult 'cause they're... I think the Japanese American community is you know kind of dwindling just 'cause you know like, you know... But I'd say t-to you know to honor, you know I'd say the people that came to Chicago and... But the Japanese culture, that's why a lot of the things that JASC does I think are, are really, are really wonderful. Especially like 00:45:00we're seeing here, like the Tampopo, you know program, I think that's, that's really wonderful. But also with the eye that that's like how, you know what all people want that you know come here, whether they come from you know, Mexico or the Middle East and you know to really you know kind, kind of embrace that. Again, it's like citizens of the world 'cause I think that's you know, I think that's what's more important going forward.

Emma Saito Lincoln: Would you say that your, your own relationship with the Japanese American community has, has changed over time?

Ken Oba: I'll say I understand it a bit more, especially you know being here at the JASC and you know attending a number of the events, and you know just seeing what the JASC does on a, on a daily basis. So I, it's given me like a lot of, you know a lot of appreciation. And then one aspect of that is like, well, they 00:46:00haven't been here for a while now, but like the Judo group that was here, you know just, just seeing you know that as part of you know the culture is, you know interesting.

Emma Saito Lincoln: Since some of the work that you've done here as a volunteer was with the Legacy Center collections, I'd like to know why you think the Japanese American Legacy Center-- Japanese American Service Committee Legacy Center matters?

Ken Oba: Well I think the, you know I'm primarily familiar with the, the photo, you know the photo collections, but I think they really document you know an important period you know for those families. But also you know historically for Japanese in Chicago and you know what they, what they did growing up. And, you know I, I really think that's important, and so that you know their, you know 00:47:00maybe members of their family or people that knew them can view that. But also you know people you know interested in, you know history or I want to say, I don't know if it's like social science, but you know they can kind of see well this is, you know how the people, how, how, how they kind of lived.

Emma Saito Lincoln: And to close things out here, what do you love most about living in Chicago?

Ken Oba: 'Cause it has all the good memories of you know me growing up, and raising my kids, meeting my wife. You know it's, it's just really, it's just really, it's just really home, you know I just really, you know 'cause it's the only place I've known as, as home. I love going to the West Coast, but you know really, really love coming back to Chicago.

Emma Saito Lincoln: Well, I think that's, that's it for my questions. Thank you very much.