Saiki, James (7/19/2018)

James Saiki: How, how about the volume? You want me to speak louder, or...

Anna Takada: No, you can, just like this is fine.

James Saiki: Okay.

Anna Takada: Okay. This is an interview with James Saiki as part of the Japanese American Service Committee and Chicago Japanese American Historical Society Oral History project. The interview is being conducted on July 19th, 2018, at about 1:00 PM in the afternoon at the Japanese American Service Committee in Chicago. James Saiki is being interviewed by Anna Takada of the Japanese American Service Committee. So to start, can you just state your name?f

James Saiki: My name's James T. Saiki.

Anna Takada: And where and when were you born?

James Saiki: I was born on April 3rd, 1932 in Wailua, Kauai, Hawaii.

Anna Takada: So like I mentioned, we'll be starting by hearing more about your family. So can you tell me a little bit about your parents, maybe where and when they were born?

James Saiki: Okay, both my mom and dad are from Yamaguchi prefecture in Japan. My dad came to Hawaii in 1905 to work for the sugar plantation, and mom was a picture bride who married my dad in 1915.

Anna Takada: They were both from the same prefecture?

James Saiki: Yes.

Anna Takada: And what were their names?

James Saiki: My dad's name is Yasutaro, and my mom's, Nui, N-U-I.

Anna Takada: And, and so your, your dad worked on a sugar plantation. And then, do you know any more details about what his life was like or the work that he was doing?

James Saiki: Yeah. Well originally he came as a worker on a sugar plantation, and later on as a part-time job we had 10 acres of rice farm, and we also did truck crops. So, but this was a part-time, both mom and dad worked full-time, and, well, mom had nine children, so for 20 years she was pregnant or caring, taking care of a youngster.

Anna Takada: Wow. And can you tell me about your, your siblings and the rest of your family? How many, so you said there were nine?

James Saiki: There were nine of us. I had two, two brothers and then a sister, and then six, six of us boys after, after that.

Anna Takada: Wow.

James Saiki: Yeah. So when the war broke out, I think all eight of, no, seven of us, one brother was in Honolulu, but all the rest were on the island of Kauai.

Anna Takada: And your eldest sibling, do you remember what year they were born?

James Saiki: My eldest, I would think he was born in 1917 or '18. And then all the rest two years after that, about two, two and a half years intervals.

Anna Takada: Wow. So there was quite an age difference then between you and your 00:04:00eldest sibling, then? For example.

James Saiki: Right. So we're two years apart, so my brother above me is two and a half years, and my other brother, my youngest brother is three and a half years. And all the rest, they're about, between, I'd say two years difference in age.

Anna Takada: And can you tell me what it was growing up in Kauai?

James Saiki: Well, being you know farmers, most of my activities were spent on a farm, very little social or vacation time. So my younger life, up until high 00:05:00school, was mainly devoted on the farm. Of course, I went to school, and being a farmer, part-time farmers, we had to work after school, on holidays, and weekends. So I used to, not hate, but I didn't care for holidays because that meant work and I barely missed school because that means I had to work if I'm home. So...

Anna Takada: Did you prefer one to the other, like school over, over working, or...

James Saiki: Oh yeah. Prefer, yeah, school because it's much easier. (laughs)

Anna Takada: Mhmm. And so as a child, what were some of your responsibilities on 00:06:00the farm?

James Saiki: Well, you know, I, I can recall when the war broke out in 1941, I was eight and a half years old, on a Sunday, and we were working on a vegetable farm. We were growing cucumbers, tomatoes, beans, and some eggplant, I think. So my life as a youngster until high school was mainly working on the farm.

Anna Takada: So it sounds like you probably didn't have much time for other activities.

James Saiki: Right, yeah. Very little, no movies, of course no television and all that thing. And my, and my home was on the rice farm until I was six years 00:07:00old. I think in 1938 we built a new home. But my original home that I was born and grew up was no electricity, no plumbing.

Anna Takada: Was that pretty standard?

James Saiki: What's that?

Anna Takada: Was that pretty standard on the island?

James Saiki: No, just in the valley where the rice farms were. There were about seven or eight farmers and we had no, no electricity or plumbing.

Anna Takada: And was your family religious at all?

James Saiki: Well, they were active in the Buddhist church, so until I became a Christian, I, when they asked me, I would say Buddhist as my religion. Of course I knew very little about the religion, it was more like I went there for activities.

Anna Takada: So was there, was there a temple in your town then?

James Saiki: Yes, there was one, one that-- Well, where I grew up, there were two, two different Buddhist sects.

Anna Takada: And, and how about language in the households? What languages--

James Saiki: Well, mom and dad spoke Japanese, and I spoke very little Japanese, mainly English or what they call pidgin English, which was a mixture of Japanese, Hawaiian, and different languages. And I usually communicated with mom and dad in that type of language. So it was very difficult, because when I was, 00:09:00when the war broke out, they closed all the temples and the language school. So I went only one hour a day after the English, English classes, one hour of language, yeah. One hour a week. And sometime four hours on Saturday. So my, my Japanese was very poor. And, and the, the unique thing is that in home we'd speak Japanese, broken Japanese. My, my, my siblings were better because they were older and went, had more education in Japanese language. But so we would 00:10:00communicate in Japanese to mom and dad and, and we spoke, we'd communicate strictly English with my siblings. And once we left home out of the door, it was complete English, no, no Japanese.

Anna Takada: And so you mentioned going to school, working, and then also language school. Can you tell me a little bit more about what schooling and your education was like as a, as a child?

James Saiki: My grammar school?

Anna Takada: Mm-hmm.

James Saiki: I guess you know, it's no different than the schools today. I think even high school, of, of course we didn't have in high school, a, a facility that, you know, modern facilities. Thinking back, I graduated in 1950, so no 00:11:00computers or that, that type of educational sources you know?

Anna Takada: And how about classmates and, and some of your peers, were other folks, were they also from parents who had immigrated to the U-- or to Kauai?

James Saiki: I think that my Japanese friends were, and their parents was similar to my parents. And then, we were the majority, of course. And then there was quite a few Filipinos, and, and they came from the Philippines, of course. Chinese, Koreans, Portuguese, Puerto Rican. And originally all of them came 00:12:00during that era to work on the plantations. And so their family upbringing was similar to mine.

Anna Takada: And so you were, when the, when the war broke out, you were still pretty young?

James Saiki: Yes, I was eight and a half years old, and I, I still remember, because we're working on farm and my neighbor came over and said, "The Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor and we're at war." But myself and my siblings did not... I think they just practicing, because you know we had no radio on the farm. And then it wasn't until noontime when we went back to the home and listened to radio that we realized that you know the war actually broke out. So...

Anna Takada: Would you happen to remember your reactions, or ...

James Saiki: Being at that age, I don't recall you know any dramatic... In fact, I think at that time, prior to that time, I guess Dad always, would listen to the radio about Japan with China and Shang--. And I think I kind of felt that I was for Japan, because they were doing well as far as the war was concerned. And it wasn't ... Probably a year or two after that and I realized what really happened about the war. And then of course my brother, six months after, 00:14:00volunteered for the four four sec-- World War II. So we got more, more involved with the American, you know forces in the war. And so...

Anna Takada: Why do you think that was that you were, as a child, kind of, I guess maybe sympathizing more with Japan?

James Saiki: With Japan? Well, I guess because of mom and dad, you know they were... But I think you know, once the war broke and we went to school and you know, the teachers told us what's happening, so I had a better understanding of what's happening. So, since that time I have no feeling for Japan. I was anti... 00:15:00I was so-called pure American. Singing American songs, war songs, and participating in the, buying, what they call that, bonds and saving stamps.

Anna Takada: Yeah. Can, can you explain some of those things? Or maybe what changed after the start of the war for you? Like in your life, what were some of the things that changed?

James Saiki: Well, of course, you know, initially on the first night, my, my brother being, my eldest brother, being a scout master, getted all the young boys to go over the, go around the neighborhood to inform them about the blackout, you know, no lights and cover your windows. And then, I remember my 00:16:00older siblings helped to put up barbed wire barriers along the beaches. And then I guess we started, we all had to carry a gas mask with us to school and all the time. And, and then we had to build what they called air raid shelters in the backyard to protect us if there was bombing or anything. Other than that, well you know the American soldiers came to our area camp, they had big camps and, 00:17:00and that's, that was about my only, my first exposure to white or Caucasians. And then my brother, working in the area where there was a big camp, made friends with some of the soldiers and would invite them over for weekends. And then from that time talking to them, I got to learn what mainland America was, and stateside. Until then, you know it was merely book and had no idea about...

Anna Takada: So it sounds like there were a lot of, I guess you could say like 00:18:00war efforts or you know things that were even passed down to children to help out with, like you mentioned... or maybe not children, but just young people. So you mentioned your brother helped like notifying people about blackouts or putting up barbed wire. Do you know where, where that was, like where those tasks had been coming from or delivered from? Like, was there a, an Army instruction or something to have people help with this? Or where would that have been coming from, those directions?

James Saiki: I'm not too sure. I think it was mainly from the, I guess you call 00:19:00it civil defense organizations, not, not from direction from the Army, but they directed them what to do, what things they can do to help the war effort, yeah. It was interesting because, un, unlike stateside, the prejudice toward the Japanese was not as severe. I guess one of the reasons is that we were the majority, we were 40%, nearly 40% of the population. So as I can remember, the first, maybe not even a year, they would you know, call us names and kind of discriminate a little. But being the majority, if they got you know nasty, we 00:20:00would beat them up because... Yeah. I remember fighting with some of my classmates in, if they were extremely discriminatory or say something bad about me, I would take them on. And we being farmers who were stronger, physically you know stronger than the city folks, so...

Anna Takada: Were you going to school in the city then?

James Saiki: Yes. There only one school in our area. It was, yeah. That's interesting too because it was I think a little over five miles, and there was no train station. So we walked to school, to school and back home, about five miles barefooted.

Anna Takada: Do you remember those walks?

James Saiki: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Interesting. Yeah, we did things on the way walking.

Anna Takada: Like what, what were some of those things?

James Saiki: We would often walk along the sugar plantation railroad tracks, and we would pick up the sugar cane that fell off the carts and eat those. For me, that was a delicacy, that was candy for me, because we weren't, you know we couldn't afford buying candy or ice cream or things like that so...

Anna Takada: And would you do that commute with your siblings?

James Saiki: I'm sorry?

Anna Takada: Would you walk that commute with your siblings?

James Saiki: No, I, I just walked with my neighbor, who was my classmate, and just my two brothers above me. Because you know the, the rest of the seven's already out of high school and working. So when the war broke out, it's actually... My, my brother that served in World War II, he just graduated. And then, so there was one, two, three, only four of us in high school or low grades, and three older siblings were out of school and working.

Anna Takada: So I apologize, because I, I keep taking us on some tangents, but before we continue, it would be great if you could tell me, just tell me the 00:23:00names of your siblings, maybe in, in the order so that we can just start using their names. So what was, what was, starting with your eldest brother, what was his name?

James Saiki: Harry.

Anna Takada: And then...

James Saiki: I had names for all of them. Harry, I consider that he was fatherly. And then my second brother was Edward, and he was hospitality. And my third, my sister, Kay, motherly, was like a, like a mother to me. And then Mamoru. I think he's the only one that didn't have an English name. And he was in business, so I call him the entrepreneur. And then came Charles, and he was 00:24:00patriotic, because he served in the 442. And then George, George was a, a protector. He protected me and he helped me. I was the closest to him. And then Robert, who was two years older than I, we had many friendly skirmishes, so... And he was a fighter, he was known as a fighter. In the Navy they used call his nickname as Ricey, from being a rice farmer. And then my you-- my youngest sibling, who's two and a half years younger than, I consider him the baby.

Anna Takada: And what was his name?

James Saiki: Clifton.

Anna Takada: Do you know why your parents gave all of you except for--

James Saiki: I don't think it's my parents. I think either my sister or some of the friends.

Anna Takada: Gave the English names?

James Saiki: Yeah.

Anna Takada: So they give us English name and middle Japanese name. So do you have a Japanese name?

James Saiki: Yeah. T stands for Tamotsu.

Anna Takada: Thank you. I'm, I'm just hoping that this way now we can refer to your siblings by name, and now I have the order, so I'll know who you're talking about. And I'll know their, the words you attached to them too. So I'd, I'd like to kind of go back. So we had just talked about your commute to school, and 00:26:00before that you mentioned how there wasn't a whole lot of prejudice towards you or, or other you know, Japanese classmates because it, there were so many, but you did mention that sometimes you got into a little bit of trouble. I'm wondering if you can tell me about... Like if you remember any instance of, of getting in a conflict with somebody or w--, or what that was like?

James Saiki: Well, I, I think the only type of conflict was you know calling us names, Japs, and things like that. That type of discriminating things, not the 00:27:00real... There weren't any real strong discrimination because being you know, a mixture of nationalities, we, we I think we are like a melting pot, so we got along very well, the families. So, as I mentioned, there was very few discriminatory problems as far as I can remember. Maybe others might have a different...

Anna Takada: And I'm wondering if you can tell me more about the wartime period, and some of your family's experiences during the war. Which, which of your 00:28:00brothers was the scout leader?

James Saiki: My oldest brother.

Anna Takada: Harry? So what were some of the other things that... Like maybe if your family was impacted by the war, how, how did life change during the war, if at all?

James Saiki: You know ironically, for my family, economically and otherwise, I think it was good, because on the farm the, the vegetables, we had better price for the vegetables, and we had very good price for the rice, especially the mochi rice, you know the sweet rice, because they, they couldn't import any 00:29:00here. So, those prices you know, were 10 times what they used to be. So, in that sense, economically we did much better.

Anna Takada: Who were, who were kind of like the customers or who was buying from your family's farm?

James Saiki: I think the rice we... The wholesalers you know bought the whole crop. The vegetables, there was an organization called Farmers Co-op or something of that sort. And so, they bought most of the vegetables. And I think very few stores, or they weren't that many markets or stores anyway. They bought 00:30:00some of it, but the majority of the crops were sent to this one big co-op. And I guess they distributed to the markets or homes that wanted to buy some.

Anna Takada: So you said economically things kind of picked up for your family?

James Saiki: I, I think so, because prior to the war it was very difficult, pre-depression era. And so, as a family... I, I didn't realize it, but I always thought you know we were well-to-do. We had food, you know, but economically, I, I found out that Mom and Dad and, and my sib-- older siblings they really struggled, because Dad be coming to Hawaii to earn some money and go back home, 00:31:00decided to stay in Hawaii. So he felt, and being the eldest son, he felt obligated to support his family in Japan. So, I heard that the majority of our earnings were sent to Japan, and my dad was able to build a very nice home for his younger brother and, and the family in Japan. And those things I didn't realize you know until I became over in high school and talking to them. And I, I even found out at one time that a lot of times the crop was put on consignment, so that they could get loans and things, which I, I never realized 00:32:00that. And then my eldest brother didn't finish... I think eighth or ninth grade he, he quit school and worked for what they called a CCP, conservational organization, which did plant trees and one of, I guess, Roosevelt's programs. So, so he did that, but even not having the education he was the wisest of our family. He took care of all the nitty, nitty-gritty things. And, and so, I really respect... He was more like a father to me. That's why I called him my father. And my second brother, when the war broke out, he, he was good in sheet 00:33:00metal, so he went to work at Pearl Harbor you know. And of, of course you know being... Sugar cane and pine, pineapple were the big industry, and so, every summer we all worked on the pine, in the pineapple fields, harvesting pineapples. And my sister and my mom worked in the pineapple cannery, in which all my female... My girlfriends all worked every summer in the pineapple cannery, which was a good source of income.

Anna Takada: And you said the rest of your siblings at that time were still in 00:34:00school. Is that right? The oldest three were in...

James Saiki: Well, well, there were two above me, above me and myself. I guess four of us were you know, still in school. My, the brother above me... two above me graduated in 1946.

Anna Takada: That's George?

James Saiki: Yes, George. And he was the first... We didn't have a high school at our school then. And he was the first graduate there. And I graduated five years after him in 1950. So most, most of our... The younger siblings participated in some of the sports activities. And even that was limited, because my eldest brother wanted us not to go to practice but come back home to 00:35:00work. But my, my brother George, he was, he wasn't that big, not much bigger than I am, you know 140-145 pounds, but he was a good football player. He was one of the best line players. And then my, the brother above me and myself, we all participated in football. And I think I was the only one that participated in basketball and baseball to try to get out of work. (laughs)

Anna Takada: And so, it sounds like it was, you know it wasn't an unusual, let's say, like schooling experience during the war if you're participating in sports.

James Saiki: You know I, I can't recall anything different, except you know, 00:36:00singing war songs, and buying stamps to support the economy... I forgot what they called it, war, war bonds or something. And I'm not too sure how that helped.

Anna Takada: Do you remember any of the songs that you sang?

James Saiki: Well, the most popular one, "Let's Remember Pearl Harbor". So we, I remember in grammar school we would almost always sing the song at the opening of class.

Anna Takada: So, it was something that at school you had--

James Saiki: Yeah.

Anna Takada: So I, I would, I'd be interested in hearing about... So you said 00:37:00Charles served in the 442, in the 442nd, your brother Charles?

James Saiki: Did I hear about it?

Anna Takada: No. I'm just confirming that Charles was the one who served.

James Saiki: Right.

Anna Takada: And did you say there was another brother that also served?

James Saiki: The other brother, I think it was occupational time in Japan. He was, did some interpreting, MIS.

Anna Takada: And which brother was that?

James Saiki: And then, and then the other brother was just occupational in Japan. That was in '47 after the war ended '46. No, or earlier than that. I'm not sure. Bu they, so, both of them served there. And then the brother above me 00:38:00and myself served in the Korean War. And then my younger brother stayed stateside, he didn't...

Anna Takada: Do you know how old your brothers were when they went into the military service?

James Saiki: Well, my, the one that went to 442 was out of high school. So, he must have been 18 at the most, probably 18 plus, I think. And then...

Anna Takada: And would you happen to remember the year that he joined?

James Saiki: 1942 probably in the... That's when they first you know, called for volunteers, and he volunteered right away. And it was interesting. In his interview he mentioned one of the reasons he volunteered right away is to get 00:39:00out of work. And wow, that's funny. (laughs)

Anna Takada: You two have that in common, you know making the excuses to get out of work.

James Saiki: Yeah.

Anna Takada: Do you remember your either your feelings or maybe your, your parents' feelings about serving in the 442nd? Or, or just gener--

James Saiki: No, no I, I don't think they had any objections. You know, they weren't too expressive about their relationship with Japan. I'm sure they still had you know, deep you know ties and feelings about Japan, but they realized you know, it was wrong what they did. And so, I guess they got semi-Americanized. 00:40:00But I don't hear them expressing outright feelings. But of course, when my brother was in, in the war, of course you know, they were worried about his life, and you know...

Anna Takada: Did you share any of those concerns or, or have any particular feelings about it, as a younger brother?

James Saiki: I'm sorry. What was that?

Anna Takada: Did you have any particular feelings about your brother serving, like as a, as his kid brother?

James Saiki: Oh yeah. Yeah. I was very proud of him serving, yeah. You know, one interesting thing, I don't know if I should mention about like my wife being in 00:41:00California and put into concentration camps. I had very little knowledge of that going on. But later I found out that one of my classmate's dad was put in camp, and another friend from the other part of the island, his dad was-- her dad was put in camp. Of course, all the Buddhist ministers, the teachers, and some of the more politically involved people, they were in business or community groups, they were, many were put in camp, like the, those in the, in California, which I didn't realize. And I didn't realize they were put in camp until my brother, who 00:42:00was training in Mississippi, went one weekend to visit my aunt and my cousin who were in Jerome, Arkansas. And he went to visit them there, and then he wrote to us. And that's the first time I realized that my aunt and cousins were in camp. And then even at, at... It didn't struck me what a camp was like, you know until recently when you know everything was brought out... But they had a camp in Honolulu too, which, which I didn't find out 'till about two years ago. And I used to pass that camp, because my sister lived about two miles from the camp. And nobody knew anything about it...

Anna Takada: So, in your own community, you didn't know of any community leaders 00:43:00who had been--

James Saiki: Well, just one of my classmates'. Yeah. And then of course the, the Buddhist priests and teachers, I knew they were yeah, taken away. Other than that, I didn't realize that there were several other leaders were put in a small camp, even on our, our island. Yeah. Probably more because I was too young to you know... But I, I don't think even the other older people didn't realize it, because they never talked about or mentioned anything.

Anna Takada: But it sounds like there was still... Because it, it was your, your family, extended family, that was on the mainland.

James Saiki: Yeah.

Anna Takada: So, but they had, they hadn't been in touch with your parents? It was just through, through your brother?

James Saiki: Yeah. Yeah.

Anna Takada: Do you know how he, how did he know where to find them? Or how did he...

James Saiki: Well, you know, I think this has been already documented, but the 442 were made up a large number from Hawaii, and half or a portion from the stateside, from camp and all that. And somehow the Hawaii boys' lifestyle and things were much different from the mainland Japanese. So, they, they got into a lot of conflict because... And then when they went to camp, to visit the camp, they hadn't realized why the stateside or mainland Japanese, were that type 00:45:00of... you know, what their feeling were, why they act a certain way. And so, after that they bonded very close, you know.

Anna Takada: Can you explain what some of those conflicts might have been?

James Saiki: Well, you know the Hawaii boys, they loved to... they were loud, liked to drink, they liked to gamble. And, and they were... I guess they said, because our parents and the, the parents from Hawaii usually sent money to them, so they had more money to spend on beer and gambling. Whereas the stateside, their family were in camp and they had no income or anything, so they couldn't send them money because they had very little spending money. So, but that, 00:46:00that's an interesting story about what they went through. So, I heard that they always had big fights prior to you know, knowing what has happened to their parents here. Their parents were in camp and they volunteered to serve, you know?

Anna Takada: Was there any other communication, or do you remember any other communication with your brother while he was serving during the war?

James Saiki: No, mainly where he was and... So he wasn't you know up on the front line. He was in the service committee, so he was, did a lot of transporting. So he didn't do actual hand-to-hand combat.

Anna Takada: So through this, through the war time you were still in school... And then, can you tell me about your memories of the, the war ending, and, and what that was like where you were at in time?

James Saiki: You know the, the only thing that I can think of is, I was happy because my brother you know didn't get hurt and would be coming back. Other than that, I can't recall being... Of course, you know, I was happy that the war ended, but I don't recall doing any celebration or anything.

Anna Takada: It didn't really affect you that much?

James Saiki: Not that much, yeah, except for my brother.

Anna Takada: Mhmm, and what year did you graduate high school?

James Saiki: 1950.

Anna Takada: And, can you tell me a little bit about your experiences after, after school? You mentioned that you served in the Korean War.

James Saiki: Yeah. Yeah. After I graduated, I went one year to the University of Hawaii, and then I volunteered to serve in the Army for three years. One of the reasons is because they, they guaranteed me to go to medical... not medical school, medical lab school. So, I felt, I volunteer, that I was safe from the Korean War. So I'll go stateside, learn to be a lab tech, and serve in a big 00:49:00hospital stateside. And if I was shipped overseas, which I, after I graduated the first thing is overseas assignment. Said, "Ah, I'll probably be in Tokyo at a large hospital." Nothing doing, Tokyo, Korea. Yeah.

Anna Takada: So you, are you saying that some of your college plans were based around trying to...

James Saiki: Well, most of my college peers didn't do what I did, because to stay in school and maintaining your grade points, you are exempt from being drafted. I wasn't in that category, so, so I volunteered to get my choice of you know...

Anna Takada: Okay. I, I apologize, because I don't know too much about the draft for, for that particular war. But--

James Saiki: Oh, yeah. Once, once you're 18, 19, they had a lottery and they keep drafting people. And few were exempt, like going to school, or... I, I forget what the other categories were, they were not in the draft pool. So, they tried to maintain their qualification to be non-draftable and go to school.

Anna Takada: But, but why weren't you exempt if you were in school?

James Saiki: Well, my grades weren't that good. (laughs)

Anna Takada: Okay. So, then what happened? Where, where did you go?

James Saiki: Then I took my training in Honolulu for 16 weeks, and then I went to Fort Sam Houston for half a year of medical technology training. When I graduated from there, I got my orders assignment. It was the Far East, and then...

Anna Takada: And what year was that?

James Saiki: That was in 19... I was, I volunteered in 1952, in February. And I took my training, and then I went to stateside for six months. So, when I was in Korea, it was January or February of '53. That was six months prior to the 00:52:00armistice. So, I served in Korea for six months while we are still at war. And then, after the war ended, I immediately put in for transfer to Japan. And fortunately, I got it right away. So, I spent two years in Japan, in Tokyo, working in a, in the largest lab of the Far East. So, that was a good experience for me.

Anna Takada: Why, what drove you to want to be located there?

James Saiki: Well, being downtown Tokyo and in a very well-known lab school, lab 00:53:00outfit. Yeah. So, there were a lot of interesting work to be done there, to learn more.

Anna Takada: Do you remember... I'm just a little curious to hear about maybe your first impressions, because that was probably the first time you'd ever gone to Japan. Was, was it the first time you'd ever been to Japan?

James Saiki: Yes. Well, no, no. I, I was in Japan in 1934 when I was two years old. Mom took me because I was a baby yet. So, I was the only one in the family that went to Japan until the war.

Anna Takada: Wow. And so why did she... What was the reason for the trip?

James Saiki: I think one of the reasons... I'm not too sure, but I thought it was because of her health. That Dad wanted her to go, you know from 1932 from 00:54:001915. So, there was quite a few years. So, I think for those two reasons she went back and she took me with her. I, I recall very little of that trip. Very little.

Anna Takada: Mhmm. So then, as a, as an adult going to Japan, what was that like for you as a Japanese American from Hawaii?

James Saiki: Yeah, yeah. Well, I was there you know just post Korean War, so things weren't as you know it is today. There were still... There weren't that many big stores, or you know. Because when I went back in 2010, about eight 00:55:00years ago, seven years ago, I couldn't even recognize downtown Tokyo. It was so modern and all that.

Anna Takada: And you were there you know, very close to the, the war as well.

James Saiki: Yeah. They weren't that many you know, modern facilities, even, even the trains, you know?

Anna Takada: And, so, I'm sorry. You said it was six months that you were in Japan?

James Saiki: In Kor--, in Korea.

Anna Takada: In Korea.

James Saiki: Yeah.

Anna Takada: And how long were you in Japa--

James Saiki: Until the war ended. Yeah.

Anna Takada: And how long were you in Japan?

James Saiki: About two years. Almost two years. So, you know my, my three years service was... And I had an oppor-- they wanted me to ree-- reenlist for three more years, but I debated, I almost did. Then I said, "Oh, no, I'd rather go home."

Anna Takada: And in this lab outfit, what kind of work were you doing?

James Saiki: I was in a very different section. I was in parasitology, doing, studying parasites, examining for parasites. And the interesting thing is that we did some work out in the country, in the rice fields, to eradicate the snails that were the carriers for these parasites. And so, we tested chemicals and see 00:57:00how effective it was to kill the, the snails that harbored the parasite. So, we would go like a month, month trip out to the countryside, stay in a nice hotel, good food, and do very little work. (laughs) But back in the main lab, what I had to do was to examine mostly feces and check to see what type of parasites were, medic-- for medical reasons, for treatments, all that. And it was... I don't know what the word to use, but because in Japan, in the Far East, there were, people were infected with all type of parasites. And so, stateside, you 00:58:00know, when you do it, you hardly find anything. But there, every specimen you are bound to find something. So, that made it interesting.

Anna Takada: Was there a particular reason that you... Because it sounds like this was related to your one year at University of Hawaii, like in, I guess if you can call it medicine. Is that what you would call it? I'll start there. Was, what inspired you to take up that study, or that, that role?

James Saiki: Well, you know, ever since I was young, I was, aspired to be a doctor. So, and so, when I went to the university, I realized I, I don't think 00:59:00I, I'll make it. So, the next best thing to be is some kind of occupation in the hospital. So, I, I found out this lab technology, lab tech you know to do the testing of blood and all that. So, that, that's the reason I went in this field and I did it in the army and I got discharged and I continued technical so... And when I finished that, I, I started for the last 40 years in the hospital.

Anna Takada: So, you continued and you were doing some of that work in Japan. And then, you decided to...

James Saiki: Continue, yeah.

Anna Takada: But to leave Japan. You decided to leave Japan.

James Saiki: Oh yeah, to be discharged, yeah.

Anna Takada: Rather, versus reenlisting. So, what, what year was that? And 01:00:00where, where did you end up going?

James Saiki: I, I got discharged in December of '54. It was not quite three years. February would have been my three years commitment.

Anna Takada: And did you go back to Hawaii, or--

James Saiki: Right. So, I stayed there until September of that year, which is '54, I guess. And I, since I was home, I helped on the farm again trying to, trying to decide what to do.

Anna Takada: And then, so what was the next moment to get out of there?

James Saiki: And then, yeah, and I wanted to see the rest of stateside. So, I 01:01:00found a school the furthest east and I found one in Philadelphia. So, I went to school there to get my lab tech certificate.

Anna Takada: What school was that in Philadelphia?

James Saiki: It was called the Franklin School of Arts and Science. It was, it was a technical school. It was a one year program, which I did, studied how to become a lab technician. And I also took x-ray course there. But the interesting thing also, being a lab tech in the army, which I had a lot of training, the technical school was... Well, not a waste of time, but I knew all what they're teaching. In fact, I almost thought that I could teach the teachers, in fact. 01:02:00(laughs) Many a times they would ask me to make the exam for the students.

Anna Takada: Wow. And was that your first time states, in the states?

James Saiki: Well, besides you know, coming to Texas to...

Anna Takada: For training.

James Saiki: Lab, lab school in the army. So, the, the only thing, place I saw while in the statesides was San Antonio, Texas. And I embarked from Seattle. I stayed in Seattle for about a month. But, but from Texas, I, I took the Greyhound and went all up to California to visit my aunt and the cousins in Sacramento and then went up to.

Anna Takada: Okay. So, I didn't realize you, you actually, you had spent a bit of time on the mainland.

James Saiki: Yeah. But not really you know sightseeing, or...

Anna Takada: Mhmm. Can you tell me about a little bit more about that trip? Maybe your first impressions or experiences?

James Saiki: Yeah well, you know, I think it's from San Francisco, Los Angeles, by error, they assigned me to go to Virginia. So, at that time you know they, they put me on a train, a Pullman, so first class. And traveling and you know seeing the mountains and the scenery. That was, impressed me a lot. And then, we stopped in Chicago, but we didn't get off. So, we continued to Virginia. And 01:04:00when I went to Virginia, they said, "Oh, you're going to take medical training. The basic you know to be a first aid man." I said, "Oh no, I spent six weeks of basic." And there was an officer there that was from Hawaii. So, I went to see him and he looked at my record, and said, "No, you know, they made a mistake." So, in about two or three weeks I got on a train and went to Texas. So, but you know, even in Virginia, we didn't have passes to go out to visit that area. So I, all I saw was the camp and then the sightseeing train to Texas.

Anna Takada: What were some of the biggest differences you noticed between 01:05:00stateside and Hawaii? If any?

James Saiki: Well, you know... They were all whites and Blacks. Which the only whites we knew in Hawaii to, were prejudiced to us then because they were the so-called "elite", the rich people who owned all the companies and all that. And, and now, everywhere you look... Of course, I trained with stateside people, so I wasn't that... I, I was also you know surprised about the discrimination of Blacks and Mexicans in Texas. And one interesting thing is one Black and one 01:06:00Mexican were my close friends. And I invited them to go downtown to see movies or whatever, and they always refused to go with me. And I didn't know why until I found out that you know, they couldn't sit in the theater with me.

Anna Takada: Were these friends who are also in the service?

James Saiki: Yeah, yeah. So, that's the first time I really realized about the, the discrimination of the minorities here at stateside, yeah.

Anna Takada: Did you ever experience any prejudice or discrimination on that trip or--

James Saiki: On me?

Anna Takada: Yeah. When you were...

James Saiki: I, I don't think so. I think they accepted the Orientals, I think. I guess they considered us white.

Anna Takada: And so, you said you visited your family in California when you went from Texas up the West Coast. So, I, I imagine this was family that was in camp?

James Saiki: Right. And, they were farmers too. So, they, they went back to the farm.

Anna Takada: Did you... And where, where in California were they?

James Saiki: Sacramento.

Anna Takada: Sacramento. Did you learn anything about their wartime experiences while you were there?

James Saiki: You know I, unfortunately... Because I didn't know either, so I couldn't think of asking them, you know?

Anna Takada: Sure. Did they seem kind of settled back into the farm?

James Saiki: Yeah. By the time I was there they were pretty much settled I 01:08:00think. I don't, I don't recall whether they owned the farm or they... They had a farm before they left, but I think they lost it. And I don't know if they got it back or they're leasing the farm at that time. Yeah. I, I went there mainly just to meet them, and I didn't even visit the farm or anything.

Anna Takada: So, I, I want to backtrack a little bit 'cause like I mentioned, we are, we're also interested in learning about what Chicago was like and what drew you know some Japanese Americans after the war to come here.

James Saiki: Oh, what happened is my brother that was in the 442, when he got 01:09:00discharged, he came to Chicago to go to technical school. And I think he was back in Hawaii while I was still there. He worked for an appliance outfit doing refrigeration repairs and all that thing. And then, with the brother below him, George got out of the army in '48 or '49. He decided to go to Chicago to learn welding, electricity and refrigeration with the intention of coming back and working with his brother and opening up a shop or whatever. But at that time, the economy in Hawaii was very poor. So, my brother told his brother, "Don't 01:10:00come back, stay in Chicago." So, you know he stayed and found a job in Chicago. And so, when I finished school in Philadelphia... No, yeah. I was planning to go back to California to find a job or go back to Hawaii. And my brother being here, I spent Christmas and New Year's with him. And then, I say, "Oh." I look around, there's a lot of hospitals there. So, I found a job with Northwestern and they offered me fifty per-- 50% tuition rebate. And it was right across the street from where I was working. So, I said, "Oh, I'll give it a try." And I found it just a little easier than my first year in college, but somehow I managed to finish and got my bachelor's.

Anna Takada: So, what year was that that you got your bachelor's from Northwestern? What year was that?

James Saiki: That was, oh, I spent six years on that school. So, '57 to '63. Yeah. I think 1963 I graduated.

Anna Takada: So, it was '57 that you came to Chicago?

James Saiki: Yeah.

Anna Takada: Okay.

James Saiki: I've been here 60 years.

Anna Takada: Wow. And where, where had your brothers been living in Chicago?

James Saiki: Uptown, 4800 North. So, I stayed with them for almost three years until I got married. Then, I moved out from their place.

Anna Takada: And what, what was that neighborhood like at that time?

James Saiki: At that time? It wasn't too bad. Not, not like today. Yeah. Because most of the, the Japanese, they started, when they came out of camp, they started in the south side, then they moved up near north, and then they moved to Uptown area and then Skokie and the surrounding suburbs. So, most of our children and the young-- the third generation live in Skokie, Mount Prospect, and all in that area. And I'm a second generation, Nisei, so there's very few of 01:13:00us in North Chicago now where I live. Very few. Or, or most of them have passed away. But the younger, third generation, I, I know just a handful that live in so-called Chicago, except some that live downtown in the, the more affluent ones. But most of them I know in the suburbs.

Anna Takada: Do you know what the reasons were for that shift?

James Saiki: Well, I, I, I guess, again, at that time, there was prejudice. I know when I got married in 1960, I lived in Uptown. And then, when we got 01:14:00married, I tried to, went North Chicago, east Chicago area, and we looked for an apartment. And I know some of the apartments were open because they're advertised and they would say, "Oh no, it's sold, or rented." And then, after having about half a dozen of that, I realized that it's because we were Japanese, they wouldn't. But you know after that, it kind of opened up.

Anna Takada: And that, that seems to be a pretty common experience for people who came from camp in, in the 40s. So, even as late as 1960, it was still difficult to find housing?

James Saiki: Yeah, yeah. I, I mean, certain areas.

Anna Takada: Sure.

James Saiki: Yeah.

Anna Takada: Did, had you had any expectations about what Chicago would be like before you'd moved here?

James Saiki: I'm sorry, what?

Anna Takada: Did you have any expectations about what Chicago would be like before coming?

James Saiki: No, I, I was just passing through. I wanted to see the big city.

Anna Takada: And...

James Saiki: And then I had some friends who were living here too.

Anna Takada: Mhmm. So, you mentioned that there was a Japanese American community here.

James Saiki: Oh yeah. Yeah yeah yeah.

Anna Takada: That there's a number of families.

James Saiki: Yeah. There were quite a few, even Christian churches. I was Buddhist but I was converted perhaps later. But there was about probably one of 01:16:00each denomination, baptist, congregational... I know there were at least six or seven, which we, we had a lot of gatherings together or functions together. And we had a real... And also, they have a golf organization and there was about 10 different golf clubs. And then, then the sports program for the children. And then, at that time, you have to be oriental or married to a, you know... to qualify. Because at that time, our children were still not as tall to compete with the Americans. So, we had this program so that it would be more competitive 01:17:00for them. And so, we had baseball, basketball, volleyball, swimming, track meets. All these teams from these churches or private groups would meet. And so, that, that was very exciting.

Anna Takada: Can you tell me, or can you give me some of the, the names of some of these groups or churches that you were talking about? Like what, what were the, those predominantly Japanese American institutions at that time?

James Saiki: Oh they, they were all, you know.

Anna Takada: Well, what are some of the, their names?

James Saiki: Well, the church I went to, the Church of Christ Presbyterian. And when I first went there in '57, I think there were only two whites. And then, 01:18:00there were the two non-denominational churches. One congregational church, one Methodist Church.

Anna Takada: Do you remember what they were called, these churches?

James Saiki: Well, Lakeside, and Devon and Ravenswood. Those, those were the Christian churches. And then there were one, two... Two large Buddhist church. One was called Midwest, and the other one, the Buddhist Temple of Chicago. That was in Uptown. Midwest was on Menomonee, where, I don't know.

Anna Takada: Lincoln Park.

James Saiki: You, you knew.

Anna Takada: So it sounds like these, well, you said that through church and some of these groups, there was a lot of social activity.

James Saiki: Yeah, that, those are all gone now because the kids are in suburbs and being involved in soccer and school activities. I think they have, they still have a basketball training camp or something going on. That, that's the only thing I can recall now. But it was good for me because I was involved in all the activities, coaching or participating, so, that, that was a good outlet.

Anna Takada: Where did you meet your wife?

James Saiki: At church.

Anna Takada: At church. Can you tell me a little bit more about... Well, let's see. You were married in '60?

James Saiki: 1960.

Anna Takada: In 1960, so you two had met. Was it at just at a church service, or--

James Saiki: The wedding?

Anna Takada: No, I'm sorry, where you met.

James Saiki: Well, both my brother and his wife, my sister-in-law, they're very devout Christians. My brother sang in the choir and my sister-in-law was the organist. So the first Friday I was there, it was choir practice, so not no choice, but you know, I went to there. And then Sunday they, they were going to church chorus, and I said, "I'll go with them." And I've been doing that ever 01:21:00since. And then we had North minister's organization, which was all singles. So we, we got our own picnics and outings, about 15, 20 of us. And so that's how.

Anna Takada: After you were married, did you stay in Uptown?

James Saiki: Yes, I spent three years on Lawrence and Hermitage. And the reason I got there, because one of our members had a three flat apartment, and so you know, they, they opened it up to me. So I stayed there three years and then a three flat building on Winthrop and Buren was available, and my friend asked me 01:22:00if I was interested to buy it. Financially, I was, I could have bought it, but somehow it was only $1,000 down. And then I took out a second mortgage, and so you know that's the only reason I could afford it. So we were there 10 years and I, I'm not cut out to be a land, landlord. And, I'm not good at fixing things and all that. After 10 years, I'm going to get rid of it. No, yeah, I wanted to get rid of it much earlier, but one of my friends that worked for me in the lab said, "Hey, James, you want to buy my house?" "Buy your house?" he said, "We're 01:23:00going to sell it." So I went over to look at it you and it is in Budlong Woods. And oh, he was kind of attractive and the price wasn't you know that high at that time just before the economy run out. And so I said, "Okay." So I got rid of the building. So I stayed there from '75 until three years ago.

Anna Takada: Wow.

James Saiki: Over 25, 30 years there. And so I'm in a senior apartment now.

Anna Takada: And when you first came to Chicago, did you notice or were there other like Japanese American businesses or grocery stores?

James Saiki: Oh yeah, yeah. Some of them are still around, grocery stores. And 01:24:00there were a few, I guess souvenir shops. I don't know if they still, I don't think they're still around.

Anna Takada: What areas would were they in or what were some of--

James Saiki: I think they were mostly on Clark Street, around 300 North, all the way up there. I know they were about three or four in that area, grocery stores and restaurants by like Wrigley Field. I'm familiar with that place because our church is half a block south of the ballpark.

Anna Takada: And if you were to describe what the Japanese American community was like kind of around your, the earlier days that you were here?

James Saiki: As I mentioned, I, the only thing was the sports program that I, I was involved in, in our church. Other than that, I, I wasn't active in the JACL or JASC. So I was, most of my time was devoted to church, church activities.

Anna Takada: Did you have any children?

James Saiki: Yeah, I have two, two boys. I lost my elder son two years ago.

Anna Takada: Oh, I'm sorry.

James Saiki: He was fifty, 53 years old. And my youngest son is eight years younger and he, they both went to University of Illinois. And my youngest son is a physical therapist and the wife is medical research. And so she was offer-- 01:26:00she was at Abbott, and she offered the job in California, a real good job. So they moved when my younger son-- my younger grandson was nine months old, to California, and they've been there ever since.

Anna Takada: So the, the apartment that you would have-- or, where you would've been raising them, which home that you mentioned to me did you raise them?

James Saiki: My, my children?

Anna Takada: Yes.

James Saiki: Well, the, the first, my older son was at the Hermitage and then Winthrop, and then the home I bought, or that they both, you know, and then they 01:27:00both left home.

Anna Takada: What schools did they go to?

James Saiki: Well, both of them went to Goudy, that's on Buren and Winthrop at the grammar school. And my oldest son went to Lane Tech and my youngest son went to Lincoln Park, Lincoln Park yeah.

Anna Takada: Did they also go to, to church and maybe, were they involved in the sports programs?

James Saiki: Right, they were both, both very involved.

Anna Takada: And you mentioned that you, the sports program. It was the athletic association, was it the Chicago Nisei?

James Saiki: For the Chicago, yes, we participated in that. And also, I was very involved with the Chicago Golf, Golf Association.

Anna Takada: Can you tell me a little bit more about those, maybe what your roles were or what you would--

James Saiki: Well, in the Chicago Golf Association, gee, probably in 1960 I got... When I first went to our church, we had just our church group and we played on Saturday. And then in order to play with the other groups, we joined the so-called Nisei golf and we had 10 of 'em. And I got involved right away and I, I did all the lineup and score keeping and the prize distribution for almost 01:29:0030 years. So I knew almost hundreds of golfer-- Nisei golfers. And then for the sports program for NCAA, I, I played in the men's baseball and volleyball. And I coached my, my two sons when my oldest son was 10, 10 years until he graduated high school. And then my youngest son being eight years younger, he began, so I, I was a coach for the baseball team all those years.

Anna Takada: And why was that, I mean given that you were so involved, why is that something that was important to you, or that you were, or that made you interested?

James Saiki: Well, the church is because you know, my faith, the baseball, because of my two sons, and for the golf, because I love golf. And I love to play volleyball, so I was involved in events. In fact, our team almost organized because volleyball wasn't that popular at that time.

Anna Takada: So we just have a, a few minutes left. I, there were a couple of questions that I did want to come back to, if that's okay with you. I guess one 01:31:00thing I, I would be curious to know about is, as, of course as you know, a lot of, a lot of folks from the Japanese American community came to Chicago during and very closely after the war.

James Saiki: Yeah.

Anna Takada: And many of whom also went through this camp experience, which you hadn't known about or obviously experienced yourself. I'd be curious to know how, like what that was like for you to learn about what had happened, because it you know, it affected not only your own family but your wife as well. Can you just tell me a little bit more about what that was like to learn about?

James Saiki: It, you know, I don't know what the word to use, but unbelievable, or I just can't imagine something like that happened. Yeah, list-- you know listening to those who are involved in camp, and, and then when they had redress hearing at the--

Anna Takada: Northeastern.

James Saiki: Northeastern, I went to see that. And that, I really learned a lot listening to the testimonies and that.

Anna Takada: What made you want to go listen to the hearings? Or how did you--

James Saiki: Because I, I wanted to, to learn more because I knew just, just very little of what had happened. Yeah. And so you know, it really opened my 01:33:00eyes, listening to it. And I guess it, it actually again, drew me closer to my mainland peers you know?

Anna Takada: Had you learned from, from your wife about her own family experiences, or was that something--

James Saiki: Well yeah, she was so young, so she, she don't remember very little because she's what, eight years old, seven and a half. So she, only thing she learned-- remembered playing, so it was fun time. And then I really didn't get a chance to talk too much to her mom and dad about camp, which I have or, I should've, but I didn't.

Anna Takada: And I'm wondering if, if you experienced, because so many people in Chicago had gone, of course not-- You know, it wasn't like everybody came from camp, but a lot of people did.

James Saiki: Yeah, mhmm.

Anna Takada: Did you ever notice like any, any diff-- like in interacting with people who had been in camp?

James Saiki: In camp? You know I, I've never had you know, talked to even like close friends, very little. The only one person who was one of those No-No Boys, I heard a lot of his experience and why he you know did what he did, which you 01:35:00know I could understand why and all that. And a lot of the camp experience, of course, you know, Jean, she's in our church and I see her two or three times a week. And so she's been telling us all the different programs that she's involved in. And I went to several of those you know, so I learned a lot from that. Yeah.

Anna Takada: One thing that I like to ask people toward the end of the conversation is, is about kind of your, your legacy. So like, with your, with 01:36:00your son or, or grandchildren, you know what is, if you could leave something behind, some kind of message or anything with your, with your family or future generations, what's something you would want to, to pass on?

James Saiki: Well you know, I grew up in a family that were very close, you know we supported one another. I, I can't recall fighting or saying bad things to my brothers, all, even up to today. And so I hope and I'm sure that both my sons I've taken to our family functions and they realize how our, our family 01:37:00functions. And I think both of them are trying to carry on that tradition about being open, being friendly, being hospitable, being caring. And both of my sons are involved with us in church, so they're very devout Christians and both my grandsons are very devout. So hopefully, they too, from their mom and dad... And we have a so-called Saiki reunion every two to five years. And I just came back from one last week, we had 81 people just from my clan. And I, even that, I can 01:38:00sense that all the cousins, grandsons, grandcousins know each other you know? There's 22 fifth generation, 58 thir-- fourth generation, and about 50 third generation. There's only seven of us second generation left, but you know, they come from Utah, Arizona, Seattle, Oregon and Chicago and Hawaii. And most of them know each other, they you know, they keep corresponding. And through these activities, they get together. And that's something that I'm grateful for, my 01:39:00upbringing, because my eldest brother was that type, caring and inviting people. All the functions in Hawaii, most of the time they came to our house, New Years and all the big functions. And our home was always open you know? And mom and dad, although their education was very limited, at least they could read and write and a lot of the others could barely read and write. So they would come to our house to have their letters read or have mom and dad write letters to them, or if they needed any counseling, I know they always came to see mom and dad. So you know, I grew up in that type of atmosphere, so hopefully I can carry on that tradition. I've tried to, anyway. (laughs)

Anna Takada: Well, before we wrap up, is there anything else that you would like to share, or anything I may have missed in this conversation?

James Saiki: Not really. I think I said most of what I want, maybe too much. (laughs)

Anna Takada: Thank you so much for coming in and taking the time to speak with me. Appreciate it.

James Saiki: Yeah, thank you.