Shikami, James (10/25/2017)

Anna Takada: Could you just state your full name?

James Shikami: Full name is James Y Shikami.

Anna Takada: And, where and when were you born?

James Shikami: I was born in October 27th, 1931.

Anna Takada: And where were you born?

James Shikami: In Los Angeles.

Anna Takada: And can you tell me a little bit about your hometown, what it was like growing up in LA?

James Shikami: Well, actually where I, my family lived was in Santa Monica, California. We had a very large nursery, it was almost a block square, at 17th and Wilshire Boulevard, in California. And it was a, a interesting time, 00:01:00primarily because we had carried all kinds of plants and shrubbery, and even banana trees. We had a big... It was like a caged area with the glass. And in there were the banana trees. And it was fun because to go in there, there'd be all kinds of, of bugs of all sorts. And we, my brothers and I, we made slingshots out of wire and we would wad up paper and we would shoot at the different spiders hoping to strike them. So it was a fun time there. And--

Anna Takada: How many brothers did you have or siblings?

James Shikami: I, my father was like a time clock, every two years there would be someone new. And so I had four sisters first and then the three brothers, and I was the youngest. And so it happened that I being the youngest, I really didn't have to do too much except enjoy myself in the surroundings. And my older brother, Reggie, he at a early age really took responsibility. And even without a driver's license, at, just going onto 15, he would take our International truck to deliver trees and shrubbery to our customers. And he would always call 00:03:00several of his friends who immediately came over to help. He had that com-commanding type of, of power to, to convince others to help him. And so he would get into his truck with everything, and he, you can hear the tires really wheel around, and he would go and do the work. And so he really amongst everyone, and they all looked upon him as quite a person and respected him.

Anna Takada: Did you ever join him in those rides?

James Shikami: No, I didn't. Sometimes my other brother above me would join him, but he didn't like to do the kind of work that he was doing, but he was forced to go. And I, luckily being the youngest, I stayed home and he would get 00:04:00something for me as a confectionary item that he would always drop off. So, I was the baby and I was treated that way.

Anna Takada: And so the, the eldest daughter, what year was she born? Or what was kind of like the age range?

James Shikami: Well, it was about every two years apart. So, I would think going back, what would that be? 1931? It must have been in the 20s, right? Early 20s, maybe.

Anna Takada: Or maybe even--

James Shikami: Maybe even earlier.

Anna Takada: Yeah.

James Shikami: It was, I'm not sure, I'm not...

Anna Takada: And your parents, where were they from originally?

James Shikami: My father was from a suburb, suburb of Nagoya, and my mother was from Matsuyama. My father's father was the mayor of the town, and he was also a sumo king of that area, and, which meant that my father would have to take over that same position and he didn't think that would be fun and it wouldn't be his character. So that's when he asked a friend of his to see if he could go to America. And eventually he did go. My mother in Matsuyama, her parents had a very nice hotel. And the mother passed away while she was fairly young, in, she 00:06:00was in high school. And she was going to a... I think it was a Congregational church school. But then she helped her, her father with the administration of the h- of the hotel. And eventually the two met, and baishakunin, they, they were married. But my father has an interesting story because when he came to the United States, he ended up at a farm orchard combination near San Francisco. And 00:07:00the owner got to like him very much. And after about three years, he said he's selling a portion of his orchard to him. Now being Japanese, he couldn't own anything, but in paper he had made it out that this was his property. And then about, I think it was, and I'm, I'm not sure I've been told this, but about another three years, he decided he wanted to leave to go to Los Angeles to see what opportunities would be there. And the owner of the facilities at the farm, he said, "Well, you can sell me back the property." So he had the fair market 00:08:00value, he gave him-- my dad the money so that when he went to Los Angeles, he'd have money to use. And my father looking around, he found that the grocery stores at that time had items that were staple items like flour and salt and all kinds of goods for the kitchen. But they didn't have fresh fruits or vegetables. And therefore he talked to the manager of the store or the owner of the store and said, "Would it be acceptable for me to put fresh vegetables and, and fruits on the sidewalk right in front of your store? So as the customers come through, 00:09:00they can also see that you have all of these things, they don't have to go to a, to a, a vegetable stand to get it, they can get it all here." And so they agreed on a certain percent and the whole thing worked out very nicely. So then my dad opened up another one and he had a manager take care of that. And then he had, he ended up with about, I think below or seven or eight of these venues. And he was making very good money. And at that time, a friend of his from Japan who had just gotten his geology degree, came and visited with Dad. And Dad asked him, because Rockefeller was making oil at that time. And so he asked the gentleman 00:10:00to go look for oil. And so he came back and he said, "In the Mojave Desert, there's definitely oil." And so my dad sold all of his stores, his fruit stands and, and vegetable stands. And he got three others, Japanese, to put money together. And they hired an engineer and a person that was a, an expert in oil drilling, and they went into the Mojave Desert and they dug for oil. Well, when they struck oil, I was born, and that's why my middle name is Yuji, Y-U-J-I, 00:11:00which is the river of oil. And it was a success, we were, oil was coming, it was great. Then, within a month, the professional driller and the engineer in the evening were killed. And my father thought it was probably something that Rockefeller's people had something to do with it, but who knows? Anyway, all of a sudden the oil had some mixtures of water and things that they didn't know how to overcome. And so the whole thing collapsed. And so my father lost everything, he had to start all over again. And then he went into the field that most 00:12:00Japanese were doing at that time was being gardeners. And that's what he did. He, he had big estates that he took over, Paul Muni's estate along the beach. And really worked hard, I don't know how he ever did it, because in those days there was large lawns and they had, he had to push it by hand, hand mower. And I don't, it seemed almost impossible that he could do it, but he did it. And he eventually was able to put enough funds together to buy a small nursery. And then later to get our nursery at 17th and Wilshire Boulevard in California. So he, he was a leader. He, he also helped found the Japanese school in Santa 00:13:00Monica. And so we had to go to Japanese school every day right after American school. We would leave there at 3:00, we get to Japanese school at 3:30, we'd study till 6:30, and then half-day on Saturday. And s-- and then, what was it, I was nine years old, I, I joined the Kendo group. So I was with the, ended up with the traveling group of Kendo in our, from our school. And so we traveled and competed against other gakuens, other schools, Japanese schools, all along the southern California area. So I had a good learning experience there as well, 00:14:00but it was a, it was a good time.

Anna Takada: Sounds like you had a, a busy schedule as a child--

James Shikami: Yes, right.

Anna Takada: Between school, Japanese school and Kendo.

James Shikami: Yeah, I w-- I was lucky in that leaving Amer-- the American school, I would go with my friend Ben Goto, his home was close to the school. So we would drop there. And his mother always had onigiri, a little round onigiri with some kind of treat in the center. And so we each had one of those before we got to school. So it was a, yeah, it was a good time.

Anna Takada: And so it sounds like there were a lot of other... There was quite a Japanese American community there--

James Shikami: In Santa Monica, there, there were quite a few. We were basically 00:15:00separated from an enclave of them because we had our big nursery and we were slightly away. But yes, there were a number of... And enough to have a school that I think at that time, we must have had somewhere about 100 parents involved with their children. And we used to have movie nights every Saturday at the gakuen, at the school. And so it was, it was fun.

Anna Takada: And how, how did things change for, for you and your family after the attack of Pearl Harbor? Do you remember that day?

James Shikami: Yes. That was, I think it was, if I recall, I think it was a 00:16:00Sunday, right? December 7th. And Sunday at our house, my sisters all had boyfriends. They would all come over on Sunday. And they really treasured my mother's so, so-called chicken, it wasn't chicken, it was rabbit. But they didn't know, and we didn't tell them. We grew rabbits in our nursery in a little area, and so we had rabbits. And so they would come and they, they were waiting for that meal. And we would play games and everything. And I loved to play cards, and so we would play card games. And then it got to the point where they 00:17:00talked to my sisters and says they didn't think I should play because they said, "Your brother cheats." And I said, "Wait a minute, I don't cheat, I'm just better than you." But they got their way, so I stayed out of the, out of that. But they came over every Sunday, and that's when we heard that it had happened. And I thought that my school friends would be very angry and would call me names. But my school friends who I was very close to, they never called me a Jap. And in fact, they were really, friendly as before. And some of them, my 00:18:00closest friends said that they would like to go with me to the camp, primarily because they had heard that was a, in a valley with beautiful mountains that had snow caps on it. And the valley had all kinds of fruit trees, and it had a little river, it had everything that a kid would want. So they, they said they'd like to go with me. And I said, "Well, you're not Japanese so you won't be able to go." But I didn't feel that kind of pressure at school, nor did I see it when I went to grocery shopping with my sister at Rogers, at the supermarket store. I didn't feel any kind of people ready to call me names, they may have looked at me a little strange at first, but I didn't experience that like many others had. 00:19:00And even my wife was talking about their saying, "Well, they called themselves Chinese." Well, we didn't feel that pressure, at least I didn't. So things didn't change that much. And in the home, of course, my mother and father sat down and they went through a lot of our papers, papers that we had, and photographs, et cetera. And they burned a lot of things that they thought might not be good at this time. And one was, I think their cousin who was in the military and had pictures of him and he was some kind of officer. So those things were taken care of. And we were kind of restricted in terms of curfew, so 00:20:00that, you know, we had to live with. And, so that was the situation until we saw the notices on the, on the different poles, I don't know what poles they were, but anyway, there were notices of, that we would have to go to camp.

Anna Takada: Do you remember seeing those notices as a child?

James Shikami: I saw a couple, and so I knew what was going to happen. And my oldest sister, Mabel, after reading that and the further instructions, she went to JC Penny department store, and bought large cardboard suitcases for each of 00:21:00us because you can only carry, you know, take what you can carry. And so that was what we had. So we were in a way set to go. Our nursery, which we had rented because we couldn't own, we were about to purchase it, we had enough money to purchase it. And our oldest daughter, Mabel, had just turned 21. And so we could put the property under her name as an American citizen. So we were going through the negotiations, my parents were with our lawyer, a fantastic lawyer from Encino, California who really liked our family. So he was putting things 00:22:00together and then the war came. And so that killed everything. And fortunately, my parents had put money into the Japanese bank, but they also put money into an American bank. The Japanese bank money, of course, was not available at all, that was taken away, but we, they still had the American bank. So we were fortunate as a family that my parents had money when we went to camp. And our lawyer in Encino, he handled that. So anytime we needed money from that bank, he had the right to issue a check and send the money to camp, to, to handle anything that we might need. So, and, and then during this time, many Japanese 00:23:00families were visited by the FBI. And many of the fathers were sent. The FBI came to our nursery, and I remember that 'cause I was there when they did come. And, but my father was also a volunteer for the Santa Monica Red Cross organization. And so when the FBI came, they said they came to tell him not to worry, that they are not in any way going to send him anywhere, that they respect what he has done in the community. And so they then left, so he didn't 00:24:00have to worry about going to, to a prison or being sent to a far away detention center. So in that way, that was good. We, so we had to sell stuff that we owned. We had a brand-new International Harvester truck, brand new. We had a big, that was a Packard convertible. That, my dad loved cars, and he had different new cars. So we had to get, get rid of them. And so that was a trying period, because you're not going to get much for it when they know that you're going to have to go to camp. And then so finally we sold a lot of our materials and equipment to a prospector from Oregon who paid I think it was $700 for 00:25:00everything, and that was it. But, yeah it was a trying time, but it had to be.

Anna Takada: Do you remember your thoughts or reactions at the time as a child? Were you pretty aware of everything that was going on?

James Shikami: Well, yeah, I was aware primarily because at that time the, in Southern California, there were reports that Japanese were about to invade California in submarines, attack Los Angeles. And they did-- said, they said, 00:26:00and I am not sure, but they said they captured small submarines, like a three-man submarines with Japanese soldiers inside. And there were planes that flew over that they had search lights going on because they didn't know for sure if it was American or Japanese. So there was a lot of commotion I remember at that time. And so basically, I knew what was happening and I knew I had to be careful. But I think I wasn't as much afraid primarily because at school I found the environment not really changed that much. This thing happened though, in 00:27:00December, after the war started, I had developed pains in my stomach. And, so happened that my second sister, Helen, was getting married to Mike Hori, and they were to have the celebration in Los Angeles. And I was so sick that a doctor had come and said that I would need to have further examination at the hospital. But, but my parents and everybody went to the wedding ceremony in Los, Los Angeles, except my third sister, Ruth, who said that she would stay behind and she would call the doctor if I had even more pains. And then the doctor did 00:28:00come and he said, "As before, you have to go to the hospital." And so I went to the hospit-- they took me to the hospital and they had said the appendicitis had broken and they had to operate. But my parents weren't there, and my sister was younger than 21, Ruth. And so they said, "But we need authorization." And but they, it was almost an impossibility. So, they finally, I think and I don't know how this happened, but I think they finally made contact with my mother in Los Angeles and was able to get authorization. And so the operation was done, 00:29:00everything. And I was in the hospital room and, in recovery. And the next day I received presents. And apparently a older gentleman was in the hospital and he had heard about my situation. And he made sure that I felt welcome, that even though the war had occurred, he, he said, "I want you to know you have a friend." And he said, "I hope you get well quickly." And he sent the gift to me. So, almost in every instance, the classroom, what happened at the, after the surgery, kind of, you know it gave me a feeling of, of hope that things would be okay. And, so that was, I think that was in December. And then in, I think was 00:30:00it, April? It took that long before we went to camp. And there were others that went to Manzanar who helped build the barracks, et cetera, but we were the later ones that went. And so one morning we went to Venice, California and got on a bus and there was a convoy of buses. And the military trucks were in front and back and off we went to Manzanar, which was 220 miles northwest ah--northeast of Los Angeles.

Anna Takada: And, so your family went straight to Manzanar?

James Shikami: Yes, we didn't go to a relocation center, we went straight to 00:31:00Manzanar. So it was, it was a long drive. And I'll always remember the, the bus stopped twice along as we traveled and stopped twice in the desert area and everybody got off to relieve themselves. And it was really tragic for the females, because you're out in the desert, you know, us little ones 10 years old, we didn't care, you just did it, and, but it was quite a scene. But it was done, and we eventually got to Manzanar around dusk. And when we got there, my oldest sister, Mabel, got off the bus, went to the table to get our instructions 00:32:00in terms of the block number and the barrack number and the room number that we're assigned to. And then we, we all got off the bus and we found our luggage, and we had to put that, each suitcase on the table for the military police to look at it and look at everything so that there was no contraband items, cameras and knives and shortwave radios, et cetera. So after that was done, we were put on trucks and we were driven to a big building, and at that building we were given canvas bags and we had to fill them with straw, and that became our, our mattress. And then they gave us a large tin cup, a small tin cup, and utensils. And then we were driven to our block num-- block, and then to our barrack, and 00:33:00we were assigned room number two. And room number one was an office to be used by the block manager who was eventually chosen. So we were room number two, 20-by-25 foot area. And the b-- the cots were there, there were I think two blankets per cot and a sheet and a small pillow. And we had one light for the whole area hanging from the ceiling. And we had a kerosene stove, a, a round kerosene stove in the center. And that was our living for our camp years. And unlike many other families where their father may have been quite creative and 00:34:00good with their hands, my father was more of a leader and he didn't have any talent as far as his hands, and therefore we had no benches. We had really, we had our cots and we had the kerosene stove, we didn't have cupboards, we didn't, he didn't make anything. So our r-- our room was bare. So we are one of the probably 20% of the, of the rooms that had nothing. So it, I think it showed a different kind of living compared to others.

Anna Takada: And so were you with, was the whole family together?

James Shikami: Yes, all together initially. And then soon, Mabel, the oldest 00:35:00left, and Ruth left soon thereafter to join their husbands who were drafted into the military. And they, the two of them, the two men, Paul and Sada, were stationed at, golly, it were, it was a base in, I believe in Kansas. And so they joined them there. And then about a year later, Florence, the youngest daughter joined her husband in Lexington, Kentucky, at another military base where he was 00:36:00a soldier. They eventually, all three of 'em ended up in Mississippi for the 442nd, but they were initially separated. And the other sister, second sister, Helen, she, the one that just got married right after the war. She came to Manzanar, so she was in another block from us.

Anna Takada: With her husband?

James Shikami: Yes, mhmm.

Anna Takada: And, so how long... At what point did they start moving, your sisters?

James Shikami: My sisters? Well--

Anna Takada: Was it before the end of the war?

James Shikami: Oh, oh, they, they left, Mabel left within a month to join her husband. And then it was, I think must have been a good six months later, Ruth 00:37:00went and went to the same camp to her, her husband's military establishment also in Kansas. And, and then it was a year after that that Florence left to join Karl in Lexington. So, so that left basically my oldest brother, Reggie, and of course my sister Helen in a different block, Joe, the one right above me and myself were in camp in our, in our room. And my father was chosen as block manager. And he then was on the camp council. And he also was the Red Cross 00:38:00chairman in camp as well. And he, everybody seemed to really trust him. And therefore when there were problems, the camp council, I remember they asked my father to, at one time to take over the general store, management of the general store because the manager of the general store had left camp to go to Chicago, took amounts, a large amount of money to buy goods and never came back. And there was an uproar in camp. And so the council asked my dad to take over the leadership of, of the general store. And when he took over the leadership and 00:39:00people in the community found that he became the leader, things slowly went back to normal. And then he, they came up, they assigned a new general manager leader, and he then left that position because he didn't really want to be there anyway, but he had to be. The second time they requested his service from the camp council was that the Kibei young group at one time had decided that they wanted to deface women who were engaged to American soldiers, Japanese American soldiers. And so he had to go to the Kibei group a number of times and talk to 00:40:00them about why, that this should not be done. And the honor of Japanese would be really affected. Anyway, he was able to convince them to not perform the task and to even sign a pledge that they would not. That was the second thing. And then the, I think, oh, the third thing was not a camp council thing, but it was something within our block, and I, I think it showed the character of my dad. In camp, they were starting to lay linoleum on the floors. So block 17 had a date and they were going to come in and they were going to lay the lino, linoleum and 00:41:00they're going to go by barrack, by barrack, by barrack, et cetera. And some in the block, in our block 17, came to my father and said, "We don't, we think you should not have any linoleum laid down for this family in barrack something, in room number, because they're Eta." They are the lowest form within Japanese society, they ostracize them. And my father said, "No, the linoleum is going to be placed just as scheduled, one by one, and there won't be any interruptions." And that their argument holds nothing in terms of how he will handle the 00:42:00situation. So he, he believed in doing things correctly, and he was willing to stand up to those who felt that discrimination was important. So that showed another side of him. And so the camp council, they, they knew who, who the leader was within their group that they could lean on. So, and even as a little child, I knew these things were happening 'cause I could hear my father talk to my mother and there's...

Anna Takada: And so you, understandably so, you seem to have a lot of memories of your father and kind of the role that he took on in, in camp. What are some 00:43:00of your, your memories of your mother and, and what was she like?

James Shikami: My mother is, was the cog that held everybody together, even when we had the nursery, she was the one that was handling the finances. And she would really, my dad-- because everything was going so well, my dad would, he's the type of person that if someone came to him and it was very cold or rainy and he didn't have a raincoat, he would take his own raincoat and give it to him. And he would also do the same thing with finances, he would donate money to this 00:44:00cause and that cause and my mother keeping the books and everything, she finally would have to tell him you know, "It's nice, it's good everything you're doing, but there are limitations." And so she kind of managed that. And also in terms of discipline for us, all she had to do was say one word and we would listen. My father is so busy doing other things. And so the business and the family thing, the mother of course, was the one that we all looked up to. And when we went to camp, she didn't show any animosity to what had happened, it, it's just happened. And she knew the reason why we were going, because of the war. And in 00:45:00some, in some way she made the most of it in camp. She helped organize women to... She knew quite a bit of sewing from back in Japan, so she was teaching them how to sew so they can, they can create things in camp for the children. And then she learned how to make paper flowers in camp, she learned how to make certain types of Japanese desserts. I mean, she was willing to go and learn anything and everything that was available. And then she also became a very good 00:46:00Buddha print, print, you know, brush print. And in fact, in our home now in Glenview, we have a couple of her, her writings in Buddha and with special meaning to us, so she learned that as well. So she was one that was always willing to learn and always willing to help others. And for us children, I'm sure she told the same story to the others, but she sat me down and, and she came from a very religious background with the congregational church, and she said that, you know, "In life you're going to be climbing a mountain, all kinds of choices." And she says, "It's up to you to make the choices that you feel are 00:47:00right." And she says, "When it comes to religion, you don't have to follow my religion. I want you to decide for yourself what you want out of life. And if religion is a part that you would like, then you have to find that religion." So she says, "It's up to you." And that's how I'm sure, 'cause my father on the other hand, he had an experience in San Francisco with a Methodist church after the earthquake, they seemed to treat him very nicely to overcome that. And so he 00:48:00found a First Methodist church in Santa Monica, and he made friends with that minister and that minister came in his car to pick myself and my other brother, Joe, to go to church. And we didn't care going to church, but we had to go because he would pick us up. Now, First Methodist is the kind of church that you have to on Sunday take life on a, as a very religious person. So you cannot look at comics, you cannot look at-- go to a movie, do anything that's really fun and exciting. You had to be calm and be looking at ways as a religious person should look at it. And that was totally opposite of our character, so we struggled 00:49:00through that. And I think even today, my children, I have given them the same instructions, that it's their choice what they do. There are many choices. So they all went to Christ Church of Chicago when they were young, but I don't think any of them have stayed with religion per se. They, I think they have learned the feelings that we have, both Lois and I, that the most important thing is to show love, compassion, and humility as the main elements of one's 00:50:00life. Although Lois, my wife is very, very happy with, with her life with Christ Church of Chicago, she's very involved with it. I was very involved with it, I was a moderator three times. I found the church that they are in now. I had to search for that church, but I no longer am part of it as, as an official part of it, I still help them and everything.

Anna Takada: When in camp at Manzanar, was, were you practicing? Was there a church in camp?

James Shikami: Yes, I went to the Protestant, well, they had a, more of a non-denominational Protestant type of church, which I went to on occasions. I also went to a Catholic church on occasion. And I went to those churches from a selfish standpoint because on certain days they had treats. And for a youngster, my friend and I would go and we would go and sit through the whole program. And at the end of the program, of course, there were treats and especially they would give lots of treats to the young ones. So it was a good experience.

Anna Takada: One thing I wanted to ask you was about your first impressions of, of Manzanar and just entering that fully new...

James Shikami: Well, after settling into our room. And, the first three nights we had roll call, military officer would come, call our name, we would have to stand in front of our room outside. And after all of the names were called, nine of us would be standing, and then he would excuse us and said he'll be back the next night. So, I knew we, and of course you can see the towers with the search lights and the wires, and so you knew that you, you were there incarcerated, 00:53:00okay. But during the day when you wake up, you see a, a different landscape. The Sierra Nevadas were very high, and they were always snow-capped. And so it was beautiful, we were in a valley. And there were fruit trees, not many of them, but there were fruit trees. I think they were apples and peaches, and, but they weren't really treated well, so they didn't give that much fruit, but a little bit. They were there. They had the Inyo Mountains on the opposite side, which had no snow on it, it wasn't quite as high, but it was high. And so we were surrounded by mountains in, in this valley. And so it was, it was, I thought, a 00:54:00beautiful place, they had a little stream at one corner and it, it hit a, sort of a well. So it created a, a small area where we could jump in and we could do our little swimming around in this little area. So you had desert, you had beautiful mountains, you had a little stream of water. It was, it was from a nature standpoint, it was nice, it was... It was something to look at. But then when the wind blew the wind, and they were strong winds, it would pick up the 00:55:00sand and the sage brush and they'd be flying. And the barracks were not built to withstand that kind of pressure 'cause the windows were not tight. And so the room would be clogged with dust, and you'd have to wet towels and whirl it around in the room to try to stop the dust from covering the whole room. And then the cleanup after that was really very difficult. But I being the youngest was able to just watch them do the work, so it wasn't so bad. But yeah, the camp was beautiful, it had things that I think made life fun for the youngster, for myself. With just that in the winter it was very cold, it could be very cold, 00:56:00very... And then in the summer it could be very hot, extremely hot--

Anna Takada: How long was your family there?

James Shikami: Huh?

Anna Takada: How long was your family there?

James Shikami: Our family was there, let's see, it would be... Probably a little over three years. So I was 10 and I, I'd left just going on to 13, I guess it was, yeah, so...

Anna Takada: And where did you go from camp?

James Shikami: From camp, we went to Chicago because my three sisters that were 00:57:00in Cincinnati with their husbands were at the 442nd and one was killed rescuing the Texas lost batallion. That same night, Paul was killed. Sada ended up with shrapnel all over his body. Karl had been shot, wounded in the arm and shoulder. And they... Just all at the same time frame. And it was something that I'll always remember because my mother in camp, one early morning, she was sitting up on her bed and she was crying and praying, and I got up out of bed and I went to 00:58:00her and I said, you know, "What's happening? What's wrong?" And she told me that the, the war in France, Mabel's husband was killed. And Sada and Karl were injured. She had seen it visually in her, in her mind. And it was about a month later that she received information from Mabel, what had happened. And it was similar to what she had envisioned. And so those three, Mabel, Ruth, and 00:59:00Florence, they came to Chicago after that. And my other sister, Helen, and her husband Mike also had left and came to Chicago. And my brother Reggie left and came to Chicago, but then he beca-- he was drafted, so he had to go in the Army, to eventually to MIS training. But the five of them then in Chicago, and my parents sent them funds, and they purchased a three-story building on 3933 Ellis, in Chicago. And so they all lived there, Helen, Mabel, Florence, Ruth. 01:00:00And at that time, Mabel had a ch-child, Ruth had a child, and Florence had a child, so they were all three with children. And then we came. And so it became quite a household, everybody there. And then Reggie would come back on furlough, and he, he joined us too. So we had a big group at 3933. And I went to Oakenwald School there in Chicago, and I was there for one year. And my father, who was always a leader, was never good with his hands. When he came, when they, we came 01:01:00out, he went to a glass factory of all places, to work. And he ended up breaking more glass than was necessary and so he was fired. And my mother says, you know, "This is never going to work 'cause everything you're going to be looking for, you're going to have to do something with your hands, just labor work." So she had a friend who was working as a domestic in Lake Forest, and she said you know, she heard that this lady in Lake Forest was looking for a, a cook and a butler, so, would they be interested? So my mother said, "That might be the best thing." So they went and they talked to Mrs. Ferris and she had this huge 01:02:00estate, big house. She had another house for her gardener, and they also had a, a sheep area, for sheep, and they had a huge garden, fruit, vegetable garden, and, and then fruit trees, everything, it's a big estate. And so they talked and she was very nice, and she said, yes, she would love to have them. So it was my parents and myself went to Lake Forest. And my mother learned she was not a real good cook, but she learned in, in camp, because she was business, she was busy 01:03:00with business, et cetera, and the nursery. And the daughters all cooked each day except on Sunday, my mother then did the cooking. But they had to do, do it. So we knew exactly what the meals were going to be based upon the talents of the sisters, so. But anyway, she quickly learned, I guess, she, the meals she created weren't very good. Mrs. Ferris had a second husband, her first husband passed away. And the second husband was a professor at University of Chicago, theology. And Mrs. Ferris, her wealth came from her first husband who had huge 01:04:00farms and cattle, I think it was in, I think it was in Nebraska, and in Kansas, a number of states, he had large properties. And he had, he was one of the dominant shareholders of... What was that cereal company? Not... It might have been the Nabisco, part of that group. Anyway, he, he was very wealthy. When he passed away. Of course, the wealth went to her. And then eventually she married Doctor, Dr. Ferris. And he, he was kind, but he had a little bit of his own 01:05:00prejudices. But anyway, they, they went there. And then since I had to go to high school then, fresh-- freshman at Lake Forest High School. We were there in early July, and I said, you know, "If I'm going to go to the high school, if I go in without knowing anyone, it's going to be really difficult." So I said, you know, "I think I'll go and see if I can join the freshman football team." They have their pre-practice in late July, they have physicals, et cetera. So I went 01:06:00there and I said I wanted to play football for the freshman team. And so I went through the physicals and I had a, a situation where looking at the other players that were there, they were quite tall and big. And I was at that time, probably a little over five feet and about maybe 110 pounds. And so the principal of the school heard about it from the coach that this little kid is going to try to play football. So he visited, and talked to my parents and said, 01:07:00"The coach feels that your son might get hurt playing this game right now because he's very small compared to the others." And so he said, "I would advise that he should not come up." Well, I decided no, I was going to go anyway. So, I went to practice and it surprised everyone that during the first initiation of how to tackle, I went in there and I really smacked the person. Because in camp you know, I played football, I had my own, my own club, Blue Angels, and we had to play football against another, the only other club in camp, and it was a rivalry. And so we always had to play against each other, and it would always 01:08:00end up with fights, but we learned how to hit each other and without any shoulder pads or anything, we just had a, our little cap and that was it. So when he went to this practice that I could hit, the coach said, "Where in the world did you learn that?" And I says, "I learned it when I was little, younger than, you know..." And so they were really shocked. So I ended up on the first team with the freshman. And then I went all the way through as first string, all the way through varsity and graduated with that. So, I made friends, and that was the important thing. So when school started, I already had a base. And it, it went through that way all the way through school. And it was interesting in 01:09:00that we, in the varsity, we would have parties at the beach and we would have beer on the side. And we would have parties where the parents would invite the team players and we'd have a good time there. But when the parents had parties where it was going to be boys and girls, I would not be invited. Since it was just after the war, I guess there was that feeling that they didn't want the association of a Japanese and an American woman. So I would never be invited to those, but I'd be invited if it were all boys. And--

Anna Takada: So they were not many Japanese Americans in the Lake Forest?

James Shikami: I was the only one, I was the only one there. And so the student body accepted me, just that parental influence wasn't that way. And so I was the boys club president. I, I was also one of the valedictorian speakers at the graduation, there were three of us that were speaking at that time. They had a, a, a vote on the most popular at graduation, they put it all in the yearbook. And I was the most popular, the most congenial, all that kind of stuff. And, but 01:11:00I still, even at the senior prom, I was on the court, but I couldn't go because I couldn't find a date. So it's one of those situations. So I would go on dates, come into Chicago and I would--

Anna Takada: Did you come into Chicago often?

James Shikami: Yeah, for dating purposes, and--

Anna Takada: With other Japanese Americans?

James Shikami: Japanese Americans, right. Yeah.

Anna Takada: So where w-- what would you do when you would come into the city or where would you go?

James Shikami: Well--

Anna Takada: Were you on the South Side near your sisters?

James Shikami: No, at that time, let's see, we, we had, they had moved from 3933, and the whole group that was left had bought a home at, I think it was 01:12:0059th and Dorchester, not far away from the University of Chicago and the midway point there. And so they bought a home to house everybody again. And so I would go there and from there I would find ways to get to different places with, with the girl that I wanted to go out with. And I, well, my varsity year at high school, before that, I would ride, ride bicycle there. And at Lake, at, at Lake Forest, since my parents were working for a family, and that family, they would 01:13:00go from... That was late December to early April, they would be in, that would be... In Florida, and I'm not sure if it was St. Petersburg or someplace down there. And they would spend the whole time there, my parents were there with them. So I was alone in this big house. And my parents as well, you know they, she always canned corn and she canned beans and she had canned different things, tomatoes. And then they had a barrel, a big barrel down in the basement. And 01:14:00they had eggs, from the, from, they had chickens, so they had eggs. And it was some kind of water that looked blue, there was some kind of chemical, kept the eggs okay, fresh. So I had all of those things, so I would cook myself. And I learned how to cook and learned how to make chicken and all of those things, I just trial and error. And I went and took my bicycle, went into town, and I worked three nights at a antique store in the evening. And I would package goods that could be shipped out the next day. So I'd spend about three hours doing 01:15:00that, making some extra money. So, but I, I think I'd learned a lot of independence when I, when that happened, when I could be on my own. And I had, and my parents, my varsity year had bought me a car, so I had a Plymouth, and so I could--

Anna Takada: This was your freshman year?

James Shikami: In my varsity, when I was a varsity, my senior year, yeah. They got me a car. And up until that time I was riding a bicycle all over, but...

Anna Takada: And what did you do after high school graduation?

James Shikami: After high school, I went to Lake Forest College in, in town. And it was interesting there that I lived off campus, lived at home the first year. 01:16:00And then I realized that the, in, in, at the college, the placement bureau, that was the bureau that helped students to get jobs while they're going to school, and also helped senior students try to get jobs after they graduate, upon their graduation. That, that was handled by a senior... Things are escaping me, but a senior person at the college, administrator. And I says, "You know, that's strange because that you shouldn't be using a senior person, an administrator 01:17:00for that." It was really the dean of students, that's what I was thinking, that dean of students. That you shouldn't be doing, really, that should be something, a job for someone who wants to be in business, going to school can help and learn and, and do. The only thing that would be difficult would be to contact businesses for graduating seniors, but other than that, the finding jobs for people that, that are going to school could be a person in school. And so at the end of my freshman year, I approached the president of the college and I told them that I really felt it would be nice if someone that were, was interested in business, that they learned by taking over that position--

Anna Takada: Is that what you did?

James Shikami: And also that person certainly could learn how to deal with corporations and other, and businesses, and getting jobs for students. And so he said yeah, he says, "You know, that sounds like a good idea. Do you know who, who that could be, because you know people at, at the college?" And I said, "Well, I think it's me." And so he says, "Okay, you're it." So I took over and I became part of the, of the administration. So they gave me room and board and food and everything was, was given to me. So I lived on campus, I had a nice room on campus. I could go to meetings of, of these staff if I wanted to. And I 01:19:00did go to one or two, I think just as a outside person. So it was, it was fun. But as I found jobs and, and they assigned a regular secretary for me. And then at the end of the first year, that would be the beginning of my next term, was junior, then from sophomore to junior, I then had my own secretary from a person attending college. And then I built a staff of four more. And so we did find jobs for people while they're going to school. And then I tried to get people from industry to come in, and it was difficult. Because at Lake Forest College, you're a Liberal Arts College, there are only two or three people in science 01:20:00graduating in biology, science. And so I decided that, you know, that's going to be too difficult for a little school like Lake Forest with only 1200 students, I had to get more, other colleges interested, maybe we can join. So I visited five other colleges, the dean of students at each school, and eventually I got three of them to join. And we had our first contact day at Lake Forest College. And I had resumes from all of them beforehand so I could contact industry and say I have so many that are interested, I have science background and math background, et cetera. And so I got a pretty good response from industry that they would 01:21:00send their representative to that contact day. And so I lined up secretaries for each one. And had each of their resumes ready for the interviewer. And so everything went well. And then at the end of the day, I had a big dinner for everyone and we talked about how everything went, and we got comments from industry representatives as well, and so that we could better do the job that following year. So the following year, my senior year, we had it again. And--

Anna Takada: Sounds like you made quite, quite an impression or important change in that...

James Shikami: Yes, it was published in the journal, placement bureau journal. And I, in my, in the senior year I wanted to get a job as a salesman because 01:22:00that was my forte, convincing people. And so I set up three interviews and each interviewer, interview person, interviewer, said that there wouldn't be any openings in the sales area. And they really felt that I should further my abilities in administration that I should go to Michigan or Ohio State, they have some good programs and, and programs that would help you in, in becoming a administrator within the college. And I said, "No, I want to be a salesman." But 01:23:00they wouldn't accept me then because a salesman would expose a Japanese American into their activities. So even though I told them you know, I created all of this and helped build this whole thing, that means I must be able to sell and communicate an idea. They wouldn't accept it. So I then decided I really wanted to get into retail marketing. I wanted to develop products that I could take into market. So I went, I, I got a scholarship to University of Pittsburgh, the graduate school in business. And they had a one-year program that was retail marketing, and so I got that, I went there. And learned how to set up buying 01:24:00plans and marketing plans, et cetera. And learned a lot from that session. I was offered two jobs while there from Horne department store. And the other one was, I think it was, trying to think of the other one was Stauffers, or it was another, the one in two department stores in Pittsburgh. And I decided that I might take one. And then that's when Carson Pirie Scott representative came and said, "We have this program for executive training that you could become a buyer in two, two or three years." And so I said, "Well, that sounds pretty good." I get back to Chicago. I says, "Okay." And that's when I met my wife, of course. 01:25:00But their program was not really set up correctly. And so the buyers themselves didn't know what they were supposed to do in this program. And I found that out quickly and I said, "Oh, no, they just wanted a, a oriental face within their executive program to show that you know, they're diversified."

Anna Takada: Lois had, had mentioned some of that as well.

James Shikami: So it didn't work out for me at all.

Anna Takada: And I'm so sorry, we're actually coming up to time--

James Shikami: Sure, good.

Anna Takada: But I, I wanted to prompt you with the same question that I asked Lois about. You know, if you have any, any hopes in the legacies that you leave with your children, your grandchildren? I know you heard me ask that question.

James Shikami: Mmm yeah, yeah. No I, well, I think the legacy would be something that I've learned in my period of life. And, and that is even with the 9/11 situation, that all of the hatred against the Muslims that came through after the attack in New York, I became involved with the Muslims in Chicago, visited and talked with them. In fact, was on Channel Five at a Muslim church and talked 01:27:00about why I'm there. I also visited the Assyrian Church in Chicago, off of Lawrence. When their church was attacked with a fire bomb for the roof. And they're not even Muslim, but they were, someone had thought Assyrian meant they were Muslim. So I went there and I asked the pastor if I could speak to the congregation, which I did. I went to the sheikh of a religious church on Devon, because one of their members, because they wore their hat, covered hat was attacked. So I went there and talked to them as well. So I became involved with them. And I want to really... My legacy for the children is that you know, you 01:28:00don't judge people by what others people say, you judge them by what you believe, and how you react, and how they react to you. That you should really love, love is the main thing in life, and compassion and humility. If you carry those elements, I think you as a human being will do well. And I, I think my children understand my feelings in that regard. So that's what I'm hoping.

Anna Takada: Well, thank you so much for coming in and, and sharing today.

James Shikami: Thank you.