[NOTE: This transcript has not undergone a final proofreading and may contain
errors. It is being provided in draft form to enhance access to the video recording. As soon as possible, it will be replaced with a final, corrected transcript and will be synced to the video to provide clickable timecodes.]Anna Takada: 00:01 Now we could just start by stating your name and your, your hometown.
Mary Ozaki: 00:08 Mary Ozaki from Los Angeles, California.
AT: 00:14 And um, when were you born?
MO: 00:16 August 11th, 38'. 1938. So that makes me 79 now and about three or
four when we entered the camp.AT: 00:28 Do you remember any, anything about LA before?
MO: 00:32 No, my parents were farmers El Centro, California and um, which is,
uh, near San Diego I guess, but more east. AndAT: 00:48 What kind of farm did they have?
MO: 00:53 I really don't know. Grow lettuce, vegetables I guess. Yeah.
AT: 00:58 And when did they come to the U.S.?
MO: 01:02 Well, actually they're both born in America, my mother in LA and my
father in Seattle. And uh, at an early age were sent back to Japan or at least my father, he and his sister were sent to Japan for ah education. And my mother and his parents, my mother and her parents went back to Japan after they were here a few, a few years doing farming and uh, I guess they made enough money to go back to Japan. So, um, they got married in Japan and they came here to LA. So that's the beginning.AT: 01:53 And so when, when were they born?
MO: 01:56 Um, my father, 1909. And my mother in 1915, I believe.
AT: 02:04 And do you have any idea when their parents came to the U.S.?
MO: 02:12 Uh, no I don't have that.
AT: 02:18 Um, so when, when the war broke out from, well, where did your family
go from LA?MO: 02:28 From LA we went to Tule Lake. And then from there we went to ah Gila
River, Crystal City, uh I'm not sure in which order that is. And um, and we were in camp for a very long time. I think one of the last ones because my father didn't want to go back to California. So, um, we were told that for people who didn't have a place to go to uh, we can go to Seabrook Farm, New Jersey where they have work there and uh, they have housing. It looked like another camp area because of barrack type buildings. So I'm not sure how long we were there. Um, but, uh, my, both my parents walked over to the, uh, ah farm of the frozen food section everyday. I used to, I had, I came down with pneumonia, so I was in the hospital for 10 days and in the morning I would watch them go past the hospital to go to, uh, the work, to the factory. And uhAT: 03:55 That was in Seabrook Farm?
MO: 04:01 Seabrook Farm,
AT: 04:01 New Jersey
MO: 04:01 New Jersey. And we still didn't know what to do or where to go, but
after we found out that we had a cousin in Chicago, so we, uh, my father wrote to them and see if we can go there and they happen to have a huge apartment building and they said they would welcome us. So I believe it was 1949 that we came to Chicago and we lived in Chicago all these years.AT: 04:47 Do you have any siblings?
MO: 04:47 I have a brother, my brother is two years younger and my sister was
born in Chicago. She's 13 years younger than me, but she recently passed away. So my brother lives in Florida and I live in Midwest.AT: 05:07 Where, where was your brother born?
MO: 05:07 Uh he was born in El Centro, I was born in LA. He in El Centro or
Imperial Valley.AT: 05:18 And so where are your, of course, very young when your family was sent
to camp, what were your earliest memories ofMO: 05:33 I have a little bit of a memory in camp, but I don't know which one.
My mother was ah, she worked in the mess hall, so uh probably, we were with her most of the time because two of us were just too young to be out in the street. And uh, my father was never with us. He was sent to another camp. All men, all men camp in New Mexico, I believe. So he was not with us. I don't know why he wasn't there. I never found out. And uh, and I can't remember. He was with us in New Jersey, but during camp days, I don't think we, he was with us.AT: 06:29 Was he active in any churches or temples?
MO: 06:32 No, that's why it's puzzling to me because he was a quiet farmer, you
know, kept to himself. He wasn't an activist or agitator as far as I know.AT: 06:45 Because from what I understand and what I've heard from folks,
people's whose family's were um, I know someone who was even gave money to a, um dojo, like aikido, but they were, he was sent to Crystal City.MO: 07:09 I'm not aware. I don't know. It could be that he and he wanted to go
back to Japan maybe at one time, but he changed his mind, but I don't know why that would make him go there.AT: 07:26 And we where in Japan. Did your parents go? Where they
MO: 07:31 Kagoshima, they're both from Kagoshima.
AT: 07:43 And so as far as you know, you, you and your family. It was between
Tule Lake, Gila River and Crystal City?MO: 07:53 Yes.
AT: 07:54 So those three?
MO: 07:56 In Crystal City, we met other Japanese from Peru. There were a lot of
people from there. So we met some of them and I'm still in touch with some of the people there yeah.AT: 08:12 So do you have memories of Crystal City, of meeting people?
MO: 08:18 Not too much really. I don't know why I told remember.
AT: 08:26 Maybe just family friends you've kept in touch with since?
MO: 08:30 Yeah. But yeah, um, it's very vague and the rest is all what people
told me or. But I have no memory of my own what I was doing and at some point I did, I do remember playing with my brother. I mean we always were together. But other than that, and we must have gone to school. I don't even remember that.AT: 09:07 The. the things that you did learn about camp, how did that, how did
that work? Did your family talk about it or did youMO: 09:17 No, my parents never talked about it, so, um, they passed away a good
20, 25, 30 years ago. So I, I, at that time, I guess I wasn't really interested in it so I couldn't ask them anything. And so I did send in for the, uh, history, uh, of us, uh, you know, to the archives in Washington, DC. So, and I have no relatives or friends that can tell me what we did over there. But, uh, so I'm sorry, I don't have too much information.AT: 10:07 What, what inspired you to do some of that research and going to the archives?
MO: 10:13 Well, since I, my parents never told me anything, I was curious, you
know, what really happened and I was really surprised that we all went quietly without, you know, uh, without having any trouble with it just all went together.AT: 10:40 Well, about how old were you when you started?
MO: 10:43 I think, uh, over three. If the war started in 1942.
AT: 10:50 I mean, I'm sorry when you were, when you started researching, and
trying to figure outMO: 10:56 Oh! I would say 15, 20 years ago after my parents passed away.
AT: 11:11 So did you, forgive me, I'm just trying to get a better sense of, you
know, what it was like to have that happen at such a young age when you don't necessarily have the memories, I mean, you were, you were aware that you were in camp in your childhood?MO: 11:35 Well, I don't know if I was aware that I was in camp. All I know is
that I was with my mother and my brother, so, you know, wherever you go and you don't think anything of it.AT: 11:55 Like, if people asked you once, like when you left camp and let's say
you were in New Jersey and people asked where you were from or anything like that?MO: 12:12 People did ask, but not, not, not too much in detail. When we came to
Chicago at first, uh, I did notice a little bit of a prejudice, but of course I went to Oakland Wall Grammar School where there were a lot of Japanese children there. So we played together. But, uh, going outside of that, then you would feel the difference. And growing up as a teenager, um, there was a CNAA for ah teenagers getting involved in athletics. You know, so I played basketball. My brother also did that. And so we sorta, well, we stuck together and that's where I met my husband and got married.AT: 13:18 And so you must have been, you were 10 or 11 when you came to Chicago?
MO: 13:26 About nine or so, yeah nine.
AT: 13:31 Where did your family. Which neighborhood did your family?
MO: 13:35 On the South Side. We stayed on ah, that's where we, we stayed in that
apartment building until 1951 when my sister was born. So we moved to the North Side, where my parents bought a, uh, a roomy house type of building. So my mom says my mother had my sister, she couldn't go out to work. And so, uh, she, she ran this building and my father went out to work.AT: 14:12 Where was that building?
MO: 14:14 On Elm Street near Clark and Division.
AT: 14:22 As far as you know, um, was that, is that difficult for your parents
to buy a building or find a?MO: 14:32 No, they didn't have any money, but they, I guess they scraped enough
money to get, get into this venture. I guess they felt as since she cannot go out to work. In the summertime, my mom was able to work so that I could, you know, watch the house, I guess. I'm not so sure. Maybe before my sister came, she did both work at, uh, at Curtis Candy Company and uh, since um, my sister was born then they got into this roomy house type of business because she can't work anymore. So uhAT: 15:25 And what was your father doing?
MO: 15:25 He was working, um, Curtis Candy at first and then, uh, American
Carbon Paper Company for the longest time until he got sick and he could no longer work. So my father was not that healthy. So my mom, my mom coming to America, didn't know English. I thought it was kinda odd that she was totally dependent on my, uh, my father, she never went shopping. She just stayed home on the farm. And then coming to Chicago she learned a little English, well enough to run a rooming house. And uh, so she, I thought it was strange that she got stronger, strong, stronger as a person. So that's basically my life and nothing really exciting.AT: 16:32 What do you, what do you remember about the boarding house? Did you
spend a lot of time there?MO: 16:39 Yes, my teenage years. I spent my life there and um, I didn't do much.
I didn't help help her out or anything. She did everything, changing linens and cleaning the building and taking care of the tenants. So she did, she did all that and after that she got into a bigger building from there. So like I said, she's the one that was ah bold enough or had the gumption to get into a new venture like that. And my father just went out to work.AT: 17:23 Where was the new building?
MO: 17:25 Montrose, Montrose near Clarendon, Clarendon Road is it? It's near the
lake. And after that they bought a property on a Racine near a Diversey. And that's it.AT: 17:47 When you, when your family to, when you made that move to the North
Side, did you switch schools?MO: 17:55 Yes, I went to Hyde Park for just one semester or one year. And then,
uh, the rest of my time at Waller High School on the North Side.AT: 18:04 And what, what were those schools like?
MO: 18:13 Well, I was, um, I didn't participate in anything. I would just go to
work and come back. I mean, go to a school and just come back and I wasn't in any extracurricular activities where I would stay. So I just went to school, came back and when I was old enough to get a part time job, then I did go to to work.AT: 18:48 Where was your first part-time job?
MO: 18:50 A place called the Massachusetts Bonding, doing typing work.
AT: 18:59 How old were you?
MO: 19:01 I was still in high school then.
AT: 19:03 Was that pretty typical? For a high school student?
MO: 19:06 I don't know. I don't think I was supposed to be working, but I was
working. I won't go into detail about that.AT: 19:19 What about the schools in the areas you were in? Did you know other
Japanese American kids?MO: 19:24 Yeah. Well, our high school, there were a lot of Japanese there. So
basically I was with Japanese people. Even to this day I have many Japanese friends and uh, I guess I just stick with them maybe for comfort. I, I'm not sure.AT: 19:57 And was your family, I know you said you weren't involved in any
extracurriculars that um, did your family, were they involved in any um temples or churches or anything?MO: 20:07 No, but I did, go ever since I came to Chicago, I did go to a Buddhist
temple in Chicago, which was on the South Side because my friends went there. So that's the reason why I went. And to this day I'm a member on the same temple. So.AT: 20:32 And the, where, where did you go from from Waller High School?
MO: 20:43 Uh, I got married at the age of 21. My kids didn't come for 10 years.
And uh.AT: 20:52 Where were you living at that time?
MO: 20:59 When we first got married, I lived on Racine. My mother, my parents'
building, we help them manage the building. Uh, I would say for 10 years. And then, um, since I was pregnant with my daughter, uh, we moved to a different building. We bought a building on Margate Terrace, that's near Lawrence and ah Marine Drive. So we were there for a few years and then then we bought a house in Lincolnwood. My husband just didn't want to deal with tenants, so we moved to the suburb.AT: 21:45 And what year was that you left the city?
MO: 21:50 1970. Ah 72' because Brian was in the new house. No? 70'
Brian Ozaki: 22:03 76' or 77'.
MO: 22:12 76' or 77. But you,
BO: 22:14 I was three.
MO: 22:14 Yeah, you were three and Jennifer was in first grade or kindergarten?
Well, somewhere around there.AT: 22:26 Where did you meet your husband?
MO: 22:29 Where it was one of those, uh, CNAA dances, socials that we had.
That's where I first met him.AT: 22:38 And so did you go to those dances often?
MO: 22:43 Whenever I could, I did go.
AT: 22:49 Can you describe or explain with, what the dances were and then maybe describe.
MO: 22:55 It was usually held at the YWCA on Chicago Avenue I think. Or no, also
at Olivet Institute where we played basketball. So uh it was either there or. Other than that I guess, uh, I was in a all girl basketball club, Bellesharmeer,AT: 23:33 What was that?
MO: 23:33 Belle, Bellesharmeer. Um, there were many clubs but we were at the
tail end and after that I think they, uh, it was phased out. But uh, so other than that I wasn't really doing anything outside. Basically a homebody, I guess.AT: 23:55 Ballshawmeer?
MO: 24:07 B e l l e s h a r m e e r. I think.
AT: 24:10 So was that a club? A team?
MO: 24:11 Yes, basketball club.
AT: 24:13 Oh it was a basketball club.
MO: 24:13 Yeah.
AT: 24:14 So you did, you played basketball?
MO: 24:16 Yes.
AT: 24:20 And then what about the dances, um, who was invited and who was coming
to these?MO: 24:29 Well, all the members of the clubs, I don't think there was any
admission or anything and, and uh, records were, I mean the music is by records. I think I'm, I'm not quite sure.AT: 24:53 Well, how, can you explain a little bit more about what the clubs
were, how they formed? Was that just kind of a normal thing that people were affiliated or?MO: 25:07 I, I guess, uh, you, you choose your friends and you form a club
basically to play basketball. I think uh, the boys, they also played baseball. But I don't know too much about that, but basketball was the most popular sport. So that's it. I guess I wasn't really, I guess I was more a homebody, you know, not really going out and venturing out to meet other people more or less just stayed home.AT: 25:58 But you did meet your husband at one of those dances?
MO: 26:00 Yeah, but outside of that, CNAA. I didn't venture out to a high school
clubs or high school, um, events or anything that was happening in school. I didn't participate in that. Just everything during school hours.AT: 26:25 Do you remember the names of some of the other clubs?
MO: 26:31 Yeah. Ruins, Role Babes, Saints, Imadoerries, Colette's, Debonairs.
Oh, that there are many. And each club I, think had about at least half a dozen or dozen to a dozen or so. Like I said, we were at the tail end of it though. The other clubs are the people were much older. And uh so.AT: 27:06 How many were in your club?
MO: 27:10 Probably six. You have to have at least five, six or eight maybe.
AT: 27:20 Do you remember the names of the members?
MO: 27:27 Um not all of them, but a Tatsko Matsumoto model was one of them, uh,
in Bellesharmeer I can't, you know, I can't remember the rest, that's terrible.AT: 27:43 We won't tell anyone.
MO: 27:43 But I mean, I have other friends that were in the other clubs, you
know, but in my club, uh, I wasn't sure. I'm not sure of the names.AT: 28:03 And um, you, you mentioned that I'm coming to Chicago and Virginia out
of your circle is that were mostly Japanese American, but there was some prejudice. Um, can you tell me a little bit more about that?MO: 28:31 Well, I mean, they use the word Japs, you know, things like that. And
um, uh, I guess, uh, we heard, we heard that, uh, not, not many people would rent to Japanese or even hire you, but I think, uh, later on they realized that we were clean and work very hard and diligently and kept to ourselves. We don't make waves and have ah respect for other people. So people, uh, became to trust us more. So it was much easier about that, but you can still feel some, the uh, well, I guess I shouldn't say that, but it turned out for the best, I think it did. Something that was negative, became a positive, I think. And um, since I was so young, I didn't feel any, uh, suffering because you're with your family most of the time. And where would you go? Oh, you're with your family, ah good or bad. But, uh, so I'm pretty sure my parents suffered a lot because they were forced to do something that didn't want ah and also they had to let go of all their belongings, so I'm sure they really had a hard time, but I myself did not experience that hardship or suffering, and my parents didn't show it either.AT: 31:05 Um, do you, um, how do you keep in touch with your, your Japanese
heritage. If you do, um, what are some ways that you?MO: 31:32 I belong to the Buddhist temple, Buddhist temple of Chicago. And then
I go to, when I'm in Illinois, I go to, uh, uh, the, uh, most of the festivals that they have here. And um, even in Las Vegas I go to their festivals and uh, uh, sometimes, uh, the taiko group from Japan comes. And so I would see them perform and it.BO: 32:13 [inaudible]
MO: 32:13 Well, um, I do belong to a Buddhist temple in Chicago, like I said,
and then I also belong to the Osoko group of that temple or we are, or we used to be the backbone of that temple. So of course I'm not here every Sunday because I live in Wisconsin. So when I'm in town, I'm at the temple and whatever is going on, I do help out with whatever I can for the temple.AT: 33:06 Is that something that's important to you?
MO: 33:08 Yes, when I'm in Chicago I always make sure that I go to the temple on
Sunday. I try to make it my business to go there, yeah.AT: 33:19 And how about for your children?
MO: 33:24 Uh, Joe, I did, I did take them to the temple when they were young,
but uh, as they become, became older, well, I let them do whatever they wanted to do and they also want to Japanese language school at the temple had. So they went to that. And um, my daughter was also taking Japanese dancing with the shiyu kai. And so she was in that for several years. So I, I try to maintain the culture, but now it's very difficult. The children grow up and they had their own ideas. So I don't force my ideas on them. Whatever they want to do, it's, it's okay.AT: 34:26 And then, um, I think for many Japanese Americans the [historian?]
Experience of internment, of course, is very prevalent. Is that something that you talked about with your kids?MO: 34:41 No, not really, uh, I don't believe so. Of course, um, later on the
kids got interested in it, especially my son, then we would talk about it. But other than that, no.AT: 35:16 Do you feel like, do you feel like it's something that your, your kids
and grand kids should know or is it important?MO: 35:31 Well, uh, I think they should know and uh my grandchildren are
learning about it because the teacher does ah dwell on that subject. My husband and I went there and met with the class and we spoke about our experiences. In fact a teacher or ah video taped it and every year around October she would present it to the children and then every year after that, uh, she was sending me a thank you know, along with the remarks from the children. So that's very nice that she has an interest in this project. So, um, I hope most Americans will hear about this, something that happened to us. But, um, but I think it turned out for the best, at least I don't. I was too young to really know the impact of it. And I think, uh, now that a lot of people know about a Japanese American, that, that, uh, we are decent American like anybody else. So I'm happy the way it turned out.AT: 37:13 Now that you're older and more, you know, there's been a lot of time
since what happened, what do you, what do you see as being some of the impacts of that experience?MO: 37:30 What, say that again?
AT: 37:38 What, what are, what do you see as some of the impacts of internment
whether on you or your family orMO: 37:50 You know, like I said, I, there is no because I wasn't with my
parents, my mother. And wherever your mother takes you, you know, that's your, that's your life and you don't know anything else. Any other things, whether good or bad, you're with your, with your mother. So, um, I have no ill feelings myself. My education was not interrupted. My work was not interrupted. I was too young. But just thinking about my parents, what they went through, then I can understand, but of course didn't talk about it either. So I could just imagine what the adventure that's, that's about it.AT: 39:03 And if you could leave your children and grandchildren and generations
to come with some kind of message or, or legacy, what would you want that to be?MO: 39:21 Always be respectful, consid, considerate of others. Um, that's all I
would want from them. Be a law abiding citizen.AT: 39:41 Well, thank you so much for coming in and speaking
MO: 39:45 You're welcome. I don't think I had too many to offer here it.
AT: 39:51 Is there anything that you might want to add or that I might've missed
in the conversation?MO: 40:00 No, not really, uh, you know, in camp, they fed you, but, but, uh, I
can't even complain about that because I don't even really remember, but I guess it was edible. We survived it at all. Uh, I never remember complaining about the food. I do remember my mom bringing home ah leftover rice and I guess it was a, it was like, um, it was burnt so they would dry it and put teriyaki sauce on it and make it like a senbei or arare, but those little things. But I never, never thought about the food, how bad or how good or bad it was, I just. And I don't even remember the many lines that we had to stand and wait for her to go into the mess hall or even to the washrooms or a shower. But um, so that was my life and I just, I guess accepted it, you know, it was, it wasn't bad at all. I think I had a good life.AT: 41:23 Well, and some of those things you described, it seems like they might
have been learned later on.MO: 41:31 Yeah.
AT: 41:33 Do you remember your reactions to learning about some of the
conditions andMO: 41:40 Well um, just that, I'm very surprised that everybody went quietlly,
that's the only amazement that I have, you know, we didn't have a riot or we didn't. I don't think my maybe most people did oppose it, but I didn't experience it. So it was just ah, um just amazed that we all went quietly and of course we were given few only a few days to do that. So I'm surprised that we were all able to do that. Getting rid of our belongings and selling whatever you had. And so that's all I can add.AT: 42:34 Brian, is there anything you want to say, or ask?
BO: 42:41 At what point did they take grandpa? Was it at the very beginning?
MO: 42:46 What?
BO: 42:46 At what point did they take grandpa to Santa Fe? Was it at the very beginning?
MO: 42:46 You know, I, I'm not sure. Maybe we were there together at Tule Lake
and after that, uh, probably, uh, he left. I'm not quite sure when, when he left us. So.AT: 43:12 Was that something that you remember as a child?
MO: 43:15 No, I don't remember that.
AT: 43:26 Thank you so much again for coming in and speaking with me.
MO: 43:30 You're welcome.
