[NOTE: This transcript has not undergone a final proofreading and may contain
errors. It is being provided in draft form to enhance access to the video recording. As soon as possible, it will be replaced with a final, corrected transcript and will be synced to the video to provide clickable timecodes.]Anna Takada: 00:00:00 To start, can you just state your full name?
Brian Ozaki: 00:00:02 Brian Kenshi Ozaki.
AT: 00:00:05 And where and when were you born?
BO: 00:00:07 I was born in Chicago in 1973 in August. I was born at, uh Weiss
memorial in Uptown.AT: 00:00:15 Um, and I guess just start, um, can you talk a little bit about
your parents, their background, where they're from?BO: 00:00:34 My parents, uh, were not born in Chicago. My dad and his family
were from Seattle and my mom and her family are from southern California.AT: 00:00:48 Where in Southern California?
BO: 00:00:51 I want to say it was around Gardena, I think it was. That's pretty
much where her grandmother and grandfather lived, I want to say before the war and after the war, when they moved back. They were in Chicago for a period of time after the war, but then, uh, they ended up going back to Gardena area probably around '70, between '76 and '79 I think, cause they lived with us for a short period of time.AT: 00:01:26 And uh, you're Yonsei, right?
BO: 00:01:30 I am a Yonsei on my mom's side. I'm a Sansei on my dad's side.
AT: 00:01:38 Um, do you know anything about your families' arrivals to the U.S
on either side? If not, that's okay.BO: 00:01:50 Yeah. My, well, my mom's, um, they were here for a long time. Um,
they were Kibeis. I don't know exactly what year, I want to say it was-- It was the early teens, I think. Um, and they were Kibeis, so they went back to Japan, got schooled and then that's where my grandparents met and they got married and they came back. As for my dad, his side. I don't remember exactly when they came. Yeah.AT: 00:02:36 And um, so it would have been your dad's parents who came to the U.S?
BO: 00:02:45 Yes.
AT: 00:02:47 And, he was born in Seattle?
BO: 00:02:48 He was born in Seattle. He was the 11th of 11 children. Yeah.
AT: 00:02:55 And how about your mom?
BO: 00:02:55 My mom was the first of three. Um, her youngest sister was born in
camp and her younger brother was just a baby, I believe.AT: 00:03:12 And can you tell me about what you know of your parents'
upbringings and their experiences during the war?BO: 00:03:20 They had very different upbringings during the war. They were both,
both sides of my parents were poor. Um, you know, they didn't own businesses when they were growing up. They didn't--on my mom's side, they were farmers. On my dad's side, I remember, uh, we took the, we did the Minidoka pilgrimage in 2015 and so he showed me where he grew up and right where, Uwajimaya market is on Jackson and sixth. It's now the parking lot for Uwajimaya market. But it used to be like a shoyu factory with uh, boarding rooms above and my grandparents managed that boarding rooms. So, um, they just, they never had any money. And so everything they did, they just, I dunno. They just worked hard for and so, um--AT: 00:04:27 And when were your parents born?
BO: 00:04:30 My dad was born in '32. My mom was born in '38.
AT: 00:04:38 Um, and then with both families, uh, what happened when the war
broke out?BO: 00:04:51 My mom has, my mom looks at it very differently. So to her, there's
parts of her past that she doesn't remember and she doesn't know because she says that as long as she was with her mom, she was okay. But she had two parents. And her dad was separated from them right after the executive order, right before they were going to camps, they were separated. So he was sent to Santa Fe. Um, my mom and her mom and her brother, they were sent to Gila River, Crystal City and then find it finally ended up in Tule Lake. Um, and they didn't see, my mom didn't see her dad until after they were released from camp. Uh, but they had nowhere to go. So they were one of the last ones at camp. Um, my dad, he was very bitter about what happened. Um, you know, he had a lot of older siblings since he was the last of 11, but he, you know, they didn't have a lot of money. They were, you know, some of his siblings were sick. One of them spent the entire camp time in a sanatorium. Is that correct? Because she had TB the entire time, and one of his other brothers also had TB, but he bounced from-- he was a no-no boy, so he bounced around and he ended up at Tule Lake after being in a medical hospital or something. And then I don't know exactly how he felt leading up to the camp. I just know that in the camp he was very bitter about it.AT: 00:07:01 And he went to Minidoka?
BO: 00:07:08 Mmhmm. That was the only camp they were in.
AT: 00:07:12 Um, have either of your parents shared any stories or memories
about camp with you?BO: 00:07:27 Uh, willfully? No. Uh, my mom, her answer to everything is, I was
just too young or, you know, I was with my mom, so I was happy. My dad, you know, it took a lot, it took many years for me to get anything out of him. And, um, he finally was able to tell me little things here and there. He'd tell me stories about people and friends that he had and friends that, um, he had going through camp and stuff about his brothers and he would tell me about the hardships of camp, you know, uh, all the dust that would come into the barracks. Uh, and they had a--really big families and they, they had a barrack with I think, two families. But I mean, they were just, it was-- 11, 12, I mean 13 with the parents. Right. So, I mean it's, they had a lot of kids, a lot of people in that family.AT: 00:08:37 And they're sharing it with another family?
BO: 00:08:40 I believe so.
AT: 00:08:44 Um, so you've gotten a little tidbits it sounds like.
BO: 00:08:51 Yeah. And when we did the pilgrimage, you know, he was a lot older
in life when we did that, but he could remember a lot of that stuff. He was always really good about remembering his history better than some of the stuff that's happened more recently in his life. So he had, he had a lot to, to kind of reminisce about, you know, there's a lot more going on in his head that he was actually verbalizing. So--AT: 00:09:23 Can you tell me about what the process has been like for you,
learning about the camp experience and your families history?BO: 00:09:38 Um-
AT: 00:09:39 Did you, when you were growing up, did you know about the camps?
BO: 00:09:43 I didn't. Um, you know, I heard about the Japanese community. I
grew up with the Japanese community. Um, you know, and I heard about stuff in Chicago, but anything in camp I really didn't know about. Um, I heard about, my dad used to always brag about his older brother who was in the M.I.S (Military Intelligence Service) and he would always brag about him all the time and uh, about his involvement in the M.I.S (Military Intelligence Service) and I want to say he was in World War II, Korea and Vietnam. He was a, a, career serviceman and um, yeah, I don't know.AT: 00:10:39 What do you know about your, your family, your mom's family's and
your dad's family's experiences? In the camp?BO: 00:10:54 My mom--my dad talked about it more so I knew that they went to
Seabrook farms in New Jersey and he was there for only a couple of years. But when he would tell stories about his time in New Jersey, it just seemed as though he lived there for decades. And the friends that he made in that short amount of time, I want to say he was only there maybe two years. He may have been there only less than two years, but it's like the friends that he's made there, he would still talk to them probably up until about two, three years ago. So, I mean, they were like lasting friends to him and he would go out to New Jersey and have reunions with them. And then, you know, everybody started to slowly pass on, lose communication or weren't able to communicate anymore. So through my dad's side, I always kind of knew his travelings. Um, maybe not all the detail, but some of the fun detail, you know, like breaking into warehouses, just causing a lot of mischief, stuff like that out in New Jersey. And then coming back, coming to Chicago, um, to do work here.AT: 00:12:19 And um, do you know if his family got, were they a part of the like
early leave process or do you know how long they were in Minidoka?BO: 00:12:28 They left, I thought in August of, around August. So I think they
were one of the last ones to leave their camp. I think Minidoka closed around August.AT: 00:12:44 And so both of your mom and your dad's families went to Seabrook farms?
BO: 00:12:50 I don't remember a hundred percent about my mom's family. Yeah. Yeah.
AT: 00:12:56 Um, and was it from there that they came to Chicago?
BO: 00:13:04 Yeah.
AT: 00:13:07 Do you know anything about um those circumstances? Did they both
come with family?BO: 00:13:15 They came with everybody. I mean everybody in their immediate
family they came with. Yeah. And, um, they were here for awhile. They established businesses, uh, on my dad's side. Some of the brothers, um, had businesses or you know, they, they worked for other Japanese, uh, people and their businesses. My mom's side, you know, they owned, um, buildings, uh, like uh low income housing buildings for a little bit. I think the first day they worked for a factory and then they ended up working, uh, taking care of managing buildings and then they owned a couple after awhile.AT: 00:14:07 Um, where in the city?
AT: 00:14:10 My mom was, uh, when she first came here, she was on the south
side. And, um, and that's how she became affiliated with BTC (Buddhist Temple of Chicago) because they were on the Southside. My dad was on the Northside, um, and he was part of the, the Northside clubs or gangs or whatever. And uh, so they were, they were rooted around Clark Division.AT: 00:14:39 How did your parents, how and when did your parents meet?
BO: 00:14:45 You know, I don't know. Um, I don't know.
AT: 00:14:58 Do you know when they married? Did they marry?
BO: 00:15:00 They did. And I know it sounds terrible, but I really don't even
know their anniversary. I know they've been married, they were married almost 60 years. Um, does that sound right? So they must've been married in the '50s. 50- I want to say it was in the early '50s. They were married.AT: 00:15:27 Had either, um, ever shared any like stories or memories of kind of
their first experiences in Chicago?BO: 00:15:40 You know, they used to talk about, um, going to dances a lot. They
used to talk about, um, they used to do a lot of picnics with a lot of other JA's (Japanese Americans) like in Grant Park. I mean that was like a big place where they all used to hang out. You know, they used to play ball and they used to, um, eat a lot. And it just seemed like a lot of the old pictures I've seen, they're always eating at the lake front. Um, they used to go fishing a lot. They loved fishing and they'd go into Wisconsin, fishing. They'd, you know, fish around, uh, the lake front. They, they spent a lot of times outdoors.AT: 00:16:29 And at that point, uh, let's see, did they get, do any schooling?
Um, in Chicago, that you know of?BO: 00:16:40 My dad went to Lane and the only thing he really tells us about
Lane was that at that time it was an all boys school and they swam naked. And that was like his big story. And I guess at one point they must have at one point, they must've, while he was at school, they must have made it coed cause he said the girls would try to look in on them while they were swimming. So that was like the big thing that I remember. My mom, not so much. She said she went to Waller (currently Lincoln Park High School). Um, and she, she went to Waller. She wasn't supposed to work because she was supposed to help out the family, but because, you know, they didn't have a lot of money, my mom wanted to work, so she lied on her application that she was of age to work. And so she started working, uh, just to help out the family and stuff.AT: 00:17:38 Do you remember what she was doing?
BO: 00:17:40 She worked for a law firm, um as a secretary. Um, and I believe
that was as far as she went as far as schooling was high school. And same with my dad until, I think it was after Korea. He decided to go back to school and he got his, he went to school for architecture at, uh, university of Illinois, Chicago.AT: 00:18:20 Um, and then do you have any siblings?
AT: 00:18:25 I have an older sister. She's four years older,
AT: 00:18:29 So that would have been '69?
BO: 00:18:32 She, my parents were not able to have kids, so that's why my sister
and I are kind of young in that spectrum of having a parent, um, who's a Nisei because, you know, normally they'd be around mid fifties, probably or sixties. But my parents weren't able to have kids, so after 10 years of trying, they went, and they were adopting a young girl from Japan and they had the paperwork signed and as soon as they were ready to finalize it, my mom found out she was pregnant with my sister. So, you know, um, yeah, that's why we were, we're so much younger. Everybody used to think that my parents were like my grandparents, you know, even going out to eat. They would think they were my grandparents cause they were just, they just visually looked older than us. My mom did because she always had white hair. My dad always had black hair and full of hair. So--AT: 00:19:45 And so, it's just the two of you?
BO: 00:19:46 Mmhm.
AT: 00:19:46 Um, and where was your family when you were born?
BO: 00:19:53 Uptown? Uh, we lived on Margate. Um, I remember, I have very little
memory of this place. Uh, my sister obviously being four years older, has a lot more. Um, I remember we lived in a, we lived over in the building that my grandparents owned that was over this bar. And at that time those bars were open 24/7. And in Uptown, it was just like, just homeless people and people drinking all the time. Passed out everywhere on the sidewalks. And that was my memory of Uptown. I remember running away at like three years old, going down a few blocks to the park and walking over, like people that were homeless, people that were drunk in the, in the sidewalks, just sleeping and stuff.AT: 00:20:48 Do you know which park that would have been?
BO: 00:20:50 I don't, uh, I remember the color of the playground equipment. I
remember the type of playground equipment that was there. I remember where I was hiding. But other than that, I don't remember what park that was.AT: 00:21:07 How long was your family there?
BO: 00:21:10 My family was there a long time. I left Uptown when I was three.
Um, you know, they, my parents were there for over 20 years, I would think; um, owning and managing several buildings around Uptown, Lincoln Park. So I would think, uh, I would think around 20 years maybe. I know my dad had enough after getting mugged several times and he was just like, I had enough of this life. So he's like, I just want to move somewhere else. So--AT: 00:21:51 And where did you go?
BO: 00:21:52 To Lincolnwood. Um, you know, back then, you know, you buy the
house, it was like $60,000 for post-war, a home, you know, kind of where all the homes sort of looked similar. And, uh, he had to work. I remember him moonlighting all the time. He never just worked one job. He always worked two or three jobs, um, in the architectural field, uh, for different architectural firms. Um, so my sister and I didn't have to live in Uptown anymore because my dad just really could not stand Uptown.AT: 00:22:34 And where, so you said you have some memories of Uptown. Does that
mean most of your memories are of this Lincolnwood area?BO: 00:22:43 It is, uh yeah. I mean, I remember going to, you know my doctor's
was in Uptown at the, at the big white bank building on Lawrence and Broadway. Um, and you know, my mom's church is in Uptown on, on Leland and Racine. So I mean, I remember always going to Uptown even after moving to Lincolnwood. It's like I spent a lot of time in Uptown because that's kind of like where my mom's roots were. And like her friends or her professional businesses that she would go to were, so I did spend a lot of time there. I just didn't live there.AT: 00:23:25 Oh. How would you describe Uptown in those days when you would
visit a lot? What was it like as a neighborhood? Was it still?--BO: 00:23:37 It was dirty. It was, um, you know, it--it--to me it didn't feel
like the parts that I was going to didn't really change until maybe the early two thousands. I mean, I'm sure it got, it was getting better in those times, but I didn't notice it, you know, cause I remember going to the revere, I remember going to the Aragon, I remember these places. Um, but it was, but that was much later in my life or, you know, when I was a later teen. But um, it was always kind of a place where my dad would always tell me, you know, don't go there by yourself. Stay with us. Don't walk around. Um, and so we didn't. The furthest that I would ever go would be like across the street. You know, when we were at BTC (Buddhist Temple of Chicago), there was a like a five and dime store right across the street. And you know, every time we were at Japanese school or Sunday school, we'd always run across the street and get candy and stuff for like a penny or whatever, 10 cents. Um, and that was my only wanderings of Uptown when I was around those areas because my dad was always like, don't walk around. So I said, okay.AT: 00:25:18 And how long were you all in Lincolnwood?
BO: 00:25:24 Since '76, 1976. My parents retired and they moved away and I
bought their house. So I bought their house and now my family's living there.AT: 00:25:41 Can you tell me about what it was like growing up in Lincolnwood?
BO: 00:25:47 It's pretty diverse. Diverse in a sense where, I saw many different
ethnicities. It was still predominantly Jewish, um, at that time. And I had a lot of Jewish friends. I went to a lot of Bar Mitvahs and Bat Mitzvahs and so much so that when I was 13, I thought I was going to have one. Um, but then realizing that I wasn't, and I had, um, I had a lot of Korean friends. I can only remember a small handful of Japanese families in Lincolnwood. I mean, maybe three or four outside of my family. Um.AT: 00:26:36 What school did you go to?
BO: 00:26:38 Lincoln Hall. Uh, Todd Hall, Rutledge Hall, and Lincoln Hall. Those
are the three, um, great schools on the campus in Lincolnwood.AT: 00:26:52 And, um, and then what about high school?
BO: 00:26:56 I went to Niles West. Very diverse, very segregated, in its'
diversity. Everybody kinda hung out with their own, with their own nationalities. And, uh, that's what I remember about it. Yeah.AT: 00:27:18 So Niles West, were you in the district or --
BO: 00:27:23 Yeah, yeah.
AT: 00:27:24 And that you would commute to school every day?
BO: 00:27:31 I would take the bus and then I would go with friends when they
were able to drive. So that's how I'd get to school. Yeah.AT: 00:27:42 And I want to ask you too about, um, you had mentioned that your
mom was a member of BTC (Buddhist Temple of Chicago), that you grew up going to Japanese school.BO: 00:27:51 Yeah.
AT: 00:27:51 Um, so can you tell me about that and maybe other ways that you
were kind of connected to Japanese heritage growing up?BO: 00:28:00 You know, I was, without knowing, I was actually, I was actually
exposed to a lot of Japanese culture. I just didn't know it, you know, my sister danced with Shiyu Kai For many, many years. And so my mom was very involved with the Uchimoto's who owned Shiyu Kai and she'd always volunteer doing stuff like backdrops and helping out. And I'd always go with them to see my sister practice and stuff. And my dad would always volunteer when they did shows. So I was always, always around when they were doing stuff. And so that was like a big part of the culture that I didn't know I was exposed to. Um, I did boy scouts at BTC (Buddhist Temple of Chicago). Uh, I went to Japanese school at BTC and I did Sunday school probably up until I was 13 at BTC (Buddhist Temple of Chicago). Uh, so I was around a lot of culture. I just, I think I was just so aloof to it. I just never knew it. I just thought it was just what I'm supposed to do. Right. Even though, 'cause I think about it now, I, I never think about this stuff, but as I'm thinking about it now, I had a lot of Korean friends at school, a lot of Jewish friends, just a lot of different friends of different ethnic backgrounds. But in the evenings or on the weekends, we always hung out with my parents' Japanese friends, and I never hung out with my school friends on the weekends when I was younger, it was always my family's friends. So it's like I grew up with families like the Imajis and Ideis and the, ah it's so many people, you know, the Okumuras and the Haritas. I just grew up with so many Japanese people of my friends of my, my parents, family and friends that I guess I was exposed to it. I just didn't know it.AT: 00:30:23 Do you speak Japanese at home?
BO: 00:30:25 I don't. I'm so bad.
AT: 00:30:27 When you were growing up, though?
BO: 00:30:28 Nope. My mom can speak it fluently. My dad, it was like, it was
real urban Japanese. I mean it was, it was terrible. So-AT: 00:30:50 So, um, and did you spend time with your grandparents at all, were
they ever in Chicago?BO: 00:31:00 My, my dad's side, I didn't know at all. I think, you know, my
grandfather on my dad's side passed away way before I was born and my dad's mom, she passed away in Chicago, I think because I always remember my dad talking about. Yeah, she passed away in Chicago, but it was before I was born because it was right before I was born because my dad would always talk about how his older brother who was, who was a career military serviceman, he was escorted here by the military. Like all these black vehicles came and let him out of the car, like they opened the door for him and he attended the funeral. So we never knew what my uncle did in the military, but he was somebody, um, after MIS (Military Intelligence Service), we don't know what he did, but, but as for my grandparents, I don't, I know they lived in our house in Lincolnwood. I just don't remember them living there because we had, we had space for them. We had areas designed for them, but I don't remember them living there. And I just remember always spending all my summers in California uh, at my grandparents house all summer long.AT: 00:32:27 Your mom's parents?
BO: 00:32:28 Yeah.
AT: 00:32:29 And you said they moved back in '76?
BO: 00:32:31 Somewhere around there, yeah. So I always remember that was where I
spent my summers. I knew I was going to California and spending my summers there.AT: 00:32:44 You haven't talked to them about World War II experiences?
BO: 00:32:50 I didn't know that stuff back then. My grandparents both died
before I had an interest in what happened. My grandfather was a certain way. He was quiet, but he was very hard. He wa-- It was rare when I would remember him smiling and laughing and I've seen pictures of him doing that. But he was very hard and he was very quiet. So my mom said he was like that but doesn't remember if it was because of his experience in camp or not.AT: 00:33:36 What about your grandma?
BO: 00:33:41 She's like my mom, she just marches on. Just whatever happens,
happens and you just move forward. This, that's just how I remember my grandma. She was just, she was-- she would laugh a lot. She would, I couldn't really understand her. She spoke broken English and I, it was just very difficult for me to understand her, but, you know, I was, I'd sit there and I'd like laugh and smile at her when she would like talk to me cause I was, I mean, I didn't know really how to communicate with her. Um, but yeah, that's all I remember.AT: 00:34:22 Do you know, um, was there a moment or an experience that exposed
you to, um, the World War II experiences in Japanese American and your family?BO: 00:34:36 Yeah, it was, it was after high school and I don't know what that
turning point was or where the trigger was because I was never very studious and I was never, never into education. And so I don't remember this in grade school or in high school, but there was some point in my late teens where it triggered. So, and that's when I started asking my parents, you know.AT: 00:35:13 Just from, uh, some type of feeling or inclination too?
BO: 00:35:21 There was something that I was exposed to that made me think about
it. And then I would, I was talking to my parents about it and seeing what they knew about it and then I would do a lot of my own research on it. Uh, I wasn't getting much out of them.AT: 00:35:37 Well, do you remember about like how did they respond?
BO: 00:35:41 They didn't tell me right away and it wasn't until they saw that I
was being proactive in my research that they would share bits and pieces about it. Yeah.AT: 00:35:58 Did you ever talk about it with your sister or friends?
BO: 00:36:03 None of my friends could relate or understood or cared. My sister,
I don't talk about it with her. She just doesn't share that same interest. So she went on the pilgrimage with us and I think a lot of that stuff may have been a very first time for her, for a lot of things. But to be honest, yeah, it's kind of sad. My sister and I are, our relationship is very superficial. So it's, we're not very deep. We just are very on the surface with each other.AT: 00:36:41 And what did, when you were like researching, um, were you just
like going to the library or how, what was that like?BO: 00:36:52 It was the internet. I was trying to find as much information on
the incarceration and where this happened and why did it happen-- You know, it like, it was, I was so aloof by it, like I didn't even correlate the bombing of Pearl Harbor to the incarceration of the Japanese Americans. So it wasn't real late in my, I dunno in my educated years that I just started really piecing things together and then how it was related to my family and it wasn't like my grandparents, it was my parents. And then I start talking to some people and realizing that some of the people that I knew, it was their grandparents that were in there, not their families. So I was like, well, what's going on? Why is, why are my parents there? And their parents weren't there. And so, and you know, it just brought up a lot of other kinds of discussions with my family on why this was like that.AT: 00:38:02 If you remember, um, do you remember um some of your own like
personal reactions or feelings as you're kind of digging into this history?BO: 00:38:16 Shock? I think shock was most of it. Some of it was like, I can't
believe that my family was part of this history. Um, kind of like honor, I would say in a sense because they were part of this history but also part of this history that changed the world a little bit or changed our country a little bit. Um, so I had, I felt like I had a lot more personal investment in what happened, which I think maybe drove me a little bit more because it did happen to my immediate family. Um, so I felt as though I need to learn more about this cause I don't know any of it, you know, it wasn't something that my parents talked about. I mean, both of my parents, I really had to pry for any information for anything, you know, any, anything about my dad's experience in the war or anything about their experience in camp, anything I really had to just dig. They, they wouldn't offer that information on their own accord.AT: 00:39:47 It would be great if you could fill me in on this point you're
talking about now, you know, the kind of the digging in the research and asking, you know, asking your parents questions and kind of where you're at today.BO: 00:40:03 I think there's a lot of information out there and I feel like had
I have known a little of what I know today, back then, I would've been all over my grandparents. I think. I think there's a lot more in history and in my own personal family's history that I don't know about and I would have loved to have had that opportunity to dig further and maybe play the, play the sympathy or kid role to try to get my grandparents to talk a little bit more. Right. I mean, you know, I think it, it drives me to what is happening today and to learn more about what happened during World War II, to drive me what I'm doing today and to prevent something like that ever happening again.AT: 00:41:23 You might have just answered it but I might have prompted you with
a question, another question. Why, why is that something that would be important to you to get those answers from your grandparents? To, to really get as much information.BO: 00:41:48 I think there's a lot more to my mom's family than my dad's family.
I mean, I heard stories from my dad's family, I've heard stories of their time in camp and I've heard stories of what the living conditions were and the waiting times, going to the bathroom. And I, you know, I've heard those stories and those are very similar stories to what I've heard in my research and reading or you know, going to symposiums or, or anything. Right. It's kind of similar, but my mom's side is really interesting and I, I, it's something I want to know because you don't hear much about the DOJ (Department of Justice) camps. You don't hear much about the treatment, you don't hear about how they were treated. And that's where my grandfather was. And I have a couple of pictures of him in those, in that camp and he just looks just physically exhausted. Like he just looks like he's just beaten up, not physically, just emotionally and just beaten up. That's how he looks. And so I know there's so much more to that history that I would just love to know more about, you know, so I mean, I can only imagine what happened in there. You know, in my head, I equate camps like Santa Fe to be like Guantanamo, you know, so, and it's interesting. I, you know, I met with some people from Anchorage on the Minidoka Pilgrimage that passed through Santa Fe, that was like one of their stopping points before going to Minidoka and they had no idea that was going on. They said we didn't know any of that was there at Santa Fe. They only knew it as their passing stop before going to Minidoka. And, um, you know, I'd show them pictures and they were just, they recognize where the picture was taken. They just didn't know that stuff was there. So, yeah. I don't know if I answered your question.AT: 00:44:12 Um, you have two kids that are school-aged. As a parent, someone
who is connected by family to this history. What has, what's been important to you or what have you maybe done, um, to kind of teach your kids about it? If anything?BO: 00:44:51 Everything that I talk about, I talk in the open with them about
this, this period of our family's life. So, and I, you know, I've recently got involved with JACL (Japanese American Citizens League). I've gotten involved with other committees, with other organizations and so everything that I'm doing, I do it in the open where they're always exposed to it. You know, my wife is very educated. She's very much into, um, you know, diversity and inclusion. And so this is not something that we hide in our family. And so it's always out there. We go to a lot of, we go to a lot of, um, events. We go to a lot of fundraisers. We go to a lot of just things that revolve around this subject and other subjects. So it's what our interests are, are always in my kids' spotlight so they know what we're talking about. They know what we're thinking about, they know what we stand for as a family. They know what is right from wrong. And it is very important for my kids because as I watched them grow up to when I grew up, and I'm sure from when my parents grew up, things are extremely different in that short amount of time and their priorities are a lot different and their thought processes are a lot different.BO: 00:46:37 It's not something that I feel as though I can teach them. It's
something that they have to learn by exposure. And so we feel as the more exposure we provide them, the more that they will understand and they're going to have these memories later. Oh, I remember doing this with my parents. I remember doing this with my parents, and hopefully that sticks with them so they understand and they become more socially aware. Um, I know in a lot of different aspects, my son is socially aware and he's always been a fighter for the, for the person who's being picked on. He's always been that way and it's gotten into, gotten him into some trouble sometimes. But he does have that in him. He just has to know the battles that he needs to pick, and he's very good at it. Um, my daughter's really young. She, she's just recently, probably in the last few years, figured out she was Japanese, you know, I mean it's, she either thinks she's Korean or Chinese or she thinks she's Pakistani or she thinks that she's Japanese. So, you know, we try to just enrich her with so much more culture.AT: 00:48:07 Do you feel like there was a moment or experience where you
realized that you were Japanese, kind of similar to what your daughter is experiencing?BO: 00:48:19 You know, growing up in Lincolnwood, for the majority of my life I
can see where my daughter comes from. You know, she just has a lot of friends of different cultures, different races, different cultures, different religious backgrounds. So, and she doesn't discriminate. She will be friends with anybody, you know, as long as they're friendly with her. Um, I didn't, maybe I didn't realize the importance of my Japanese background 'till much later where I embraced it more. I didn't grow up with a lot of Japanese people, you know, in a day to day environment at school. So I really didn't know. Right? And I think about these days of, you know, people making slanty eyed, you know, notions or go back to China. You know, it's, I remember growing up with stuff like that, but I grew up shrugging it off. I grew up playing it off and being funny with, you know, even joking around with it with my friends is, and you know, partaking in it, you know, and I know for like, my son won't take that, he won't take that. He, he'll speak up about that if like even his friends are doing it about him. Our daughter, I don't even know if she would know what that is. To be perfectly honest. I think she's so innocent. She just, she truly doesn't know it. You know, my kids, they know Japanese food, they know the Japanese things that I surround them with. Um, but you know, I probably didn't realize my importance of being Japanese until I was in my mid twenties, maybe.AT: 00:50:24 You had mentioned something about kendo--
BO: 00:50:28 Yeah.
AT: 00:50:29 Can you tell me about that?
BO: 00:50:31 You know, my sister always had Shiyu Kai growing up, so she learned
traditional Japanese dance. Um, and I really didn't have that, you know, things that I was interested, you know, it's like when I was a kid, I loved ninjas and I have loved, you know, Samurai Sundays and you know, just the stuff that I grew up watching and being around. But, you know, I loved watching chambara movies with my dad, which was like old samurai movies. But kendo was something that-- I didn't even know iaido exists, but kendo I knew of, but I just never took it because it was expensive. Um, but kendo, I took on later in my life because it has such a deep, strong connection with the Japanese culture and there's so much in kendo that it provides for me outside of kendo. And it helps me understand my Japanese culture and it helps me appreciate and why I may do things or why may others may do things. Because kendo is, is, it's really deep into the Japanese culture. And I was lucky enough for the dojo that I belong to is the first kendo dojo in Chicago. And it was based out of a BTC (Buddhist Temple of Chicago). And you know, it was Izui Sensei and he was really, he's, he's a very famous Sensei, but he's, he's passed on.BO: 00:52:38 But he believed in teaching the etiquette and the culture of kendo
rather than the, uh, the tournament style of kendo. And that's something that to this day, the kendo-- that dojo has been around since '69. And so to this day, it's that etiquette is still being taught and I really appreciate that. When I bring that etiquette to other people that belong to other dojos, they just brush me off or say, don't do that, I don't like that because it's, it's either embarrassing or it's maybe too old school, but that, that old school is my culture. That's, that's my heritage. That's, that's, that's what I belong to. I mean, that's my family way back then, you know? So that's why, it was one of the reasons why I decided to join kendo was you know, it brought me to a lot of deep cultural roots to, to who I am.AT: 00:53:51 What are some of your hopes for your kids? And the eventual
grandkids, future generations--BO: 00:54:03 Respect. Respect is very important to me. Uh, it's important that
they understand respect. It's important that they understand what our family or our family roots are from and who they were and their struggles. It's important that they understand that not everything has to be now. It can be later. Yeah. You know, I think it's important that they just know their family history.AT: 00:54:56 Why?
BO: 00:54:56 You said why? I think it's who they are, they just don't know it.
And I think it's important to know why things are, whether it's, you know, why a car runs or why your arm moves in a certain motion, you know, it's important to know why they are the way that they are. Um, and sometimes other things are more important than what you see every day. I don't know. You know, it's about the family sacrifices about what it means to just persevere and move forward. Like this entire time I'm thinking about my, my dad's dad, you know, they were poor and you know, for all these families that had persevered through this, through being incarcerated and moving forward and establishing themselves in a brand new area or a brand new line of work or whatever it is, it's about perseverance. You know, my dad's family didn't have any money. My dad used, my grandfather used to have this car, this Ford where you would have to crank the car in the front to start it up. One day he was starting it up and sometimes when it starts up, the crank goes the opposite direction, well it broke his hand. And my dad was, uh, my grandfather was a physical worker, phys-- physical labor, and he couldn't be without work. He had to supp- help support his family, but it was also a different way of thinking, right? So he's like, I don't have money. I can't get this fixed. So he decided to just cut his hand off.BO: 00:56:53 That was his way of fixing the problem and taking care of it and
getting back to work. And that's the perseverance. That's the sacrifice you make for the, for what you have to do. And I, and that's what we try to tell our kids. You know, it's not about what's right in front of you. It's, you've got to look at a much bigger picture. You can't just figure out what's, you know, five inches in front of your face. You have to just look much larger than that. And that's what happened to my family. That's what's happening to our family now. Um, so it's very important. You know what I mean by that is, you know, my family is Muslim. So I have a lot of deep roots in the past. And with the current political climate, you know, the past makes me fear for the future and I have a personal stake in that. So, you know that makes me all the more want to push further and have my kids understand what's happening and they need to understand where this can put them. And so this is why they need to be aware, you know? Yeah. It's just very important about-- for them to know and understand our history so it doesn't affect, you know, their future.AT: 00:58:42 Um, that's hard to follow [Both chuckle]. But, um, I, I am thinking
of just a couple of questions that I wanted to--we should ask you, um-- So I still have to find the right words to say. Um, but one thing I wanted to ask was, um, about your experiences growing up. Um, I would say being connected to the Japanese American community in Chicago. Um, and I want to ask you, in what ways do you see the Japanese American community, community in Chicago as maybe being unique from other places or other Japanese Americans?BO: 00:59:58 Personally, I feel like it doesn't exist anymore in comparison to
the fifties. It, they're not all clumped together anymore. They're so spread out, you know, and you know, that's, that's, that was part of my inexperience. And part of my way of thinking was once I stopped hanging out with my parents' friends, because, you know, they were getting up in age and people started moving out further away from where we all were. That, where did all the Japanese community go? Where are they? They're still there. They're just more spread out now. You know, I, the only thing I can really compare it to is California, you know, going, uh, Gardena every year. I mean, it's nothing but Japanese people, back then, I mean the whole Gardena area was Japanese stores and Japanese restaurants. Now it's changed a lot today, but I mean those are Japanese communities, you know, and they were not only, you know, second or third generations, some of them are first, a lot of them are first generations too. So here that community is so spread out, you know. They're parts of Chicago, parts of the northwes sur--, suburbs, part of the southwest suburbs.BO: 01:01:42 And I think that's why I've, I've become more involved so I can be
more around that community, you know, because they're not readily at my disposal. Um, it's not, you know, when you go to, you know, you hang out, people from like Tri-C (Christ Church of Chicago) or, or you know, from BTC (Buddhist Temple of Chicago) or anybody else who's affiliated, you don't-- you have that community. And I think I missed that because I find out from talking to so many people that have connected to so many people that I never knew. And I think now I, I'm really cherishing that. I'm really appreciating that and I wish the, the JA (Japanese American) community was more condensed in the sense where it is easily available for so much of the JA community instead of making the efforts to make a JA community. I don't know if that makes sense.AT: 01:02:50 So if you were to summarize maybe your, your hopes for the future,
the Japanese American community of Chicago?BO: 01:03:00 Well, it's not so much of a JA community in the future. There's,
it's JA slash other right? I mean, my kids are a part of that, you know, but my kids, I think like my kids, I don't know about others, but like my kids, they associate themselves more Japanese than their American Pakistani side. So I hope they learn to embrace their culture and their American Japanese culture and create friendships and bonds with others that hopefully lasts throughout the years and follows them wherever they go. You know? And hopefully wherever they go, they seek out other JA (Japanese American) communities and they find comfort and home in those communities.AT: 01:04:12 Um, oh, so I want to ask you a question. Um, but I apologize 'cause
I- I don't know very much about your family.BO: 01:04:21 Sure.
AT: 01:04:24 I don't mean it to be such a superficial question, but I'm just,
I'm curious because one of the biggest and main connections that people have made between the history of the World War II incarceration and contemporary issues are around anti-Muslim, anti-Arab sentiments.BO: 01:04:46 Sure.
AT: 01:04:47 Um, and I'm just wondering about, um, you know, given the, the
identities within your family, do you think how, how has that maybe had an impact on your own, like your own work, whether it's volunteer or whatever, or what are your hopes for--BO: 01:05:20 I think it drives me more. I think it drives me to unify more. I
think it, it makes me get off the couch. It makes me do things that historically in my characteristic or my habits that I would not do. So it really drives me, I think. Yeah.AT: 01:06:14 Before we wrap up, uh, is there anything else that you'd like to
add or that I might've missed?BO: 01:06:32 I don't want to pass up any opportunities that may be presented to
me. My natural instinct is always just to be the listener and be silent and to observe. That's, that's who my personality is. But I think with a lot of people, what's happening in the current political times and what's spilled over into a lot of racial, religious hate, that I don't want to look back at this time and say, I should've done this. You know, I, what's important to me is that my family knows that whatever could have been done was at least-- there was some effort. And I know my wife is very involved in many different ways and she would love to be involved more in many different ways and myself included. Um, and I want my kids to be aware. If they want to be involved, that's great, but I want them to be aware. And that's, that's one the most important things. And I think what has happened to my parents and their parents and their siblings and their family during World War II you know, I don't want that to happen to anybody else. Whether they're Muslim or not, doesn't matter. I don't want that to happen to anybody else. And I think whatever little effort, that I can give or offer or help or lend a hand in, I'l;--I'd like to at least say that I tried. And you know, I've put myself in that ring to try to protect my family and my wife's family and anybody else that needs a voice. Um--BO: 01:09:22 I don't know. I think, uh, I think I have big hope, big hopes and
dreams for my kids and my family and their families down the road to come. And I hope all these efforts and our efforts are not for nothing. And I just want them to appreciate who they are and where they came from and how they got here and what it took to get here, what it took to get to where they are, and hopefully that passes down from them to their kids and so forth. Yeah.AT: 01:10:15 Well, thank you so much again for coming in and taking the time to
speak with us.BO: 01:10:17 Oh, thank you.
