Oya, Merry (10/5/2018)

Anna Takada: This is an interview with Merry Oya as part of the Japanese American Service Committee and Chicago Japanese American Historical Society Oral History project. The interview is being conducted on October 5th, 2018 at the Japanese American Service Committee in Chicago. Merry Oya is being interviewed by Anna Takada of the Japanese American Service Committee. So to start, can you just state your full name?

Merry Oya: Merry. Well, I'm just going to use my initial Merry Y. Oya.

Anna Takada: And where and when were you born?

Merry Oya: I was born, Troy, Montana, March 29th, 1924.

Anna Takada: And, the... kind of the way that these conversations will go is we like to hear a little bit of background about your family and then hear about what happened to your family during the war, where you all went, and then like I mentioned, resettlement in Chicago. So to start, can you tell me a little bit about your, your parents, what their names were and where they were from?

Merry Oya: My father and mother, were, they're from Japan. Do you want to know the location?

Anna Takada: That'd be great!

Merry Oya: From the Wakayama district area.

Anna Takada: Both of them?

Merry Oya: Both of them. Mhmm.

Anna Takada: And what, what were their names?

Merry Oya: My father's name is Tomekichi Oya, and my mother's name is Riki Oya, but she used to be, before she was married, her maiden name was Riki Ueyama.

Anna Takada: And how did they end up in Montana? Or, or I guess, can you tell me about when and why they came to the US?

Merry Oya: Well, my, my father came first. He wasn't married at the time. My father came first because as, as did so many other Japanese men, but, he had an opportunity to work on the railroads. And I think many of the Japanese men who came worked on the railroads.

Anna Takada: Do you know what year or around what time that was?

Merry Oya: No, I don't. I mean, if I'd known you were going to ask me those-- I do have some data at home, but I don't think I can give you the dates.

Anna Takada: That's not a problem. It's a very specific question. So do y--, like as far as ballpark, was that early 1900s or?

Merry Oya: Oh, oh yes. Yeah, I think it was in the probably 1800s? Yeah I think so, because my, my father came first, worked, and then he went back to Japan and then he, I don't know if, I don't know if it was ar--, it didn't sound that way, like an arranged marriage. But then they were married and then they both came back to the States.

Anna Takada: So did they marry in Japan?

Merry Oya: They married in Japan.

Anna Takada: And when he first came, do you know where he stayed or where in the U.S. he came to?

Merry Oya: Well, I think most of them when they came to Japan, they came in by way of Seattle, Washington, because they came by ship.

Anna Takada: And did he, did he move to Montana from there? Or where did he go from--

Merry Oya: Oh he w--, I think he went directly to Montana where he, where the, where the job was awaiting him.

Anna Takada: And when he and your mother came, did they go back to Montana?

Merry Oya: Actually, what happened was my, my father continued to work on the railroad, but my mother, I, I think she first stayed in Seattle and then she 00:05:00moved to a city in Montana because she, she couldn't travel with my father because he was actually working in the railroads. And it was all, I, I guess, it was all men employed because they were laying out the railroads for the, for the trains. So it was all... My father, I guess, I, I wouldn't call it a gang or a railroad gang group, but it was all men who were working, working on the railroad, laying out the rails for the trains and my mother found a job in Montana where she worked as a cook for well these, for a group of men who worked, she, she, excuse me, lived in a place, in a city called Whitefish, which 00:06:00was, in, in those days, Whitefish was known as a town where when the trains came through, they, they changed engines. So there were many, at that time, many Japanese working in that area too. So my, and they stayed at a place they used to call a, was more like a, well I think they, I think that was referred to as a rooming house for the men that worked there. And my mother got a job working as a cook.

Anna Takada: But at that time did you say that she was not staying with your father?

Merry Oya: Right.

Anna Takada: Mhmm. So it was, so do know, was your father then staying in a 00:07:00rooming house separately?

Merry Oya: No, no, no. He, the men that worked on the railroad, they traveled with the, with the work.

Anna Takada: Oh, I see. And so at some point, I imagine they were reunited?

Merry Oya: Right. Well then he, I don't know how it happened, but then he ended up in, in Whitefish where my mother was. And I think he lived in Whitefish for a while. And, and at that time I have a brother and a sister.

Anna Takada: And were they--

Merry Oya: I'm the oldest and my sister was next to me. And my, my brother at that time was, I was, he was still a baby.

Anna Takada: So they had you in 1925. And then, and that was in Montana?

Merry Oya: Yeah, I was born 1924. So my sister must have been born 1926. She was two years younger than me. But my brother was, I think he was born in 1930s, 'cause he was much, he was much younger than my sister.

Anna Takada: And is, is Troy far from Whitefish?

Merry Oya: I think so, but now I mean when I tell people where I was born, I can only say that it was really a small town. And in fact it may, may not even exist now.

Anna Takada: So very, very small town.

Merry Oya: Yes. But I was born in Mo-- in Troy, but my sister and my brother, they were born in Whitefish.

Anna Takada: Okay. Was that because of the move?

Merry Oya: Well, well because my father was working in the railroads, so I'm not quite sure how that ended up, but I know that-- because early on my mother was able to travel with the railroad too. So I think that's what happened. That's how I was born in Troy. But, but then after that my mother returned to Whitefish and she remained as a, as a cook to these people. And the three of us, the children, stayed in Whitefish for a while.

Anna Takada: And was that while your father was still moving the railroad?

Merry Oya: Mhmm. Yes. Uh-huh.

Anna Takada: Can you tell me a little bit more about what, what Troy was like 00:10:00and what it was growing up there?

Merry Oya: I can't tell you anything about Troy because I actually I--

Anna Takada: Oh, I'm sorry, Whitefish. Right.

Merry Oya: ...I, I wasn't really living there at the time.

Anna Takada: Sure. I'm sorry, Whitefish.

Merry Oya: But Whitefish was a small town, had not too many Japanese that were living, living there. But it was big enough that the, the laundry, the, the Japanese were pretty successful in that town because I remember the laundry was owned by a Japanese, the hotel was owned by a Japanese, there was a big farm that was owned by a Japanese. So I guess the, the few Japanese that lived there did, did, did quite well.

Anna Takada: Mhmm.

Merry Oya: And I, my, and then, but in the interim, my father died early too. So 00:11:00my mother was more or less keeping us together. And I, I think I finished, I think I stayed in Whitefish until I finished my sixth grade, through my sixth grade. And, and then, and then at that point, I think my mother realized that she couldn't make a living, living in Whitefish. So we moved to Seattle.

Anna Takada: After you completed the sixth grade?

Merry Oya: Mhmm, mhmm.

Anna Takada: What were, what were some of the main demographics of Whitefish? You mentioned there were a couple of Japanese American families?

Merry Oya: Well, Whitefish was a, as I said, it was a railroad town, but it was a, it was a small town. In, in fact, right now, this is many, many years after 00:12:00now, Whitefish is now like a resort area because it has surrounded by mountains, lake, fishing. I mean that's that's, now that's all taking place. But then at, when, at the time I lived there, it was all there. But we, we didn't think of it as a, a, one of those resort areas. And I, because I know we, we were near a lake and we used to go swimming in the summertime and then, and in the winter we used to go sledding.

Anna Takada: And...

Merry Oya: Well, you have to realize too, when I was young, you know, things were different entirely. (laughs) Not only the city, but you know the whole world was kind of different at the time too, so...

Anna Takada: Do you mean as far as like activities as a child?

Merry Oya: Activities, and yeah.

Anna Takada: What were some other activities that you remember doing as a, as a kid in Whitefish?

Merry Oya: Well, actually there wasn't, there wasn't too much, but I think one thing I remember is, I don't remember discrimination, and, and it may be because there were so few of us living there, but I know that when we were in school, all the children, you know acce-- not accepted us, but they, I think they thought we were just part of the, part of the group there. And I don't ever recall being discriminated in any way while we were living there.

Anna Takada: Mhmm. Were there any other kids or, or families, minority families?

Merry Oya: Well there were, I, I think, as I said, there were a few Japan--, maybe there were about six, six or eight Japanese families that lived in Whitefish. And I think, I don't know how long they were... When we left Whitefish, they, I know that the families that were still there were there for a long time

Anna Takada: After you left?

Merry Oya: Right. Mhmm.

Anna Takada: And how about family life? Did you grow up religious at all?

Merry Oya: Well, my mother was a Buddhist from the beginning and I, I started attending a, a Presbyterian church. And I think, and I, I'm thinking back, I think the only reason I attended that was the minister of the Presbyterian church happened to be visiting the Japanese families. And I, I think, I mean 00:15:00this is, this is my version, I think he thought that the kids were growing to be heathens. So, so he invited us to attend his, his church and that's how I, I started. But then I enjoyed that because the, the, the kids were friendly and the teachers there were very nice. And I remember going to a party they had, so actually I had a lot of, despite my mother's hardship, I still had a nice, you know, nice childhood, in my younger days.

Anna Takada: What makes you say or, or think that, about the priest's intentions? What makes you think that--

Merry Oya: Of the what?

Anna Takada: --that he addressed... The reasons why he addressed Japanese families?

Merry Oya: Why I mentioned them?

Anna Takada: Or you mentioned that you thought that he was possibly reaching out 00:16:00to Japanese families because, to try to prevent people from growing up to be heathens?

Merry Oya: Well, well I mean that's my version because he was, he was visiting, I think he wanted to make sure that the kids weren't just running wild. You know, maybe Sunday school was a good place for them to be. Be-because now that I recall, my sister, I don't think she, I don't think she went to church, and my brother was too young to be attending church anyway.

Anna Takada: Mhmm. And what year or at what age did your father pass away?

Merry Oya: I think, my, my-- The age of my father? I think he was about fif-- forty-- 47 or anyway he, he, I would say passed pretty young because the only 00:17:00one in my family that remembers my father, I'm the only one that remembers my father, my sister barely, and my brother didn't know him at all.

Anna Takada: So it sounds like your mother was raising--

Merry Oya: Yeah, my mother.

Anna Takada: ...you and your siblings.

Merry Oya: Mhmm, mhmm.

Anna Takada: And growing up, did you... Were you speaking Japanese at home, or what languages were you--

Merry Oya: Well, well at that time my mother didn't know English too well, but, so she spoke Japanese. And because she spoke Japanese, the children pretty much understood what, you know, the conversation that was going on.

Anna Takada: Okay. So you mentioned in sixth grade your family moved to Seattle. 00:18:00Can you tell me more about the move and maybe what kind of work your mom did?

Merry Oya: Well, my mother, b-because she was a, needed to support herself and children, my mother knew a couple of good friends in Seattle who encouraged her to come to Seattle. So we moved, and my mother found an apartment and she found... I think the first, I think the first job she found was helping, got a job at a cleaners. And then I know she had several jobs and she also had found a job because my mother was a, was a good cook. She also found a, a job at a home 00:19:00where the, the family, the mother had passed away. So they needed somebody to do their, not domestic work, but to do their cooking and things like that. And I know my mother had several different jobs.

Anna Takada: So sounds like she was just trying to, to make a living to, to raise three kids?

Merry Oya: And in the summer, Seattle, maybe you knew this already, but it was a big vegetable and fruit growing area. So in the summertime the farmers needed workers. So that's what my mother and the, and the, and the children, we went to these different places where they needed farm workers.

Anna Takada: One thing, I, I actually want to quickly go back to Whitefish for a 00:20:00second because... So you went to a Presbyterian church, though your mother was Buddhist and it sounds like there probably weren't enough families or people practicing Buddhism for a church?

Merry Oya: Oh, no, because all the Japanese families, the few families that were there, I don't think, none of them, the adults anyway, went to church. And I imagine they were all Buddhist too.

Anna Takada: So in that case, I imagine you probably didn't go to Japanese school or anything like that either?

Merry Oya: Right. But my, but my mother, she wanted to make sure that her, the children knew some Japanese, so she did teach us some Japanese. Well, I mean, we knew some of the words, but she taught us how to write Japanese. So, and I guess 00:21:00it was sufficient that when we, when we moved to Seattle, well you may already know this, but the, the Japanese who lived in these Seattle and town, you know, most of the children went to Japanese school after regular-- after attending the regular school. Well, fortunately my mother, I guess, taught us enough that I, I ended up in the fifth grade in the Japanese school. So I was really surprised that I could do that.

Anna Takada: Mhmm. That is very impressive, to be able to just jump right in.

Merry Oya: Yeah (laughs)

Anna Takada: Would you happen to remember your first impressions of Seattle when you moved there?

Merry Oya: Mmm... My first impression?

Anna Takada: Was it very different from Whitefish or?

Merry Oya: Well, when I, when we lived in Montana, it, it was, we were just 00:22:00surrounded by mountains and lakes. And when we moved to Se-- Whitefish, the area, the atmosphere itself was, I don't think was too different because you were still... You could see in the mountain, you could see the lakes, and so I would say that maybe it was, could have been different because we were in, as I said, in the railroad town and we used to see the trains coming through town. And I, I guess as a, as a child, I wasn't thinking too, too much about things like that.

Anna Takada: Sure. And as a, a child in Seattle, were there any new kind of activities? You mentioned that you were working on the farm?

Merry Oya: Oh, that was in the summer.

Anna Takada: Only in the summertime?

Merry Oya: Summer, yeah.

Anna Takada: And how about the demographics of Seattle at that time?

Merry Oya: Well...

Anna Takada: I would imagine it was a bit more people in general.

Merry Oya: Oh yeah, a lot more people. Oh, in fact, in fact now that you mention it, I went, I started seventh grade and I was in an area and then-- and, and I saw a lot more people in Seattle, but I saw a lot more Asians too. And, and what really struck me was when I started seventh grade was, the, the room, seventh grade classroom I was in, it was, except for one Caucasian, everyone was an Asian, which was, they were mostly Japanese and a few Chinese. And, and, and not 00:24:00seeing too many Asians you know where I, where I came from, I was really bowled over to see so many. (laughs)

Anna Takada: Sure, yeah. That must have been a first for you?

Merry Oya: Yeah. But, but that school also, I guess, because it was in... Maybe it was a Japanese... Maybe, maybe many Japanese that lived in the area? I don't know, but I know the whole school was pretty much predominantly Asian.

Anna Takada: Did that have any kind of impact on how you saw your own identity or did you not really think about it?

Merry Oya: No, it, it was just that I, when I saw so many Japane--, you know not, not seeing hardly any Japanese before and I saw all these kids around me were all Asians.

Anna Takada: What part of, do you remember what part of Seattle you were living in at that time?

Merry Oya: Oh, not really. Not really.

Anna Takada: But it sounds like there were plenty of other Japanese and Chinese families?

Merry Oya: Uh-huh, yeah. I think there were quite a few Chi-- Japanese living in Seattle, because at that time they already had a like a Japanesetown and a Chinatown... But, I remember those two areas.

Anna Takada: Let's see. And so, did you, were you still in Seattle through high school then as well?

Merry Oya: I went to high school through, I went seventh grade, junior high, and I went to one year of high school and then we, we moved to Oregon. You know, my mother had to go look for a job, so we ended up on a farm. She knew someo--, she 00:26:00knew a family that owned a farm, so we moved to Oregon. So my mother became like a farmer again and, and be-because we lived on a farm you know, we were able to get plenty of fresh fruits and vegetables. And so you know, that helped my mother. But then for us, for the children too, we were able to work, work, because we could do some, some things that would be helpful. So, so we were on the, we stayed at the farm until the war, war started.

Anna Takada: What kind of farm was it?

Merry Oya: It was mostly a truck farm, but it was mostly fruits, strawberries and berries.

Anna Takada: And so you mentioned that you were, on the farm, you were able to 00:27:00help out more. In your mother's various other positions before that in Seattle, did you help out in any kind of way or do you have any memories of helping her?

Merry Oya: You mean as far as economy is concerned, with money or?

Anna Takada: Or, or you know if, if she was at the cleaners or, you know, if there was any way you all helped out?

Merry Oya: No. Well, when we were in Oregon, we just, we were at the farm all that time while I was in the high school for two years.

Anna Takada: And as far as-- So it sounds like the kind of the trajectory of your family, it was with the help of friends that your mother knew, were these friends from Japan?

Merry Oya: Well, I think they originally were. Well, these, the people that own, 00:28:00that...well they didn't actually they didn't really own the, the land. You know they couldn't own land at that time. But so it must have been typically you know a lot of Japanese had farm, farmlands to work, so this person had a big area so he had a lot of people working for him too, farm hands.

Anna Takada: Mhmm. What were some of your, your duties working on the farm?

Merry Oya: Well we, after school we had to help with whatever farm work. I mean, if you work on a farm, you're always working, doing some things.

Anna Takada: How did you, how did you, as a kid, or I guess a teenager at this point, how did you feel about the farm work? Did you enjoy it or?

Merry Oya: Well, I didn't mind it. The only farm work I didn't, I didn't really like was strawberries, because straw--, when you're, when you're picking strawberry, you're on your knees all the time. You know you're not standing or sitting, you're on your, you know you're squatting. So for me that was really something that I really didn't care for. And I still have memories of when I used to work in the strawberry patches.

Anna Takada: And as kids, were you all earning money that way?

Merry Oya: Oh yeah, we, we were, we were paid for whatever we were doing. For instance, if you, if you're, if you're working the berries, you know you, if you, whatever quantity you were picking, you got paid for that amount that you picked so... And it was the same as the adults except that since we were slower, 00:30:00we didn't get much as the adults were.

Anna Takada: Sure. And where were you, what was your living situation at that time?

Merry Oya: Well, we lived in a, a place well, because they had other workers and they, and I think these buildings were called bunk houses. And the workers, they, I think each family was afforded... Well it was like a cabin and I think there were like three rooms. So it was like a bedroom, couple of bedrooms and kitchen. And the rooms were small, but it, it was, they were comfortable.

Anna Takada: And so I imagine, it must have been on this farm, well you said it 00:31:00was on this farm when the war broke out that you, your family was living. Can you tell me about your, your memories of the war starting, and...

Merry Oya: Oh, well, I know that we were all work, working. I don't, I forgot what we were doing. But anyway, we were working and then we heard somebody came in and said that Japan started the war. And of course we were all shocked to hear, hear the news about that. And then, so then, I think that, I, well especially the Issei's were wondering what was going to be happening to them, because it was a war against their, the former country. So I know for a couple days there, there was anxiety as to what was going to be happening to the 00:32:00Japanese. And then right after that we heard that about the evacuation, about... But then, that's when, you know, the treatment of the Japanese got a little bit offhand and we were told that we had to leave. And of course, my, since my mother didn't really own anything, so to speak. For her it wasn't so much of a tragedy of, of economy or being able to support herself because we, we all had to leave at the same time with, with whatever we were able to take with us.

Anna Takada: Just a, a couple of quick questions. The, so the, the man who, he 00:33:00didn't own the property but he was Japanese, the, the head person. And as far as the farm hands and other people on the farm, were they mostly Japanese?

Merry Oya: They were all Japanese.

Anna Takada: All Japanese?

Merry Oya: Japanese, yeah.

Anna Takada: And you mentioned that after the start of the war, the treatment of Japanese changed?

Merry Oya: Well, well, as, as far as attitude I wasn't too aware of it. Because where, where we were across, across the road, it was a family, Caucasian family. They, they didn't really own a farm except they had their own farm, but it wasn't big enough I guess for them to hire people. But a very nice family, I 00:34:00know that when the restrictions came and we weren't allowed to be out you know a certain time of the day or at night, this family had their own, just for their own purpose, they had a cow so they used to have milk and they had eggs. So what, what we, what we used to, what they used to do was they would sneak over across the street and give us milk and eggs and whatever. I mean, they were really, really... When I hear about stories about other people and I think about this family, you know I'm, I'm so appreciative that, that they were that way.

Anna Takada: Do you remember their names?

Merry Oya: Well, their name was Carlin. I remember them. And it was a Mr. Carlin and his wife and then they had two boys. And the boys, the boys, the younger boy 00:35:00was about the same age as my brother and they went to the same school, and they got along well because be-before all this happened, they used to go across the street and play with each other, and... But the reason I say they were so kind was when we, you know later, later on, after we were settled in the camps, you know we were permitted to, or maybe this is after we resettled in Chicago, we were permitted to receive some of the things that were stored. And we, and they had, the Carlin family had restored for us, we didn't have too much furniture, but a, a double bed and a dresser. And, and they kept that for us, the Carlin family kept those two things for us. And then when we were able to receive the furniture, they, I think the government shipped them. But nonetheless, you know 00:36:00the Carlin family took care of everything. And then, and then I remember the very first Christmas in the camp, we got a, a package. It was, it wasn't really a Christmas when I opened it, it was holly leaves because in the winter that area grew tons of holly with the berries. And anyway, we got this and I was really so shook up to see that. (laughs)

Anna Takada: A very kind gesture.

Merry Oya: Yeah, mhmm.

Anna Takada: So... Okay. So you learned about Pearl Harbor while you were on the farm, did... And you, and you mentioned that treatment in general, treatment of Japanese was, it kinda, it worsened I guess, after?

Merry Oya: Well, actually I didn't hear too much about you know... I mean 'cause I've heard of other stories about signs in the stores and all that kind of thing. 'Cause, since we didn't have access to go into town, I don't know if they had signs that said you know, discriminatory type of... But I know at the school, because we were still going to school, the, the, the student body didn't treat us any differently. At least I didn't notice that. And I know that the day when we actually left, when the buses took us to the, to the assembly center, the, the high school that I was going to, the, the student body came out on the street and, and waved goodbye to us.

Anna Takada: Wow. And actually, you know what, I'm going to, if you don't mind, 00:38:00I'm just going to adjust the microphone real quickly. It's getting a little scratchy. Pardon me, sorry about that, let's try this. These things are so temperamental sometimes, I have to get it in the right spot. That should be okay. Are you still comfortable?

Merry Oya: Mm-hmm.

Anna Takada: Okay. Okay, so we were talking about when, when your family actually left for evacuation, but first I, I want to ask you, do you remember like first getting word about the evacuation and hearing about it? Because you were, you were a teenager, so...

Merry Oya: Mhmm, mhmm.

Anna Takada: Do you remember your, your own personal response or reactions to that?

Merry Oya: Well, all I know is that, and then we heard on the radio, somebody heard on the radio about this, the war, that Pearl Harbor had been bombed. But, so I think all the Issei's were really concerned about that and we were 00:40:00wondering, I think they were wondering what was going to be, what the government was going to do. And then--

Anna Takada: So, were there rumors going around, or...

Merry Oya: Well, I, I didn't hear any ru-- I mean, there might have been, but maybe for the Issei's or the older, there might have been concern, more concern. But I didn't, I didn't really hear that. And neither did my mother, since she was just a worker there. But, but we did hear eventually, that, first, first thing we heard were if you owned any items like camera or radio, what, whatever, that those were going to be confiscated by the government. So I think that was more or less the first thing we heard that, as far as the government's action was concerned. But, but then after that, and I, I don't, and I don't really 00:41:00remember how it came about, but then I, I think we were told by the, the man who owned, that was working the farm, he told us that the government was about to eventually move, move us. And then we had this order about packing everything in 10 days, or one week, or whatever it was, and, and I think that was, I think that part was the most disturbing. And for my family for my mother, as my mother said, she said she was lucky she didn't have too many possessions that she had to really get rid of. Because, if you, if you own, owned the farm or anything connected, you know, it was more of a loss for them because so many farmers lost 00:42:00their land and so, so many other possessions, and, because you were limited in the amount, in the things, the, amount of things you could carry. So anyways, I said my mother, although there was a loss, still she, she realized that her loss wasn't as great as the, the people that she was working, the farm that she, the owner of the farm that she was working for.

Anna Takada: And so I, you mentioned that you wouldn't really go into town and I know that's how you know, oftentimes the government was posting signs to notify folks of this, but it sounds like the, the head farmer kind of reported back to 00:43:00you all to communicate the news, or...

Merry Oya: Well, I don't, I don't know how, I, I, I think that the authorities, the federal authorities probably came around too, to these various farms, Japanese farms and to tell them that, what's going to happen. And then so the, the owners would in turn tell us, but, but since, since I never got to go in town I don't know what the, what the, how they treated the Japanese customers if they went into town, because I didn't hear anything about that part.

Anna Takada: And I'm not sure if you mentioned, but what was the name of the town in Oregon?

Merry Oya: Oh, Gresham.

Anna Takada: Gresham.

Merry Oya: Which is, which is now, Gresham was a farm town, but Gresham is now, 00:44:00like so many other areas, is, is a suburb of Portland.

Anna Takada: So your, you and your family had to, to pack your things and you left the furniture as you mentioned with the family across the street. So where did you all go from there, or I g-- what, what happened next, after?

Merry Oya: Well, then that's when we, we were, we got the notice about, we were going to be put into a, a someplace in Portland. We were going to be all bused to Portland. So we had to put our things together and be ready at a, on a certain date, which wasn't, which, which was a, wasn't too much time for packing.

Anna Takada: You said a, a week, or...

Merry Oya: I think yeah. I know, I know, it's so limited, I mean how much can you do in a week, or two weeks, or whatever? Because, because you could carry, you could only take with you whatever you can carry.

Anna Takada: Right. And I, I imagine too, just having to prepare to kind of uproot in general, there are a number of steps.

Merry Oya: Yeah because, there was, actually my, some people had to help my mother get, get her stuff ready for, for her family. So it was, it was kind of an ordeal for my mother, but somehow she managed. But, but this, and then when we were told to be ready at a certain time or, and be ready at a certain place, 00:46:00when we got there we saw all these Japanese families with their belongings. And I, I kinda think that maybe at that point it, it kinda hit us that you know, we were really losing, losing our... Well, I, I even though I was a teenager at the time, I was thinking that, "I wonder if we're ever going to be coming back here?" And, and you know, and I also was wondering, "What's going to happen to us after we-- I mean, what's in Portland? They're going to send us to Portland, what's in Portland?"

Anna Takada: So there was, no one really had any kind of idea?

Merry Oya: Well, there, there might have been, there might have been, but it was, at least I wasn't aware of it. But I know that the person in ch-- that was 00:47:00operating the farm, at least he told everybody that was working for him what was, what was about to happen, so we did what we thought we were told.

Anna Takada: Do you remember having any conversations within your family about what was happening, either with your mom or your younger siblings? Because I, your brother was much younger.

Merry Oya: Yeah, well no. So we followed along with the owner, whoever, whatever they were going to do, my mother was going to follow along with them. Even though we didn't know where we were, where we were goi-- I mean, we knew where we were going, to Portland, but we didn't know where or, or what's there. So my mother just followed along with them.

Anna Takada: So what happened when you arrived to, to Portland?

Merry Oya: Well then we found out that we were going to be in an, this assembly center, which was really... What, what do they call those places where they keep horses?

Anna Takada: A racetrack?

Merry Oya: A rac-- yeah, it's a race track place. And I wouldn't call it a room, but it was, I guess it's one of those stable rooms where the horses stayed. So they just dumped all our stuff into that, into that area and I... and told us that that's where we were going to be staying... And I didn't hear for how long or anything but that was going to, but, but they said it was going to be temporary, but we, we didn't know what that meant by temporary, whether we were going to a better housing arrangement or if we, if we were going to be moving on again.

Anna Takada: Can you describe the, the space where you and your family were, 00:49:00were staying?

Merry Oya: Well, all I can remember is that it was like a one room place and I think, I think there was, I think there were cots there, but I don't think there was too much furniture. And at, at least I, if there were, I would probably remember the, I would remember the type of furniture. So I, I don't really remember t-- because in, actually we were in Portland, but not too long because we were immediately evacuated to Tule Lake.

Anna Takada: So how long do you think you stayed in the assembly center?

Merry Oya: Well, it just, it just seemed like maybe several weeks? And well, we, 00:50:00we heard, maybe it was a rumor, but we heard that eventu--, and, and all the people that lived in Portland ended up in that same assembly center. And we, we heard that eventually everybody that was in that assembly center would eventually go to Tule Lake. We heard that, so, so our, our group decided as long as we were going to be going to Tule Lake, we, we couldn't take the condition in, in Portland, we decided that we would be, we would join the group that's going down to Tule Lake. And so because we had that opportunity, we didn't stay in Portland too long, but that was another train, train ride from Portland Assembly Center out to Tule Lake. But then we found out later that the Portland 00:51:00people were not going to Tule Lake. I don't, I forget where they ended up, but... Well, I think they went to another assembly center close to, close to Portland. Yeah, I think so. So anyway, we ended up in Tule Lake after a long train ride which was miserable. They asked us to close the windows, the blinds so we, we couldn't see out and they had soldiers in our car guarding us.

Anna Takada: What were your, your feelings at the time or your reactions to kind of...

Merry Oya: For the treatment we were getting?

Anna Takada: Yeah.

Merry Oya: Well, I, I, I know my, my mother was really miserable about all this, 00:52:00but I, 'cause I, I thought since we would be moving anyway, I thought maybe I could, I could tolerate it for a little while anyway. And as, as I said, since we were in Portland for only a short time anyway, I thought the opportunity-- And, and my mother thought so too, the opportunity to move out into supposedly more better housing and all that.

Anna Takada: And how about your, your feelings or reactions when you had first arrived to Portland assembly center?

Merry Oya: Tule L-- In, in Portland? You know at the assembly center?

Anna Takada: Because that was really, that was like your first day, and a pretty drastic change from...

Merry Oya: Well, because, well they, it was organized so that there was like a dining hall and it was organized according to whatever group you were in. And, 00:53:00and I, and you know that, that to this day, I can't remember that the, the bathing and shower facilities. And sometimes I wonder, did I really take a bath while I was there?

Anna Takada: Right, it might be more telling that you can't remember even.

Merry Oya: Yeah, because otherwise I was thinking that I would remember what the facilities look like. But I know that off and on I would think about that, and I think, gee, did I take a bath? (laughs)

Anna Takada: It was only a couple weeks. (laughs) How old was your brother at this time, would you say?

Merry Oya: My brother must have been about... He was going to school, fir--, 00:54:00sec-- he must have been in first or second grade because I know that the school that he was attending, it was a, it was one of these country schools and it was like a two room. 'Cause I know like the first row was the first graders, the second row was the second graders, that kind of a setup.

Anna Takada: A schoolhouse.

Merry Oya: Yeah. So he must have been about 6, 7, 8? 6, 7, 8...

Anna Takada: And you said that I think it was your third year of high school, that was the year of the evacuation?

Merry Oya: Third year. Mhmm.

Anna Takada: And so would it have been like in the springtime? Probably April that year?

Merry Oya: The evacuation?

Anna Takada: Does that sound about right?

Merry Oya: Yeah, because we, we more or less were finishing our grades, so...

Anna Takada: So then what ha-- when you arrived to the assembly center, did you continue school, or...

Merry Oya: We, no, not, not in the assembly center. I don't, I don't think it was planned that way because the government was probably thinking that it's going to be temporary anyway. So I mean, that's, that was my thinking about that, because except for the, the dining facilities to feed the people, that, that was the only organized thing that I can remember in the camp.

Anna Takada: Okay. So you took the train to, to Tule Lake. Can you tell me more about arriving to Tule Lake, what that was like?

Merry Oya: Well, it was a, I guess we didn't, first of all, I guess we didn't 00:56:00really know what we were supposed to be doing. We, we got off, we had this train ride from Portland to the Tule Lake, and it was, it was a long ride too, and hardly any facilities. But eventually, we did get to Tule Lake. But there, again, we were assigned the barracks that we were, we were to go to. And when we got into our assigned barracks, we discovered there were cots for the beds, and I think there might have been chairs, and maybe a table. I don't, I don't really remember that too clearly. But, and it, and it w--, it was such a disappointing thing, because it was, the place was bare. And I think, I think they had 00:57:00blankets on the, on the cots, but, but that was about it. And then, they had a, I think it was, I think it was like a potbelly stove, and I, I think there were a couple chairs, but to me it was such a small room for... Even though there was just one adult and three children, it to me it seemed like such a small room for a family. And it was hard getting settled in a, you know in, in an unfamiliar arrangement.

Anna Takada: And you were still with, you had gone with Tule Lake with folks from the farm, so they were, were they nearby?

Merry Oya: Not, not near, not that... But we were in the, because they were by 00:58:00barracks. They were in the, and, and the barracks composed, composed, the ward consisted of barracks, but this family was in another barrack, in another area-- but in the same area as us, so at least we could see them.

Anna Takada: Mhmm. And, do you know about what time of year this was that you would have arrived?

Merry Oya: Oh, well I would think it might have been during the summer, because it's right after we finished school. I was at Portland, so it probably was in the summer?

Anna Takada: And um--

Merry Oya: Because I think later on, they were talking about starting a school for the, for the people that needed the schooling, or the education. And I think 00:59:00that was probably in the summertime they were talking about that.

Anna Takada: And so, for a, a teenager, what was kind of like your daily life like in camp at Tule Lake?

Merry Oya: After we got, after we got to Tule Lake?

Anna Takada: Mm-hmm.

Merry Oya: Well, it was organized in such a way that one, one area of the ward, where the other barracks were, by then they were trying to have some kind of a management system for the, for the camp. And so for each ward, there was like a manager, who more or less was a, was a person you should go to for information, or whatever. And he, he's one who looked, looked, made sure that everybody was 01:00:00settled and... Which was, really, a big, big job for him, but anyway, we got settled, but... It, it was really, it was, I mean, I know so many people managed, but it was really, it was hard to get settled in a place where you don't have, you, you barely brought your own bedding, for one thing, and other necessities that you needed. So in the, in the beginning it was really hard for I think most of the people that came to camp.

Anna Takada: How did people address those kinds of issues?

Merry Oya: Well, I think we all did the same thing, we had to... And, and then, well typically, dust storms, which was another, another thing that we, we were 01:01:00never used to. And the, these barracks were constructed in such a way that it was not seal proof, so that even though your windows were closed, your doors were closed, sand would still come. And it, if you were sleeping during the night, you might wake up with sand on your b-blanket. It was really, yeah, I remember the sand.

Anna Takada: And so, there was talk of starting the, the schools up, did you eventually end up going to school?

Merry Oya: Well, I, I was a senior then, and they were already talking about opening a school. But then they were recruiting for teachers, and I know some, 01:02:00some of them were probably certified teachers, but then they didn't have enough people to be teaching, so I, I know there were quite a few college-aged students or people, that were actually doing some teaching too.

Anna Takada: And, so did you, yourself, go back to, or continue, school for your final year of high school?

Merry Oya: Do you mean after we left camp?

Anna Takada: No, in camp.

Merry Oya: Well, we I went to, we, they, they did organize the camp, so that it was... I guess if you, so, you still had your specialty, what, whatever course that you wanted to take, they still apparently had teachers that could teach 01:03:00things like that. But, actually, I didn't, I didn't think, I didn't feel I got much of an education in camp.

Anna Takada: Just the quality wasn't there, or...

Merry Oya: Yeah, I think so. And, I sometimes felt that the teachers, especially the, the Caucasian teachers that were there, they, they must have been hard up to get teachers. I mean that was my feeling that-- Because after you've been in a, in a school where you have good teachers, and you have teachers that can answer your questions, and take time. The teachers that I had in my, at camp were not that type. So, for me, it was very discouraging to me. So I really admire these people that left camp and went on to college, and were able to, 01:04:00yeah because they were, despite all that they were still able to finish school, you know. So that was one of my great regrets.

Anna Takada: Did your mother work in camp?

Merry Oya: She worked as a, as a cook, that worked in, that worked in the kitchen. Yeah many of the, many of the women worked in the kitchen as cooks, or dishwashers, or whatever was needed in the kitchen you know so-- And many of the women did that, although some of the women, Issei women I noticed, because they were professionals so to speak, you know, teaching arts and knitting, those kinds of things. Eventually, those groups were started, and so, I know many of the women did join those groups. And I think they enjoyed doing things like 01:05:00that, because it was kind of a change for them.

Anna Takada: Maybe something to kind of pass the time?

Merry Oya: Yeah, and to be with you know friends, or get to know other people.

Anna Takada: And did you, did you make friends in camp?

Merry Oya: Oh yeah, I did, because of my classmates I did. I made some good friends, but then after the camp closed, after we had to leave Tule Lake, then we all got separated. And, and a few I kept up with, but then, along the way, you know the, I don't know what happened to these people because then they, they also had moved on to other things.

Anna Takada: How long were you in Tule Lake with your family, would you say?

Merry Oya: I think I was there maybe, maybe two years, I think. Let's see, I 01:06:00graduated in '43 and I think I left... '44... I think I left in '44. So, I think I was in camp about two years?

Anna Takada: And so where did you, in 1944, where did you go?

Merry Oya: Well then, Tule Lake was a camp, you probably know. So, we got sent to Minidoka, back up to Idaho. And I mean other people went to other camps, too, but they, they removed us because they wanted to make Tule Lake a segregated camp for the people that wanted to return to Japan and...

Anna Takada: What they called "maximum security", and...

Merry Oya: Yeah.

Anna Takada: So in '44 you left for Minidoka; can you tell me what Min-Minidoka was--

Merry Oya: Actually, we didn't stay in Minidoka too long, either, because my mother wanted to get, get out.

Anna Takada: It's a lot, yeah.

Merry Oya: So I don't know, I mean, I don't think we were even there maybe six months. I mean we were, it just seemed like we were in there and we, my mother was really anxious to, really anxious to leave, so, and we had friends in Chicago so... And they had encouraged, encouraged my mother to come to Chicago. So that's how we ended up in Chicago.

Anna Takada: Would that have been still in 1944, or maybe 1945?

Merry Oya: Might have been about '44.

Anna Takada: How did Minidoka compare to Tule Lake?

Merry Oya: Well, I couldn't really make a comparison, because as I said, we were in Minidoka such a short time. But then of course, by the time we got to Minidoka, the, the atmosphere was different, and Minidoka was not like Tule Lake where you had a lot of sandstorms. And, for me it was like a, for me, I thought it was like a cleaner environment, to be there.

Anna Takada: And by that time, you said that you had graduated--

Merry Oya: Well, I graduated from Tule Lake school, I mean, high school in Tule Lake.

Anna Takada: So did you work in Minidoka, or were you just--

Merry Oya: Well, when, when we were in Tule Lake, we worked until we started school. I did, I think everybody that was eligible did work I, I, you know, either in the offices, or in the kitchen, or out-outdoors. I think the men worked outdoors in the farms and things. Yeah, so everybody that could, I think did, did work.

Anna Takada: What, what did you do?

Merry Oya: Well I had a, I had a job a short time working in an office, which gave me a chance to practice my so-called office skills. And that was enjoyable.

Anna Takada: So, can you tell me more about this connection your mother had in, 01:10:00in Chicago, and sort of the process of leaving camp?

Merry Oya: Oh well, my mother, through friends in Chicago, we, we managed, my mother managed to find a... well, I wouldn't call it an apartment, but it was a building where the kitchen, it was all separate rooms. The kitchen, had two bedrooms, I think that was it, kitchen... So, and because, because there were only the three rooms, my sister decided that she's going to work as domestic help or something. So she can, not only, she didn't like the arrangement anyway, the way we were doing it, so she said she would go work as a domestic so... And 01:11:00she, she's always claimed that she got picked to, to, to make the sacrifice, so-called sacrifice.

Anna Takada: Where, where in Chicago was this building?

Merry Oya: It's on the fif-- on the South Side. It's not there anymore. And, and as you probably know too, that, even, oh by then the war was over. By then, even though the war was over, and I tried to find housing, rent, rent an apartment, 'cause, 'cause this place we stayed at was not ideal for us, but then there we did meet discrimination. Because if we saw, if I saw a sign in a newspaper that there were apartments available, I would go, and it, of course it was always not 01:12:00available. So, and housing was acute, because of after the war... So anyways that's why my sist-- but then, we met, then we met a Japanese who actually, I guess he had come out earlier, and he actually bought a building, apartment building so... We were able to move into his building, which was old, but still, it was three rooms, and we were able to once again, you know become a family. But that, that was kind of a hardship, hardship too, because we'd be squeezed into three, three rooms, and it was a bedroom, a living room, and a kitchen.

Anna Takada: Whereabouts on the South Side was the second home that you found?

Merry Oya: The second home? Well, the first, the first home is, do you know where the, the BTC is here? It was the first BTC church on the corner of Dorchester and fifty, 55th Street. And, on back of that church was this building where they were renting the rooms.

Anna Takada: So that was the first?

Merry Oya: That was the first place. And then, this Japanese man who bought this apartment building, this was about a couple blocks... It was on 57th and Dorchester, I think it was.

Anna Takada: Before you had... I don't get to ask many people this, because a lot of folks that I speak to were a bit younger than you at the time.

Merry Oya: Mhmm.

Anna Takada: But do you remember, when you... when your mother had made the 01:14:00arrangements to come to Chicago, do you remember your... how you felt about that move? 'Cause, you know, Chicago is pretty far away...

Merry Oya: Well, well, first of all, I think it's because my mother wanted to get out of the camp. Secondly, since, since there was an opportunity, since a friend had you know, suggested it, because, because this friend told her that at least he could find an apartment at, so we could stay while we're either looking for a job, or an apartment. So she, with that, we came to Chicago. And, which well, I guess in reality we got the apartment. And, I think, what happened? And then, at, of course that at that point then, we had to look for, we wanted to look for a job, because... So at that time, you know they had this, which is the 01:15:00JAS...JAS... which was for... I think it was called... do you, do you remember?

Anna Takada: The Resettlers Committee?

Merry Oya: Yeah, Resettlers Committee were h-helping the Japanese find jobs and apartments. So, through them, we found, we, we found this apartment that was owned by this Japanese.

Anna Takada: And that was the, the second home you had lived in, in Chicago?

Merry Oya: Mm-hmm, mhmm, mhmm.

Anna Takada: Before you arrived, did you know anything about Chicago?

Merry Oya: No, we just knew it was a big city. (laughs)

Anna Takada: Was that scary at all, to think about?

Merry Oya: Well...

Anna Takada: Such a big move.

Merry Oya: Well, I, I don't think it scared us so much as I was, it, I was just wondering how I'm going to get around here, you know I, 'cause I didn't know any-- transportation, I don't know what it was, and not knowing the area at all. 01:16:00And, and I think one thing that my mother was comfortab-- comfortable with, was that, there was, and they, they were going to start this Buddhist church on this 57th and Dorchester. So, with that, she, she came. And then, we went to, we were, I went to the service committee and they, they told my mother that she, that they had lots of openings for... They wanted seamstresses, and since my mother could sew... So actually, my mother got, my mother had a job first, but, but I wanted to make sure my mother got settled before I started. So I, she, she got this sewing job and then after that--

Anna Takada: Where, where was that sewing job?

Merry Oya: Oh it was downtown, it was downtown. At that time, that area was like 01:17:00a sewing center, a fabric center, and they had, I know they had lots of shops there at one time. But, when I went to the Resettlers to find a job for myself, well, I, actually, I had a lot of jobs before I found a permanent... I, I would go to one place and it was temporary, and then I'd find another job, and I didn't like it. And besides, I didn't have any experience. So, but finally the, the... And, and they had a Caucasian fellow, I can't remember his name, that was helping the service committee. He, he said, "I have a good job for you now," and I said "Where?" And he referred me to a shop on Michigan Ave. It was a, one of 01:18:00these places, exclusive places where the women come out with the models, and all that kind of thing. So I, but I said to him, I said, "You know, I don't have any office experience." He said, "That's okay." He said, "That's okay." He said, "They want you." So I went and I got my first experience typing a little bit of shorthand. But, and, and I got a bird's eye view of what the rich, you know, how they, how they got about doing things. But anyway, but that was, it, it was kind of interesting, but it was a little boring. So then I had to find another job.

Anna Takada: And where--

Merry Oya: And it wasn't, it wasn't paying that well either.

Anna Takada: Where on Michigan, was that downtown?

Merry Oya: Yeah, it was on Michigan Ave. It was, it was near what it was, what 01:19:00it was, the Tribune Tower.

Anna Takada: And so how were, how were you and your mother getting around?

Merry Oya: Oh, street, street car. At that time it was street car, but I had to show my mother had to use a street car. So, before I could start working, I had to get her kind of settled and oriented. So, I used to get on the street car with her and show her where to get off, and get on. So when she, and then, when she got the job, she had to know where to go, so I did that for a little while. I went with her and I said, "This is where you're going to go work." And then, when it was time for her to leave, I would meet her so we can go home together. Well so we did that for not too long, but then one day, I said to my mother, "I 01:20:00think that you, I think you can do it yourself now." So she got to the, the street car, riding the street car was not difficult because all you had to do was, all she had to do was get on, and get off, and then walk a couple blocks. But then, she was a little confused about going home, even though I told her it's the same route, only going backwards. But I went to meet her and she saw me, and she said, she said in Japanese, it was such a relief to see me standing there. But, but...

Anna Takada: Do you think that was because just, to have a familiar face in an unfamiliar place?

Merry Oya: I think so, because she didn't complain about the work. She was more concerned about that. But then, after that, I found out about the IC. You know about the I--, is that the IC, that, that train travels south?

Anna Takada: I only know the L, or the--

Merry Oya: Oh it's not a, it's not an L, it's a, it's an electric train that goes down to, it's on the South Side, it goes to Gary.

Anna Takada: Oh okay.

Merry Oya: Well anyway, I found out that, that there's the IC station, which if, if you pay the fare, it goes directly downtown, which was, which was much quicker than riding the street car for an hour. So then I showed my mother how to ride that thing, so she could save time you know traveling so... But all during the time that my mother was in Chicago working, she worked in this clothing industries. So and she got, she got, because of her skills, she was able to get, go from one job to another, finding better jobs. And so s--, I 01:22:00think she was satisfied with the job she had. And then at the end, she did make friends, you know even with the Caucasian women. Although she told me most of the women were Japanese, they were Japanese. They want, the, the employer-- employee-- employers wanted Japanese women for their shops.

Anna Takada: Do you know why?

Merry Oya: Well maybe, maybe skilled for one thing, skill was one thing, I think. But my moth--, my mother said they became like a group. And maybe because they, they were qui--, I don't know if they were quiet, but they probably did not cause any problems.

Anna Takada: And you said she had kind of worked her way up? And this was like still in sewing industry?

Merry Oya: Mhmm. Mhmm. Well she got to the, I know this last job she had, she 01:23:00got to the point where she became like a, what they call a pattern maker. She makes the models for the other women to follow the, the clothes that they were sewing. So, so she, she didn't have to do the same thing all the time, because she was doing making, sewing these different models for the other women to sew.

Anna Takada: What, what was the timeline for that? How much time had passed from the start of when you were in Chicago, to when she was making patterns? How much time do you think?

Merry Oya: Mhmm, Yeah. Well she was, 'cause she worked a long time. I think she was... forty, 30 years, 40 years?

Anna Takada: Oh, wow, so we're talking like--

Merry Oya: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah she worked until she was 70, I think. She retired at 70.

Anna Takada: And as far as your siblings, when you had first arrived. Were, 01:24:00well, let's see. Would your, would they have both been in school still?

Merry Oya: No.

Anna Takada: Your sister and brother?

Merry Oya: What happened was my sister, she went to business school. This is while she was still working at, part ti-- I mean at the, as a domestic. She went to business school, finished that, and she got an offi--, then she got an office job.

Anna Takada: Where did she go to business school?

Merry Oya: I can't remember. It, it could have been Bryant & Stratton.

Anna Takada: But it was in the city?

Merry Oya: Uh-huh.

Anna Takada: Does that mean, did she graduate high school in camp, while you were in camp?

Merry Oya: She, she graduated in, in, in Minidoka.

Anna Takada: Okay.

Merry Oya: Soon, so soon as my sis--, my sister graduated, then that's when we left. She didn't, she didn't gradu-- Oh, did she graduate from Tule Lake? Well, I can't remember now whether she graduated from Tule Lake or--

Anna Takada: But it was in, it was in camp?

Merry Oya: Because she was a year after me.

Anna Takada: Oh, I see. And how about your, your younger brother?

Merry Oya: Oh, my, my brother went to, continued school here and he was attending at that, Hyde Park High School.

Anna Takada: Okay. So he, he was in high school by the time you came to Chicago.

Merry Oya: Mhmm. Yeah.

Anna Takada: And, and, I'm sorry, what are your siblings' names?

Merry Oya: My sister, her name is Ruth. She's passed, she passed away last year.

Anna Takada: Oh, I'm sorry.

Merry Oya: And my, I have a sister named-- brother named George.

Anna Takada: And so just to, to get a better idea of your, those early days when 01:26:00you had first arrived in Chicago, so your sister took up work, domestic work. Do you know where the family she was--

Merry Oya: Oh, I don't know.

Anna Takada: But she, that means that she was living there, right?

Merry Oya: Yeah, right, yeah with the family uh-huh.

Anna Takada: Did she come home on weekends or--

Merry Oya: Mm-hmm.

Anna Takada: You still got to see her. And George had enrolled at Hyde Park. And you mentioned that you all were going to what was then Chicago Buddhist Church?

Merry Oya: No, just my mother and my brother, and, and, because in the meantime, my sister, she, she, she moved to Seattle b-because she was going with a fellow. 01:27:00He was in the, this was, he was still in the service at the time, but he came to Chicago and they resumed their friendship. So then she decided she's going to go to, back to Seattle, and then eventually they got married. So my sister settled in Seattle. So she didn't, after she got here, she didn't stay too long in Chicago.

Anna Takada: How long do you think she was here before moving?

Merry Oya: Maybe about two, let's see, two, maybe about two years. I know it wasn't too long.

Anna Takada: A shorter time. And, do you know how long you were, you were in that, the second building at 57th and Dorchester?

Merry Oya: Oh, we were in there a long time. I can't, I can't... As I said, if, if I knew you were going to ask me these, I would've, I would've brought my... Let's see.

Anna Takada: 10 years or--

Merry Oya: Yeah, maybe, maybe. Because from the 57th Street, then we moved up north. And I know at that time my sister was not with me, with us, so...

Anna Takada: And, 57th and Dorchester at that time, can you describe what that, that neighborhood or that area was like?

Merry Oya: Well, that's the University of Chicago neighborhood. And it was, I 01:29:00mean, I thought it was pleasant. It, nothing really exciting happened except that I, I know that there were, it's not only the area, but there were a lot of things to see and do out there because the museum was there and--

Anna Takada: Which, which museum?

Merry Oya: The Museum of Science and Industry. It was within walking distance of where we were living. And we had, the University of Chicago used to have different kinds of activities, and we would go there. And then there'd be bookshops. There were a lot of bookshops in that area too. It was, it was kind of an interesting place. And then it was close to Hyde Park, which was, which was within walking distance for us. And that was, just walking around the 01:30:00neighborhood was enjoyable. So, so actually I enjoyed living on the South Side.

Anna Takada: Were there, so I know at the time there were a number of Japanese American families in that area.

Merry Oya: Well, in fact, in fact, a lot of, many other Japanese Americans were living farther north, which was around the 45th. I think they were on 45th, 47th Street area. And in fact, I, somebody told me predominantly the Japanese were in that area.

Anna Takada: Did you know any, anyone coming to Chicago, any friends from camp or school?

Merry Oya: No, not... No, because I think most of the, most of the people I 01:31:00knew, they came out about the same time as I did. So, so I didn't, I didn't know anybody that came later than, than we did.

Anna Takada: Mhmm. But did you have, did you have friends that you had known prior to moving to Chicago?

Merry Oya: From camp?

Anna Takada: Yeah.

Merry Oya: No. Well, after, after I left camp, I lost, I lost touch with some of the people. And then the one that I was close to, we were still corresponding after we separated. But then along the way, somehow either they passed away or I lost track of them.

Anna Takada: Mhmm. And, do you, so you mentioned where kind of Japanese were 01:32:00settling from camp in Chicago.

Merry Oya: Mhmm.

Anna Takada: Do you remember any Japanese owned businesses or--

Merry Oya: Well, on the South Side there was a, there was a Japanese market. And, I can't, I can't remember all the, the South Side, but on the North Side there were more Japanese stores and markets and shops for other things.

Anna Takada: Do you, would you happen to remember the names of any of those?

Merry Oya: The South Side ones?

Anna Takada: Either ones.

Merry Oya: Of any place?

Anna Takada: Yeah. Or ones that you maybe went to for--

Merry Oya: Well, on the North Side, you know the Toguri stores were there. They 01:33:00were there. And then they had the Star Market, which was a very popular grocery s-- because they carried so many of the Japanese products. And I, and I remember there was a gift shop on, I can't remem-- but I don't rem-- I don't remember the name of the store. But I know close to Star Market, there was another market across the street too. And, and if you go farther north, there were several Japanese markets too. In, in fact, I think that we had quite a few Japanese food markets, which was convenient for people that wanted Japanese products. And, and then, there were a lot of beauty shops too opened up, opened up.

Anna Takada: On the North Side?

Merry Oya: Mm-hmm, on the North Side.

Anna Takada: And so, I, I know there was a big urban renewal project, and I think that was around the start of the '60s, because I think that's part of the reason why the Chicago Buddhist Church moved.

Merry Oya: Moved? Moved from south to the north, you mean?

Anna Takada: So, would you have moved? Do you remember that at all or--

Merry Oya: No.

Anna Takada: Okay. So I, I wonder if maybe you moved to the North Side before all of that. Where, where on the North Side did you move to?

Merry Oya: We moved to, close to Wrigley Field. Well, I, I think, I think by then many of the Japanese families who were living, living on the South Side in 01:35:00the 43rd area, they, I think most of them had moved out of that area.

Anna Takada: Do you know why?

Merry Oya: Well, it could be partially because, I'm just guessing that the blacks just started moving in there, that area, but also I think the Japanese wanted to, wanted to move farther north rather than going farther south.

Anna Takada: Was that beca--because there was more things going on up north as opposed to down south or, or closer to the, the heart of the city, or--

Merry Oya: Well, I think it's partly because more Japanese stores, you know shops were being opened up on the North Side.

Anna Takada: And--

Merry Oya: If you wanted to go to a restaurant, they were on the North Side. And as I said, all those grocery stores that opened up. And, and, of course, Toguri's was the big store on the North Side.

Anna Takada: Can you describe what Toguri's was like in, in those earlier days?

Merry Oya: Well, it was a general merchandise place and, and they sold Japanese items, you know, dishware, books, kimonos. I think if you wanted to find anything, a Japanese product, you, you went, you first went to Toguri's to see if they had it. And if they didn't, I think they would make arrangements to order them for you.

Anna Takada: And where was it located?

Merry Oya: At Belmont and Clark Street.

Anna Takada: How, how big was the store itself?

Merry Oya: Oh, you've never been there?

Anna Takada: I didn't, I didn't realize that that was the same space.

Merry Oya: Oh it was a huge, it was a huge place and 'cause they had a upstairs too. Well, you know they recently sold that building. Mhmm.

Anna Takada: So there, it was a two story then, it had two floors.

Merry Oya: I think so. Yeah mhmm.

Anna Takada: So we have just a few minutes left, but--

Merry Oya: Oh, they also had that reputation of the Iva Toguri. Do you, you've heard about that one? Uh-huh.

Anna Takada: Mm-hmm. Can you tell me a little bit more about it?

Merry Oya: Toguri's, let's see, well she was a, she was in Japan. And I think she was condemned as a traitor because she was broadcasting for the Japanese 01:38:00during the war. And but then when she came here, and I think she had a trial, I think? I think she did spend some time in prison, but not long, but...

Anna Takada: Was that something that folks in Chicago really, everyone knew about it?

Merry Oya: Well, yeah, yeah. Everybody knew about it eventually because it came out in the papers, you know not, not only local papers and then also on the news, you know, radio news. And then also because Bill, Bill Kurtis, do you know the news, news reporter? He, I guess he took an interest in Iva's situation too so, because he helped, he helped her a lot.

Anna Takada: Just a, a couple of final questions. Well, first I guess, how long 01:39:00was you, how long were you and your family near Wrigleyville or Wrigley Field on the North Side?

Merry Oya: How long?

Anna Takada: Mm-hmm.

Merry Oya: Oh, long, a long time, pretty long I would say because that was our main home for a long time, maybe fift--, 15 years.

Anna Takada: Had the, during your time there, had the neighborhood changed at all?

Merry Oya: Oh, definitely. In fact, when we were, after we moved, I said we shouldn't have moved out of there because the real estate went up sky high. (laughs)

Anna Takada: Mhmm. Yeah even thinking about it today.

Merry Oya: Yeah, yeah well, even at that time, right, right after we moved out, we, we were, we saw all these people not only moving into the area but, because of the Cubs, the Wrigley Field, and you know so... But then, so we moved from that area into the Ravenswood area.

Anna Takada: And is that where you still live?

Merry Oya: Yeah, it's on, I'm still there. My mother passed away.

Anna Takada: So, if you were just describing... Well, actually first, have you ever, or had you ever considered moving back to the West Coast after you were in Chicago?

Merry Oya: Well, not really. Because, because I think mostly because my mother was still with me, and I have, I have, two nieces in Seattle yet. And I know one of them is always encouraging me to move to Seattle and she's telling me how nice it is and how nice, scenic it is and blah, blah, blah, blah. (laughs) And I, I actually, I, I would love to be either living out there, but I'm, I'm thinking you know since I'm at, I'm, I'm thinking I'm at that age, I don't be making too much, too drastic of a change. And I have friends here, and I still have one nephew that's here. So, that idea has kind of gone out of my mind now, 01:42:00but I, I did that one time think. I thought after my mother passed away, I might move out there. But, oh and another thing is I had two good friends at Seattle. They were former classmates of mine and they passed away. So, that was another reason. Although I would love to see my you know nieces there, but you know, the situation kind of changed.

Anna Takada: And are you, are you happy to be living in Chicago and--

Merry Oya: Well, I'm, I'm contented. I'm contented. I think I've had a pretty good, you know life. And I still have friends here and I, I still keep in touch with my old boss who I worked for, for many years.

Anna Takada: And, and which job was that?

Merry Oya: Oh, I worked at a law firm. And he's retired too, so... But he, he 01:43:00s-- he still sends me fruits at Christmas time, so he still, I know he still remembers me.

Anna Takada: And, when you think about the, the Japanese American community in Chicago kind of around those earlier resettlement days, how, how does that compare to what it kind of looks like today?

Merry Oya: How it was then and now?

Anna Takada: Yeah. What's changed?

Merry Oya: Oh, I, I think it's changed in the sense that... I, I think the, the, 01:44:00the climate of the public has changed I think. You know we have a lot of, currently we have a lot of riots and crime, especially in Chicago. And we have so much disturbance it just seems, and have a lot of unhappy people. And the, and it, and politics is still up and down, up and down. And I just think that things are not really that, going that well in Chicago.

Anna Takada: And how does that compare to, to what it was like when you first moved here?

Merry Oya: Well I think, I wouldn't, I wouldn't say it was quiet or anything, but I don't think it was so, obviously, well... Right now I think of Chicago as 01:45:00kind of crime, crime-ridden because of all the crimes that have been committed and all the, the distraction with the, with the police and the, the blacks. Just seems like we haven't been able to get along altogether as before. Yeah I think there's like, it's like, it's like there's just disturbance all the time in the city.

Anna Takada: And, to get a bit more specific, how do you think the, the Japanese American community has changed with time?

Merry Oya: Well I, I don't th--, I, I don't think there really is a Japanese American community now. Yeah it's not, it's not like before when there were a 01:46:00lot of Japanese here originally, because I think we, I see more of the younger people are, are integrating more into other nationalities and other activities. It's not, it's not all Japanese activities now. And so, so it seems there's more opportunity for integration among all the people, even though they may not be you know agreeing with each other. But I, I think the, the setup from the days when we were younger and the old days, the way these things are, it's so entirely different. I, I think, I think eventually the Japanese American 01:47:00community may not be here much longer as a community I mean. I think that, I think it's good that the younger people are you know integrating more into different, different areas and you know mixing, mixing it up, so to speak.

Anna Takada: One thing that I, I like to ask folks as we wrap up is if you could leave any kind of message or legacy just with future generations or, or children, if you have any, just leave a kind of message or legacy behind, what would you want that to be?

Merry Oya: Well, I think I, I would still like to see, remember that there were 01:48:00Japanese here and that the Japanese did great things not, not only for the city but for the country because, because the war you know that took the lives of so many of our people. And they, and they became heroes and they still were not acknowledged even for all efforts that they put in. But now they're lately been recognizing or acknowledging them more. But, but and then the fact that we went, they put us into camps this, all this evacuation, I think all that has to still be, that still has to be remembered as part of a history that people should know that those things happened, and if you don't talk about it or know about it. But I, I think those are, to me, are important things that are all part of Chicago and people should know that.

Anna Takada: And w-why do you think, why is that something that's important for people to know?

Merry Oya: Well, there are so many other things happening that I, I don't think, peopl-- especially people--, especially the, the, the younger crowd, don't seem to know-- Well, I, I think this younger crowd now, they're not so prejudiced either. So they, they may not think that this evacuation and all that war thing is all past now. So, you know they just want to think of the future. But I think those, those other things that, that the Japanese contributed or have gone through, they're a more important part of his--, they're part history of Chicago too, so...

Anna Takada: Mhmm. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to, to speak with me.

Merry Oya: Well--

Anna Takada: Are there, are there any, before we totally wrap up, are there any final thoughts or anything you'd like to add or anything that I might have missed in the conversation that you'd like to share?

Merry Oya: No, not really. Well, you know a lot of that, I'm sorry I couldn't help you more, but my memory isn't as good because, because it was such a long time ago when it happened. And, and as I said, I do, I do have things written at home that I don't want to forget.

Anna Takada: Mhmm. And you did a great job. Your memory is you know, far better than a lot of people so...

Merry Oya: Well, I don't know about that. But anyway--

Anna Takada: Thank you so much.

Merry Oya: I'm glad to help if that, if that did anything.