Ozaki, Rebecca (3/16/2023)

Mary Doi: Today is March 16th, 2023. This oral history is being recorded at the JACL Chicago office, located at 5415 North Clark Street in Chicago. The interviewers are Mary Doi and Katherine Nagasawa. The interviewee is Rebecca Ozaki. This interview is being recorded by the JASC Legacy Center in order to document the Japanese American Redress Movement in Chicago and the Midwest. This interview will differ from a normal conversation in that I will not use verbal cues and responses. Instead, I'll use facial expressions to communicate my interest in what you're saying, and we do this because it makes for a cleaner transcript. You can decline to answer any question without giving a reason. You can take breaks whenever you need them and you can end the interview at any point. Unders--

Rebecca Ozaki (Becky): Great.

Mary Doi: Okay, great.

Rebecca Ozaki (Becky): Sounds good.

Mary Doi: Please make sure your cell phone is silenced. And the way we're going 00:01:00to do this is Katherine Nagasawa is going to start out the interview and then I'll pick up in the last half of the interview questions.

Rebecca Ozaki (Becky): Okay.

Mary Doi: So, I'm handing it off to you, Kat.

Katherine Nagasawa: Awesome. Thanks, Mary. So we asked you about this when we talked last time, Becky, but I was wondering if you could talk about the role that your grandparents played in getting you involved in the Chicago Japanese American community and also just any of your favorite memories from those times.

Rebecca Ozaki (Becky): My grandparents and I were really close growing up. They lived like 10 minutes away from us and I spent a lot of time with them. They were both really involved in the Japanese American community. So I remember going to the Nikkei Picnic growing up, going to the JASC Holiday Delight. I even remember going to some community rallies with them for different events, I think? And they were both very involved in community, like I said. So, yeah, I 00:02:00learned a lot from them. I think that they were two people who really listened to me. I felt like as a child, very heard by them and they taught me a lot of things about community, about what it means to I guess show up for community and be in solidarity with other folks and just how to be a kind, decent person, I think. And I really yeah, appreciate that about them, I'll say.

Katherine Nagasawa: Are there any favorite memories from the Annual Nikkei Picnic or Holiday Delight that come to mind?

Rebecca Ozaki (Becky): Yeah, from the Annual Nikkei Picnic, I remember going there with my siblings and my family almost every year but we would play all those kids' games that they have at the picnic. I remember winning this Sailor 00:03:00Moon toy and I had it for years because it, it was just my favorite thing ever. I think it was from like the three-legged race that me and my brother won. And at the, let's see... at the JASC Holiday Delight, there was always the Japanese American Santa Claus, and we would do arts and crafts. I think I remember my grandma baking cookies for that event too. So yeah, those are just like special memories growing up where I felt very connected to them and to the Japanese American community.

Katherine Nagasawa: Mm-hmm. And I was wondering also when and how did you first learn about Japanese American incarceration? Do you remember how you felt about it at the time?

Rebecca Ozaki (Becky): I remember... You know I can't remember the very first time I learned about it because I feel like my grandfather just kind of always spoke to us about Japanese American incarceration. He was a Chicago public 00:04:00school teacher and principal, so he often took the opportunity to talk about it in larger spaces. I will say, I remember a Day of Remembrance event at DePaul right after 9/11 happened. And I remember my grandpa standing up, or you know speaking out at the end of it saying that us as a community or Japanese Americans need to stand in solidarity with Muslim, our Muslim and Sikh brothers and sisters, I remember him saying. And just the way my grandpa spoke, you know he really... It's like he was soft-spoken but could also command a room at the same time? And yeah, I'll just never forget him saying that. I don't really know what that meant to me at the time. I think I have these memories of him you know speaking in these moments when the community gathered. But I think throughout my 00:05:00life it has impacted the way that I feel I need to show up for my own community and for other communities. So that, you know, in the long-term, had a big impact on me.

Katherine Nagasawa: Mm-hmm. And sort of, to your point about your grandparents really listening to you, or I think you mentioned last time like you felt like you could ask them anything, it seems like it was maybe more of an ongoing conversation with them than one particular moment where they told you about what happened. But one thing you did say was that your parents said your grandparents didn't necessarily talk as openly about it until you and your siblings were born. Could you talk a bit more about that and do you feel like there was something about becoming grandparents that, that changed their openness to the conversation?

Rebecca Ozaki (Becky): I think in talking with my dad and my aunt and my uncle, they said that for them growing up, my grandparents, their parents, didn't talk 00:06:00to them about incarceration as much. They really learned things you know after my grandparents became more vocal about it after we were born. So, I mean for myself, I know being a mom definitely has changed me. So, I imagine them being grandparents changed them as well. And there was something, I think, there with them wanting to pass on their story and their legacy. I'll say my grandfather you know was more vocal about his time in the camps. He was in the 442 as well. My grandmother, if I asked her she would talk about it, but I think you know, there was a lot of... like everyone that went through this experience, a lot of trauma that happened to her. Her dad passed away in the camps just weeks before they closed. So, there was a lot. And she was a little bit younger than my grandfather. So there were things that, she didn't you know, openly tell us and 00:07:00it, and that was, it was kind of like peeling back layers over the years. But again, for my dad, my aunt, and my uncle, they didn't really learn things throughout. I remember... They just had like tidbits and pieces you know that I would ask them about after my grandparents passed away. For example, with redress, I asked my you know, uncle and aunt, did they talk to you about this as it was happening? Because I know that they had meetings in their living rooms or my grandfather you know, shared his testimony at the hearings. And my uncle said that they didn't really directly say what was happening to them at the time. It was moreso, my uncle remembers my grandfather practicing his speech like over and over again, which is kind of funny 'cause he changed the whole thing when he got to the hearing itself, but those are moments that they remember. So I think 00:08:00we had a really different experience, you know my dad's generation and me and my siblings, when it came to what was shared and how openly it was shared. So, I'm appreciative that we got to have that relationship and hear the things that we were able to.

Katherine Nagasawa: Mm-hmm. I was wondering if you could share the story from, I think it was third or fourth grade when you were studying Japanese American incarceration. Could you describe what happened and how, kind of how you felt about that?

Rebecca Ozaki (Becky): In third or fourth grade, we had, we finally had a series, or you know a paragraph in our history book about Japanese American incarceration. Even though it was a, not necessarily a moment for a kid to be excited, for me it was a moment because I felt you know, my grandparents have talked to me about this, this is my history. And I didn't realize it at the time 00:09:00but I did feel represented in that one paragraph that we had. So my teacher when we were having the discussion asked me you know, to share a little bit about what my grandparents' experience has been since they both were in the camps during World War II. And the terminology that my grandparents used was really different than what was in textbooks at the time. So you know my grandfather would say incarceration, he would also say concentration camp as he got older and became more firm in the fact that the government forced us into these camps. And it was called a concentration camp in the U.S. context. So I remember using that term, and I know it's a loaded term, concentration camps, especially you know if you're Jewish, Jewish American. But I do remember my teacher who may have actually been you know, Jewish and Jewish American, she corrected me at the 00:10:00time and she said like, "That is not the right term to use." Like that's not, kind of like that's not what happened to your family. And I was just really confused by it because I grew up, you know, hearing different things and then telling-- being told that I was like wrong for saying what I said about what happened to my family, I was just confused as a kid. And I think after that it really made me feel like invalidated and like maybe my, I said the wrong thing or like offended someone in my voice, what didn't matter at that time. And I know my teacher's intention was not to do that. She has a different history that as an adult I can reflect on and appreciate, but in that moment I did feel like I said the wrong thing, so I don't really want to share anymore with my classroom or my, my teachers. Yeah.

Katherine Nagasawa: Mm-hmm. Do you remember if you ever talked to your parents or grandparents about that terminology or the experience in class?

Rebecca Ozaki (Becky): I don't think I did actually. I think I just honestly have kept it with me for many years and kind of reflected back on that. I don't remember bringing it up to them afterwards. I think it took me a little while to like understand what happened. And I was pretty self-reflective and self-conscious about it for many years. So I can't say that I did bring it up, but I wish I did.

Katherine Nagasawa: Mm-hmm, I wanted to switch a little bit to talking about some of your early memories of the redress movement. You mentioned to us that your great-grandma gave you and your siblings her redress money. Can you tell that story and just talk about what you knew about redress at the time and how 00:12:00you felt about it?

Rebecca Ozaki (Becky): Sure. I didn't know much to be honest. The tidbits that I got from my grandparents and even from my dad and his siblings post, you know post-redress was that, that they used to hold meetings in their living room, which is cool for me because we live in that house now. So, when I go into that living room, I try to imagine you know the conversations that were had. I know that my grandfather-- or my grandparents were involved in both of the lanes that it took to... Or both of the lanes that folks organized around during redress. So, the CJAR side and the side that you know the Civil Liberties Act was finally passed. So for me, I think that is important to reflect on that they chose to be part of both groups. I think, I know that my grandfather had a lot of 00:13:00relationships in the community and was respected. And when I talked to Bill Yoshino about it, he said that was really important for people to see that both sides were equally as important in what it took to you know win redress in the end. So unfortunately, I don't have too many you know stories or nuggets of that history aside from that. But, I... Yeah I think I am still trying to uncover it by asking you know relatives what they've, what they've known from that.

Katherine Nagasawa: Mm-hmm, and then can you talk--[audio cuts out]-- receiving some of the redress money as well, like when that happened and how it was explained to you?

Rebecca Ozaki (Becky): Yeah. I can't remember how old we were but my great grandma, our Baa-chan, she lived you know, in the house with my grandparents and 00:14:00my dad and my, my aunt and uncle growing up. I think she lived until she was like, 99 years old. Yeah, for a very long time. And after she passed, it was years after she passed, but I think my parents mentioned that she left us money, that she left us money and that you know, we could use it when we were a certain age or something like that. I think when we... I don't even know if I asked because I was young and I was like, "That's great, there, you know, thank you Baa-chan." I, I didn't really even know the question to ask around it. But I do kind of remember my mom and dad saying, you know this is from, like this is because our family was put into camps. And for me at the time to make those 00:15:00connections, I don't think they explained everything you know, fully to the point of, this is how the money got to you necessarily. But they did say that, that like this is because our family was put into incarceration camps and your grandmother saved this for each of you. So, I don't think, again, at the time the impact of it or what that meant or even my grandparents' role in redress resonated as they told us that we were getting you know X amount of dollars. But again, as I got older, you know, I feel the, like the privilege in that and also that my family fought hard to get an apology and also reparations because of what happened. So it's a lot to reflect on that I'm realizing as I get older.

Katherine Nagasawa: Mm-hmm, as you like put all the pieces together.

Rebecca Ozaki (Becky): Right.

Katherine Nagasawa: I, I love that detail about how you know, you think about your living room and all the history that happened in it and meetings from NCJAR you know that would've happened in that space. What does it mean for you to inherit your grandpa's space and know that the place you live in was part of the Midwest Redress Movement history?

Rebecca Ozaki (Becky): I feel very lucky that we can be in that space. We inherited it under circumstances, you know that we weren't expecting, I guess I'll say, because we wanted to help my family... It was either, you know get rid of the house because it's falling apart or try to save it. So, to me that house represents a lot of things, including the redress movement, my grandparents' legacy and the way that they showed up in community. There were so many gatherings in that house that I remember and that predated you know, my life. So 00:17:00our family has been in Rogers Park, in that specific house, for over 60 years now. So to inherit that to me, and also have like my family and my nine-month-old move into that house and be able to, yeah like connect with the Rogers Park community and continue my grandparents' legacy, I don't know, as we live out our lives there, it feels really special and definitely a privilege too, yeah.

Katherine Nagasawa: Could you share any artifacts that you might've stumbled upon in the house kind of going through your grandpa and grandma's materials? Are there any standout things of theirs that you've found?

Rebecca Ozaki (Becky): Yes, they kept so many things in their closets. And... 00:18:00Where do I even start? On my grandmother's closet, as we were cleaning things out, we found old photos from Japan, documents you know, from my Baa-chan's immigration here, photos of folks we don't even know, but it still like means something to me. It's very hard to sort through all of that history. In my grandfather's side of his closet at the time, he, you know we still have the trunk that he took into the war when he was part of the 442. And all of his medals and his backpack were in there. He had this diary that was a five-year journal and every year he would write something and he started it the year that the war started, that. And I remember one entry, I don't know you know, what month or date it was, but it said, "The FBI took my father away." And that's all 00:19:00it said. It was just like one line for that one year. And two years later, the same day my grandfather wrote like, "I am joining the 442 to be with my friends." Like these little things that I couldn't even fathom at his age. He was only 17 when the war started. That was something also very special but jarring as I would go through it to see you know, what his and many Japanese Americans lives were like at that time. It's just completely different from what you know, I've been through or what my, luckily what my child you know, hopefully will go through in his life. Very different. We also have a, like a family crest that has been in our family for, I don't know, generations maybe that my great-great-great-great-grandmother handcrafted. So that hangs in our 00:20:00house too. But yeah there's a lot of, there's a lot of history there that we try to hold onto and try to figure out how to preserve you know, the best that we can so that one day I can show my son these things that mean so much to me. Yeah.

Katherine Nagasawa: Mm-hmm. That's incredible about the diary and I'm wondering, did you discover that sort of when you moved in or was that, did you discover it when your grandpa was still alive and were you able to talk to him about it?

Rebecca Ozaki (Becky): I discovered that... So it was after my grandfather passed, but after that time I would go... My uncle still lived in that house, so I would go to their house a lot you know and I would hang out with my uncle. And I guess I call it treasure hunting. I would literally just go through all of 00:21:00their closets and look for things, not really looking for anything at the same time, just to see what would come out because I knew they had so many artifacts and like mementos that they never mentioned to me. So, every time I would go to that house, I would just wander around and treasure hunt I guess. So I found it during you know one of those times and I think I found it in my, like the back of my grandpa's closet in his backpack that he brought to the, you know, that he brought to the war. Totally tucked away and he never mentioned it at all to us as we were growing up like many of the things in that house.

Katherine Nagasawa: Mm-hmm. Wow. How did it change your understanding of him and also of Japanese American incarceration to read those firsthand accounts from when he was so young?

Rebecca Ozaki (Becky): I think that, you know, I've heard the stories. Again, I 00:22:00felt fortunate that my grandparents would talk to us about it because it was such a traumatic event. I can understand why many people, Japanese Americans did not want to talk about it and wanted to you know, leave it in the past. I think reading what he went through in particular was just like a different level of what, my understanding of what happened. Because he was 17, 18, 19 at the time when he was writing these things in his journal. Like I don't know if he knew that one day his grandchildren would read that right? Or later maybe his great-grandchildren. But yeah, I used the word jarring before, but I think that's how it felt just to... I, I've gone through that whole journal probably a couple of times. And sometimes I will just pick you know, whatever day today is 00:23:00and look to see what he was doing that day. And it's still very... I don't know, I don't even know what the word is. It's surprising and sad sometimes to see how different our lives were. So, it also makes me feel really appreciative for not what they went through 'cause they should not have had to go through that, but how my grandparents you know, passed on that legacy to us in a way that we, I think me and my siblings have learned to value. Again, things like community or standing in solidarity and have really... We've taken to heart you know, all of these lessons.

Katherine Nagasawa: Mm-hmm, and I know you said that you know, when it comes to the redress movement, you might not have found as many artifacts yet or your 00:24:00family doesn't maybe have as many... Maybe didn't have as many conversations with your grandparents about that. But are there any other memories that your aunts and uncles or parents have shared with you related to your grandparents' involvement in redress? Whether that's you know, the meetings that were held or you mentioned your grandpa practicing his testimony over and over. Can you think of any others that's, that have been shared?

Rebecca Ozaki (Becky): Yeah I, let's see. So my mom spent a lot of time with my grandpa too, and I tried to ask her. He's her father-in-law, but still they spent a lot of time together. So, I tried to ask her if she remembered anything and the memories she had, because my parents are musicians, she said that my dad and my mom went to Washington, D.C. I don't know what the timeline was, but it happened to perform. My dad was a singer and my mom's a concert pianist at a 00:25:00ceremony around redress at some point. And I'm not sure you know, what the details were or even if the timelines match, but I know that that was something you know, that was a big deal for them in our family, that my family, you know, the next generation too, got to participate in that way because of what you know, my grandfather in that generation had passed on to us through redress.

Katherine Nagasawa: Mm-hmm. And I even found a poster of your parents' names performing at some sort of local event too in Chicago. So, it seems like they might've been involved kind of as performers in a bunch of the NCJAR-related things which is neat. Did your mom say anything about how she felt personally or how your dad might've felt about the redress movement as the younger generation?

Rebecca Ozaki (Becky): My dad, I don't know that he's spoken to me directly about redress per se. I know that he, he was angry, you know obviously about what happened to our family and to his parents and held that anger for a very long time. I think when it came to redress, I just honestly I remember him saying like, "We should have gotten more. We should have asked for more." And I can't argue with that, I think that his generation too was raised like in the civil rights movement and movements looked really different. So I do remember my dad saying that like it's not enough. And I think he took many actions in his life to demonstrate that and to say what the government did is unacceptable. 00:27:00It'll never be okay even with an apology. That's really the stance he took and he made it, yeah, he would talk to us about that a good amount actually. So I'm not sure if he had memories necessarily from redress or you know other insights, but I do know that that overall, is how he felt about what happened and the outcomes. He felt that the government needs to do more. And I think he respected and appreciated all the organizing efforts of the community, absolutely, but he was, he still held a lot of anger towards the U.S. government, which I think, again, as I get older, I really do understand that perspective as well.

Katherine Nagasawa: Mm-hmm. One thing I wanted to ask about is you know, when we think about artifacts from redress, the digitized videos of the testimonies are, 00:28:00are one of those main kind of artifacts we have to understand what happened during the hearings and, and also people's personal stories. And several people have mentioned to us that your grandpa's testimony really stood out to them. When they think about memories from those hearings, like they said it was Sam Ozaki's testimony that they, that stuck with them. And so, I was curious about you know, whether you'd watched that testimony and how it made you feel to, to hear what your grandpa said, especially that you know, the fact that he kind of did adapt what he said in the moment too and was a little bit more spontaneous with his message.

Rebecca Ozaki (Becky): I've watched it many times, yeah. And sometimes when I miss him I will just pull it up and watch it as well because, yeah his voice is very calming to me and I think to a lot of people. I don't know how to describe the way he can move a room, but it was really powerful. And that testimony 00:29:00definitely demonstrated that. I read the one that he had on paper, which was equally as moving but different than the one that he shared in that room. And yeah I mean for me, it makes me really proud. I was close to him, but it makes me proud to be his granddaughter. I think the way, at the end of the testimony, he kind of demanded these things and said why. I think he made really like poignant points about the demands that they were asking for. And I sometimes watch that speech and try to learn from it about how to, myself, you know, be a better public speaker and all of these things. The things in that testimony that resonate with me though are the moments that are, where he does share more about 00:30:00like their life before because he was like a very respected, like well-spoken person, but also didn't necessarily share vulnerabilities in, in a certain way I guess. So, to hear him share some of the things in that testimony moved me the most. I'm trying to remember. Sometimes I get confused of what was on paper and what he said in the room because I've read and heard both so many times. One thing, I don't know, maybe this was the one that he wrote on paper, but he did write things and probably say things that this was the start of like family separation because families were separated during that time. For me, I'm a social worker and that idea in general is why I, I have done a lot of the work that I've done. He's also talked about like these tiny moments where he 00:31:00remembers their dog Ichi running after the car when they had to leave to go to camp or, again, like his father being taken away. There's a line in one of his testimonies that he writes... Like to see his father, go from a productive person to someone that he, that didn't quite know how to like contribute anymore was something heartbreaking for my grandpa. And I, yeah definitely feel those things the most when it comes to what he shared.

Katherine Nagasawa: If you can, I know obviously, it's kind of, the lines are blurred between what was said and what was written, but if you could summarize what you feel the differences were between kind of the prepared testimony and the more spontaneous one. How would you characterize that?

Rebecca Ozaki (Becky): I think, I think in the written testimony he had a lot of, shared some vulnerable moments. I still think that he did that in the spoken testimony he gave as well, but I felt more of an urgency in the spoken testimony. I don't know if it's because he was saying those things... No, I think it was his voice. Like he obviously adapted that for the moment and knew who he was talking to. He refers to very specific people and says that, "I'm sorry they couldn't be with us" you know, because he wanted to look them in the eye and share his testimony. So, I think there's some urgency in that that is possibly why people felt moved. I think the demands that he shares at the end were probably in both, but in the spoken one, testimony, felt very compelling 00:33:00that he was able to look you know, these folks in the eye and say what you did was wrong. I forgot what the quote is at the end, but he says like, America needs to make this right. And yeah so hearing that's, that has stayed with me as well.

Katherine Nagasawa: Do you know if he or his kids ever talked about his decision to change the testimony the day of? Like do you remember him talking about what compelled him to do that or if any of your parents or aunts and uncles ever discussed that, that decision?

Rebecca Ozaki (Becky): I don't know the details of that, unfortunately. I do think It's interesting that my uncle said that he heard my grandfather practicing you know, leading up to the date over and over and over again, the 00:34:00same speech. And then that he decided to change it in the moment, must have, he must have been moved by being in that space. I can only imagine I wasn't there obviously, but by being in that space with other Japanese Americans that experienced the same thing, I can imagine maybe he was moved after hearing the other folks speak right before him about their experience as well. And he took that opportunity you know, to make sure yeah, that his words held weight and that they really stayed with the commission that was listening. So I wish I knew that story more in depth but that's only what I can imagine of, of how he delivered that.

Katherine Nagasawa: Mm-hmm. Yeah, and it makes me so curious to see the written version. I wonder if it's at the JACL or if you happen to have a, a copy, I'd be 00:35:00really curious to read the differences between kind of more of the personal vulnerable you know, moments versus maybe the argument he was trying to make in the, in the recorded one.

Rebecca Ozaki (Becky): Yeah I, Bill Yoshino sent it to me years ago, so I can share that with you all.

Katherine Nagasawa: Okay. That would be, that would be amazing. I think one of the last questions from my end is just, you mentioned this earlier, the DePaul event just right after 9/11 and how you remember your grandpa standing up and sort of speaking and urging Japanese Americans to stand in solidarity with the Muslim community. I also remember you said that that was one of the first moments when you started connecting the story of Japanese American incarceration with more broad themes of racial violence or racial injustice. So, can you talk to me about kind of how you made that connection from-- and maybe the role that 00:36:00your grandpa played in helping you see and frame our experience that way?

Rebecca Ozaki (Becky): He said that we need to stand with our Muslim, Sikh-- Muslim and Sikh brothers and sisters. That is just like a line that is burned into my memory. And again, when he spoke, people listened. I didn't know what that meant to me at the time. But I think it's a memory that not only I have, but I think other folks who are my age, they've mentioned it to me, which I think is really interesting. I go back to that when I, I guess just like as I've grown up to try to figure out what you know, my own path is in life. I have been involved in community in a lot of ways too, and I think, or I know that that's because of them. They really taught us that that is the most important thing to 00:37:00be part of your community, you know, to care for your family, and to yeah just stand up for what you think is right in you know, whatever ways that looks. So I go back to that moment and that quote as the time where you know, in moments that are tough for me, where it's really hard to make a decision or I feel burnt out, or I don't have, yeah just the energy and I don't want to take a stand. I think about what my grandfather said and that... I mean even now, yeah like it's a privilege to not take a stand, I think, and to say that we're not going to do anything or to make that choice for myself. You know and sometimes I do make that choice because I'm tired or because you know I've been in this work for a little while. But that quote and him saying it, like his voice in my head just 00:38:00constantly rings with you know, how can I be better or how can I make sure that I'm showing up for other folks too. Because I know that my community you know and the Japanese American community has shown up for me in many ways too, so through my life-- Again, I'm a social worker, but I'm more community based. I've also been a community organizer working with elders, doing things like healing circles during the pandemic. And I think the way that he has cared for others has really rubbed off on me and I think my siblings as well. So yeah I'm glad I mean that I have a moment that has resonated with me and has helped kind of guide me through my life.

Katherine Nagasawa: Mm-hmm. Mary, I'll let you pick it up from here, kind of 00:39:00talking about maybe Becky's more current roles you know in racial justice movements and whatnot.

Mary Doi: Okay, thanks Kat. One thing, as I'm listening to you, I realize that a way that you have been privileged is that you have the intimate knowledge of your grandfather, whether it comes through a diary, or whether it comes through just the tone he used in the words that he said at the testimony. And that to me, that's another gift that he gave to you. You know and, and I think maybe people seek that when they go to Manzanar or Rohwer, that they seek this kind of emotional connection, which short of having a diary or hearing your grandfather's voice at a hearing, is so hard to get, it's so hard to claim. You know it is so hard to understand what did they feel like, not just the facts of, 00:40:00not just the chronology of how they got here, but what the experience meant in their larger life. So I really, I thank you for saying those kinds of things 'cause making me think of him. And you're right, I don't know how to describe your grandfather's voice. It was deep, it was sonorous, it was not, it was-- It was angry without being loudly angry. You know and, and I'm one of the fans of, of Sam Ozaki in the community. And I just wonder, I know that you have uncles, another uncle in Chicago, and cousins in the neighborhood or in the area. Do you know if they were equally involved in redress as your dad?

Rebecca Ozaki (Becky): Oh, let's see. I know that my-- So my grandfather had siblings who were equally as amazing, I hear. We were younger, so you know, I knew them from family parties, but we didn't spend as much time with them. They 00:41:00had large families as well. So I know that they played different roles in the Chicago American Japanese, you know Japanese American community, but I'm not quite sure what it looked like during redress for his siblings at the time. I wish I did though. Yeah.

Mary Doi: Yeah, okay. Well I guess I'm interested in moving into the kinds of, the other kinds of experiences that you've had with people that make you involved in issues of racial violence you know, because of what happened to Japanese Americans. Can you think of other kinds of ways that you connected the dots and, and show us what solidarity means?

Rebecca Ozaki (Becky): Sure. I became a social worker because of something that my aunt, my grandfather's sister said to us when we were on a road trip to California. She lives in California, Auntie June, we call her. She and my 00:42:00grandpa were there and it was one of the rare times that they were together. And she told me, you know I was asking, "What do you know about, you know or-- Can you share memories from childhood about you know, grandpa?" And she said, it was really sad actually, because she said once incarceration happened and they were sent to camps, they barely saw each other because everyone was like separated in a different way. You know, one sibling went to college outside of the camps. They were different ages too. My grandfather decided to enlist and go-- He was in the 442. And she, I'm not sure if she stayed in the camps, I think she also was able to leave to pursue education. But she said that they don't have memories together because after that time they all went to different cities. So, she was in California and he went to Chicago. And the idea of, that was the 00:43:00first time the idea of the camps forcing family separation, whether it was, you know... Well they were intentional, the camps were intentional, but I mean whether that product was intentional or not. That's the first time that idea even came to me when she said, "I didn't really know him because, because we were separated at the time. And from that point, didn't live together." So for me, I became a social worker, I think, to kind of explore that and the idea of what does intergenerational trauma look like because especially from my grandmother's story where she lost her father you know, weeks before the camps closed, I've just wanted to understand what that looked like and more so what does intergenerational healing look like when things like racial violence, forced separation and all of these things are forced upon an entire community. 00:44:00So that's why I went to pursue social work. But what came from that is that I ended up becoming a community organizer for a few years, working with elders, really with the goal of making sure that people could age in place in their homes with dignity because we helped care for my grandparents as they aged, and they were so you know, close and important to me, and I knew how important it was for them to be in their homes too. So I think that the lessons of incarceration are many fold and I've taken you know, many different things from that. But the pieces around like healing and what does it mean to be able to keep families together, especially in this time when there's so many policies that are you know, reenacting what happened to Japanese Americans in this day 00:45:00and age, it's just really sad and ridiculous. Those are the things that I'm trying to combat and also trying to help folks heal from, I think, is really what I've taken from, from this terrible experience my grandparents went through.

Mary Doi: I know that other Yonseis like you--

Ty Yamamoto: Sorry can we pause for just one moment?

Mary Doi: Okay. I hear a humming every once in a while. Like "mmm, mmm, mmm".

Ty Yamamoto: Do you know where you're hearing it from?

Mary Doi: No.

Rebecca Ozaki (Becky): It could be my, I think my phone hummed for a second. Let me make s-- I don't know how to turn off the vibration. I'll just put it over there.

Ty Yamamoto: Yeah it's, it's coming from the microphone.

Ty Yamamoto: Yeah, you can go ahead.

Mary Doi: Okay. We were talking a little bit about intergenerational trauma and 00:46:00healing circles. I'm still wrapping my head around the concept of intergenerational trauma and healing circles. So you gave an example when we had a phone call about how you're working with I guess the Jane Addams Senior Caucus to do healing circles for seniors during the pandemic. Can you explain a little bit about that? I want to hear what a healing circle... What their goals are and how you, how you conduct one, and then how you know if you're successful.

Rebecca Ozaki (Becky): Oh, okay. Let me know if it's okay, Ty?

Ty Yamamoto: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, we're good.

Rebecca Ozaki (Becky): So during the pandemic, I was a community organizer with elders and we lost a lot of people, especially at the start of the pandemic when COVID-19 first hit. And it was hard to know what to do because we couldn't gather right? Folks, these are mostly seniors living in Chicago public housing 00:47:00and folks felt very isolated. So the first thing that folks wanted was to be able to celebrate the life of Frank Hill, who was someone you know, that we all really cared about and loved. And he passed unexpectedly when COVID began. So, we held a virtual memorial for Frank and invited you know, the leaders and the members of the organization and also Frank's family members if they wanted to come. We shared stories about him. This is all on Zoom. And we you know, tried to collect photos of Frank through his life and, and showed those as well. That memorial, because folks couldn't gather in person like we would have in any other scenario, I think really was impactful or healing for, for our members. 00:48:00So, what came from that is we started healing circles that the members themselves led. So I was just there to help like organize and guide them through that. And healing circles you know, are an indigenous practice where, again, in any other scenario, you would be in person. Often they would happen like around a, a fire, things like that. So, we adopted-- adapted them for our members and the members were the ones who were leading these circles and facilitating them. I think the goal with these was to like decrease isolation for folks and help them you know through that feel connected and feel like they have a space that they could go to, to talk about the hardships or trauma that they were facing during the pandemic. That, that was pretty much simply how they were born. So we 00:49:00would hold one every month and invite community members who are mostly elders, but then eventually like more and more folks came to join, and then more and more folks were the ones to organize them, so it was you know passed on. I'm hoping they still exist. You know, even after I left the organization, I still keep in touch with folks too. But that to me was really important and special because I think you know, in community organizing, for that purpose, we had a lot of things that we wanted to achieve. Obviously, passing policies at the state level. We also worked with organizations on the national level around care and like family policies. Again, making sure elders or people could age with dignity in their homes. But that, the healing circles in particular, I think helped people feel like a different level of care. They helped people feel 00:50:00connected in a way where our movements, like our campaigns or phone banking or, or having rallies, didn't necessarily? And I think they really built a community through that. So in thinking about Japanese American incarceration and intergenerational healing, to me, I think the most valuable thing in our community is that we're intergenerational and that we have these stories that are passed along you know between the generations and have learned... Like I've learned so much, obviously, from my grandparents and other folks in the community. So to me, healing circles are a space to share that and also to be open about like the harm that was caused during incarceration and the ways that it has impacted us you know, generations down the line. I think obviously, as a 00:51:00social worker, for me, it's really important, and just like a community organizer, for folks to feel like they have a space to talk about that because I think for a long time, you know mental health was just something that folks could not talk about or it's been taboo. I think that now that that narrative is changing a bit and I would like to see our community be able to engage in conversations that are probably very uncomfortable and really hard to have. But in the end, I think the goal would be that they are healing for folks to be able to just say the ways that incarceration has impacted us and our families because you know, I, I think the model minority myth has like, has been placed upon the Japanese American community, but there are folks struggling in many ways. And to me, that is really important to talk about.

Mary Doi: Thanks, Becky.

Rebecca Ozaki (Becky): Yeah.

Mary Doi: I'm also interested if you've participated in any movements around redress and reparations for other communities.

Rebecca Ozaki (Becky): Mmm, mm-hmm. I... Let's see... I think, so the beginning of COVID... Let's see... Yeah, so much has happened. Just yeah, the murder of George Floyd, Breonna Taylor, so many, so many other people. I'd say I haven't actively participated in a way that I would like to. I've been part of, you know I've attended like meetings. I know Evanston just passed reparations for African Americans as well. So I've been in some conversations but I wouldn't say that I've taken any like lead roles in those spaces. I've really just tried to learn as much as I could to understand the reasons why we were able to receive reparations but like Black folks and African Americans have not been able to. I 00:53:00think it's interesting the way that the language was written in our-- you know the Civil Liberties Act of 1988 to say, to basically say that this is only for Japanese Americans and we're not setting a precedent for African Americans. So I think to me, I'm still trying to learn how to show up in that space and for reparations for African Americans yeah, in a way that, I don't know where I could feel like I'm supporting. Yeah, I don't have a great answer but-- Mm-hmm.

Mary Doi: Do you feel that there are Sansei who also have that sort of stance about showing up for others? When you think about your aunts and uncles or other Sansei that you know, is this, is this something that's much more generational and it's a Yonsei effort, or you know, what's your opinion. Or even of your 00:54:00grandparents' generation, do you feel that showing up in support and solidarity is something that you see in older generations?

Rebecca Ozaki (Becky): Mm-hmm, yeah. Well I worked, since I worked with elders in Chicago, who would be like the Nisei generation, technically. I mean, I think yes, I, I think it depends on the person, but I've also, especially during COVID times and with everything happening in movement spaces, like all the protests that have happened over the years too, I do think that... I know that the Yonsei generation and even younger than me really do try I think to be part of other community spaces and show up. I mean I do think my grandparents like made those 00:55:00relationships as well and tried to do that. I think it's hard to say... I know my dad, my aunt and my uncle cared about that as well but I'm not sure... I don't know what it looked like for them necessarily. So I think that it's-- Yeah, I don't know, because I don't want to categorize a whole generation. You know what I mean?

Mary Doi: That's completely fair.

Rebecca Ozaki (Becky): Sure, sure, sure.

Mary Doi: I think you've given us an indication of how your grandpa's you know work and actions and words drew you to social work and the kinds of things you do. But I'm also interested in other experiences you may have had. I know you were in the first cohort of Kansha. I know that you probably are a JACL Chicago member because you work for this organization.

Rebecca Ozaki (Becky): Yes.

Mary Doi: So can you talk a little bit about those kinds of experiences? And then I'm really interested in the question of how does repair happen? What does it look like for the Japanese American community? So let's talk about your 00:56:00experiences first and then move into how does repair happen, what does it look like?

Rebecca Ozaki (Becky): Okay. I participated in the Kansha Project, the very first Kansha Project in 2012. And you know, prior to that, I was involved in the Japanese community, but more so just by, you know through my grandparents like attending events that they would take us to. I didn't, I can't necessarily say that I had my own connection to my generation before the Kansha Project because we didn't have like first cousins who are Japanese American. We don't have any it's, just me and my siblings. So, Kansha was the first time I was really in a room with other like Yonsei or, or folks in my generation who were Japanese American. And it was really powerful. I think I built relationships from the Kansha Project. You know, we traveled to Little Tokyo, learned about 00:57:00incarceration, but really meaningfully also went to Manzanar incarceration site. And that's just an experience I can't... We do it every year but I can't describe like the connection that I feel I have to the folks that I went on the trip with. It's like, it's been over 10 years you know, for us and I still feel like I can talk to one of them and it'll feel the same. Like I, I think the Kansha Project for me forged really strong connections with folks that are still you know, in the community. And if not, like we still keep in touch or I keep in touch with a lot of them. So that was really meaningful for me to be able to start building my community. And from there I was involved in the Kansha Alumni Leadership Board, which is a group of alumni who plan the Kansha Project each 00:58:00year. And this year we brought that back for the ALB to happen and for them to plan the trip too. I think it's been really full circle for me to come back as a JACL Chicago staff member as well, after all these years. I, I did serve on the board for a few years. I've been involved with like the OCA/JACL summit. I worked for other community Asian American organizations like Advancing Justice and OCA. But to come back to JACL for me just feels yeah very full circle. That I'm kind of living out my grandparents' legacy by you know working with our community in this way. And to me it was important to you know, go through all those programs with JACL Chicago, build my community, like take a step back for 00:59:00a little bit and then come back as I now have a baby. For Kai especially, to be raised in this community, that really is the most important thing to me and why I decided to you know, join the staff at JACL too.

Mary Doi: Well using that as a springboard, your, your past experiences and the new ownership that I think you feel being part of the community on your own terms, not as Sam Ozaki's granddaughter. I'm still interested in, do you think repair for, for the incarceration experience has happened? What does it look like? Where should it move?

Rebecca Ozaki (Becky): Mm-hmm, I think that redress was a huge feat and a very important one. I'm really, as an organizer myself, completely impressed by the steps and the movement that had to happen for folks of that generation to pass 01:00:00that, the Civil Liberties Act of 1988 for our community. I think a lot of people needed that apology, formal apology from the government. You know, $20,000 is something, I agree with my father it's not... It's hard to monetize but I think my grandfather also said you know, money is the American way and that's what the government cares about, so we need to put a number to something. I have heard other versions of what redress or reparations could have looked like, which did include kind of like a mental health lens of folks getting like social services and things like that too. And that is the piece for me, that I think has been missing. I think there's organizations in our community that have done an amazing job with filling in those gaps. But I do think that repair can still 01:01:00happen in like an emotional, like psychosocial lens of folks just feeling like they can talk about the experience and learn from it. And also, again, talk about the hard uncomfortable things that I don't think everyone has gotten the space to talk about yet. And I do see a lot of energy from folks not just in my generation but beyond to create space for that at this time. And you know, healing means a lot of different things to a lot of different people. Healing circles are not the answer for everybody but I think like opening that door to give people the opportunity to just say like their reality of what happened and the harm that it has caused is a really important start for our community. So that's kind of the direction that I'm hoping to help foster you know, in my 01:02:00time, or as you said, not just as like Sam and Harue Ozaki's granddaughter but like for what I would like to achieve in my own name as, as well and for my son. Yeah.

Mary Doi: Yeah. I love how you said that the Civil Liberties Act of 1988 was really necessary. That again, I, I agree with that. My mother really, the apology was really necessary for my mother. But I'm wondering if certain institutions like the government can take repair only so far, and that there are other levels of harm that were caused that have to have other ways of addressing.

Rebecca Ozaki (Becky): Right.

Mary Doi: Do you, can you think of other, other ways that you've seen this being addressed?

Rebecca Ozaki (Becky): Yeah. I think the strategies... You know at the beginning of the war when folks were being put into the camps, all the way to redress and 01:03:00beyond that even within the community, I know that there are differences in what that looked like and maybe some repair that needs to happen there between individuals but also like community organizations. And I think like we've been on the road to do that and that it's really important because to me as, even though I've you know kind of been raised in the community, as someone who has taken a step back and is coming back in, I think it's just clear to me that we all have the same goal, you know that we are all fighting for the same thing for our community and beyond that. So, I think there's repair that could happen between, you know whether it's national or local levels, just like between organizations and things that could you know, be left in the past. But I do say that as someone who like recognizes that those things were hard for folks and I 01:04:00don't want to dismiss that either, I just would love to be part of finding out what it could look like to repair relationships in that way.

Mary Doi: So if you took a, maybe more, maybe made it more abstract than just organizational discord and you think about your own self, have you, do you feel that you have repaired from your grandparents' experience, do you feel that you're still in the process of being healed? And if so, what needs to be healed still?

Rebecca Ozaki (Becky): Yeah I am. I don't know if there's an end goal to healing, I think, is one piece that I am realizing as we're talking. I have seen ways that the trauma showed up for my grandparents and I've seen ways that it has showed up for definitely my father and his siblings. Different, you know, it 01:05:00has looked different. And I definitely also see the ways that for me and my siblings, the impact of the harm that was caused from incarceration has trickled down to us too. So I think-- Yeah.

Mary Doi: If you had to summarize the different generational responses, is there you know, a brief sentence or two that you could give?

Rebecca Ozaki (Becky): In terms of like the ways that it has looked, or?

Mary Doi: Yes, yes.

Rebecca Ozaki (Becky): Sure. Let me think.

Mary Doi: If you want to come back to that at the end, you know, you can mull that over a little bit.

Rebecca Ozaki (Becky): Sure. Yeah.

Mary Doi: I'm going to interject, as a, not as an interviewer, but as a person. You know, I see that repair still happens through efforts like Duncan Williams' Ireicho, the naming of everybody. That this is a, another way to repair. To put 01:06:00individuals in the camps, not just 120,000. But to put you know, Kazuyuki Doi into that name, list of names. So I see that that is an artistic way. You know, I'm sure that there are many other ways, even, even reclaiming aspects of Japanese culture, but making them Japanese American. And I think of taiko as an example of that. You know it has roots in Japan, but JA taiko is very different than even contemporary taiko in Japan. You know, but I watched this really interesting little NHK piece on a museum that was destroyed during the great earthquake tsunami in Japan in 2011 in the Tohoku Region. And one of the things that the only curator who's still left has said was that as he's seeing his city being re, rebuilt, that the infrastructure has come back and now people seem 01:07:00maybe able to face the emotional harm that was done by seeing their city devastated, losing family, losing friends. And he said that one way he thinks that emotional repair can happen is through cultural assets. And I'm thinking that assets are not just things but they're also relationships like you've talked about repairing community relationship at the organizational level. But then I'm thinking that heck, Ho Etsu Taiko is much about repair because it can claim your own history, your own culture back you know, as having the fishing net that was destroyed in the Tohoku earthquake. So, it's really opened my mind about what repair looks like, how many different realms repair can happen in?

Rebecca Ozaki (Becky): Yeah. And that it's different for everyone too. Yeah.

Mary Doi: Yeah, yeah.

Rebecca Ozaki (Becky): Yeah I think, you know, what Kat asked me about the artifacts in my home, to me that is for me a way of healing just to be able to 01:08:00hold on to something tangible from beyond my life you know and yeah be able to share that with other people, that is repair. I think for a while, I was doing organizing around language justice too. And I can't speak another language so people are like, "Why do you care about this?" But to me it is what you're saying it is, the fact that the Japanese language was taken from my family. And as Kai is old-- or you know grows up, I really feel that absence of you know, he could have had this piece of his culture, but it was literally taken from us. So, I want him to be able to learn that, like to go to Tampopo Kai, JASC's you know, program or for my mom and aunt to speak to him in Tagalog. We're also Filipino. So yeah, I agree. I think it could look different in tangible ways and 01:09:00more abstract ways and relationships as well.

Mary Doi: Right and that, that's a new way of thinking for me. So, as a Sansei who is like, "What the heck is intergenerational trauma? What does repair look like?" I'm hopefully making it clear in my own head to me.

Rebecca Ozaki (Becky): Yeah, I love that.

Mary Doi: Thank you so much for all of this. Do you have any final thoughts or reflections?

Rebecca Ozaki (Becky): Let's see. I am... You know, we talk about Kansha a lot, but I am really grateful for past generations and all the work that it took. I know how hard organizing is. So, to pass something like redress or the Civil Liberties Act of this magnitude, I have so much respect for that, it's unfathomable, honestly, and especially you know in today's age, I think. There's still a lot of lessons to learn from the act itself, but also the strategy and 01:10:00the amount of community relationships and organizing and just thought behind being able to pass something like that. I... I don't know, I have high hopes for this country and for us to be able to continue to pass policies that are positively life-changing for folks around things that we've talked about, like racial injustice or family separation. To me, it does feel very personal too because I have a child now and everything feels different. To be able to pass on these lessons and like the legacy that my grandparents and past generations, it's all like, has been passed down into my son Kai. It's kind of amazing to see. So I, yeah, I am hopeful for the future and what it looks like and all the 01:11:00things we've learned from that.

Mary Doi: Great. Thank you so much, Becky. This was wonderful.

Rebecca Ozaki (Becky): Yeah, thank you all.

Mary Doi: Any, any more comments, Kat?

Katherine Nagasawa: No, just a lot of appreciation, Becky. And just wanted to say that I had photocopied a bunch of documents to share with you kind of related to your grandpa's application for testimony and some flyers and stuff. And I, I meant to bring them in person when we were going to do the interview in February, but I can either scan them and email them or if you wanted to send me your mailing address I could mail them too.

Mary Doi: Oh cool okay.

Katherine Nagasawa: But yeah. And then if--

Mary Doi: That's awesome.

Katherine Nagasawa: ...you wouldn't mind forwarding the written testimony that Bill sent you, that would be also really interesting to compare the two, the two versions.

Rebecca Ozaki (Becky): Yeah. Thanks, Kat. Great.

Katherine Nagasawa: But thank you so much.

Mary Doi: And I found something that you may not know, but Studs Terkel interviewed your grandfather in that--

Rebecca Ozaki (Becky): Yeah, I have the book.

Mary Doi: ..."Hope Dies Last". Yeah

Rebecca Ozaki (Becky): They spelled his last name wrong, very disappointing, but I do have that.

Mary Doi: Yeah, okay. I'm glad you have it because it's like, oh, I remember that Studs Terkel interviewed somebody. I'm glad it was your grandfather.

Rebecca Ozaki (Becky): Yeah. It was a good one. But I'm like, oh yeah, they spelled his name. O-S-A-K-I. Like so close. But yeah, thank you so much.

Mary Doi: Yeah, well, thank you.

Rebecca Ozaki (Becky): I was--