[NOTE: This transcript has not undergone a final proofreading and may contain
errors. It is being provided in draft form to enhance access to the video recording. As soon as possible, it will be replaced with a final, corrected transcript and will be synced to the video to provide clickable timecodes.]Anna Takada: 00:00 This is an interview with me, Midori Shimizu, as part of
Alphawood Gallery Chicago resettlement experience oral history project. The oral history project is being conducted in line with the current exhibition. Then they came for me, incarceration of Japanese Americans during World War Two and the demise of civil liberties. Today is October 14th at about 2:35 PM and we are recording at the Alphawood Gallery Oral history studio. Midori Shimizu is being interviewed by Anna Takada of Alphawood Gallery.Midori Shimizu: 00:34 Anna Sakado?
AT: 00:35 Takada
MS: 00:37 Sakada?
AT: 00:37 Takada. Um, so now that that's out of the way, can you just start by
stating your full name?MS: 00:44 Pardon?
AT: 00:45 Can you start, uh, state your full name?
MS: 00:49 Midori Shimizu, that's my full name.
AT: 00:51 Okay.
MS: 00:51 I have no English name or anything.
AT: 00:54 Sure. And, uh, can you tell me a little bit about where you were born
and when?MS: 00:59 I was born in Vallejo, California. It's 50 mile east, northeast west,
I don't know, from San Francisco. Um, it's a nice little quiet town and that's about it.AT: 01:17 And, and how would you, um, describe the town? What was it like when
you were growing up there?MS: 01:24 Uh, very quiet. No, um, I knew nothing about, what's the word I want
em. I knew I was Japanese, but it didn't make any difference that I was, my best girlfriend was a American girl blonde. Uh, I forgot her name already. She was a nice friend that was in Vallejo.AT: 02:01 And um, what kind was that, like a rural area or was it?
MS: 02:06 Very small town, about 50 miles north east, south west. I don't know
from San Francisco. And my aunt and uncle lived in San Francisco and they thought it would be good for me to go live in San Francisco and go to school there so that I could meet other Japanese children. And uh, I went to Japanese school but I didn't learn anything there. And, uh, Wrapper Will [?] was the name of my grammar school. And Miss Rooney was my first grade teacher. Ms. Thompson was my second grade teacher and third grade I had another teacher, very nice old lady, Ms. Johnson. I think it wasAT: 03:06 That's a very impressive memory [laughing sound]. Um, and uh, your
parents what, what did they do for a living?MS: 03:14 They, uh, my uncle and aunt owned a cleaning business and they went
back to Japan. So my parents took over the cleaning business and that's how I lived with them, of course, in, I went to school in San Francisco. Then the, when the war broke out we were all sent to Heart Mountain, Wyoming.AT: 03:42 And do you have any siblings?
MS: 03:45 I have an older sister, five years older than I am and uh, she be, she
was a nurse in camp while I went to school.MS: 04:01 And,
AT: 04:02 And, do you know, uh,
AT: 04:05 Where your, did your parents come to the US or were they born here?
MS: 04:09 My father was born in Wakayama, came to America when he was 17, I
believe. My mother was born in Saga, Japan and my fa, grandfather, her father was living in Vallejo, California, working in a restaurant with three other men two Japanese men and one Chinese man. The four of them owned a restaurant in Vallejo, California. And that's how we came out when I was eight or nine caughing], excuse me. And I went to grammar school in San Francisco [caughing], started when I was nine. I started in the fourth or fifth grade and I worked myself up and I more or less caught up, I, maybe I was, I might've been a year behind and I finished high school.AT: 05:30 And um, you mentioned your, your aunt and uncle went back to Japan.
MS: 05:37 They did. And My mother and father took over the cleaning business
after that and then, the war broke out and we were sent into camp and we happened to go to Pomona assembly camp, which was in California. And from there we were sent to Heart Mountain, Wyoming.AT: 06:01 And um, so when, when Pearl Harbor broke out, can you or was attacked,
um, do you remember that day maybe what you were doing or where you wereMS: 06:13 The day that the war broke out?
AT: 06:15 Or that, the day that Pearl Harbor was attacked,
MS: 06:20 I knew nothing about, oh, it was on a Sunday and I came out of the
movie house downtown in San Francisco and I didn't know what was going on. I really did not know until a day or two later. And I couldn't believe Japan would attack.AT: 06:50 How old were you? Do you remember?
MS: 06:52 I think I was nine. Yeah.
AT: 06:56 Did any things
AT: 06:58 Change for you at all, whether in your family or in school?
MS: 07:02 No, No. It's just that I couldn't believe that Japan would attack. I
just could not believe it. It was just very strange to me, like unbelievable, so.AT: 07:29 Did you, Were there conversations within your family about it? Did you
talk to your parents about it?MS: 07:38 Not really. I just, I was in a world of my own, I guess, at that time.
AT: 07:47 And, and what about when the evacuation orders went out? Do you
remember that?MS: 07:53 Oh, well, I just had to go along with what my parents were going
through. It just go along with them. I had no say in it. Ummm. I had no idea where we were going. And first we went into Pomona assembly camp, which was still in California, and I can't remember how long we stayed there. Caughing. Then, after that, we were on a long train ride and we ended up in Wyoming and that was like a home to me. Then after that I went to school there, grammar school and high school. And when the war ended I was still, I think I was in sophomore year and my folks came out to Chicago and I went and signed up at Hyde Park high school and started with freshman year, went four years there.AT: 09:09 And um, before we, we get into what life was like in Chicago. Um, I'd
like to hear a little bit more about your experiences that come up in Pomona and then, um, heart mountain. Do you, do you remember your, your first reactions or feelings when you arrived to Pomona Assembly Center as a child?MS: 09:37 Pomona, I had a, a neighbor. We had a neighbor I grew attached to
because I've always loved babies and my neighbor had a little baby and I used to go over there next door all the time and play with the baby and they became our close family friends and they went into block one and we were way up in block 27. I would go all the way to block one just to see the baby. I loved that baby. His name was Yutaka and my uncle's name was Yutaka, but I never made that connection at that time, you know? But uh, oh, I adored that baby.AT: 10:29 Do you remember how long that walk was from block one to block 27?
MS: 10:34 Oh, was a long, long walk because black 27 is up here and block one
would be, I think it was right across that way. We have to go through how many blocks to get to that a block one. But I didn't care. I went there every day. I love that baby.AT: 11:03 Um hum, what else do you remember from, from Pomona? Did you go to
school there?MS: 11:08 I went to school. Uh, I was in grammar school at the time, so we were
in barracks and then after I graduated, then I went into the big building, uh, as a freshman. I guess that's where we started. That's all I remember. And I can't remember when we came out of the camp, but I started with freshman year again in Hyde Park. I guess I just wanted to cover myself. So I was always a year behind because I kept covering myself to make sure I learned everything.AT: 11:55 And um, so you said it was a long train ride from, you said it was a
long train ride from uh, Pomona Assembly Center to Heart Mountain?MS: 12:06 Yes, it was.
AT: 12:07 Can you tell me about that trip?
MS: 12:11 I can't remember it at all. Nothing. I just cannot remember it. All I
know is I was there.AT: 12:23 And, and what about, um, Heart Mountain? Was it very different from Pomona?
MS: 12:30 It was a much bigger camp and we were able to go out of the camp. I
can't remember where. We only used to go to Shoshone River. I, it's part of the Colorado River, I believe. And we used to go swimming, wading, playing in the water.AT: 12:52 Was there anyone there that you had known from back home or?
MS: 12:55 No, no, no.
MS: 13:01 And, my mother worked in the mess hall, so she would make us, nigiri,
you know, rice bowl. And we take that and we go out of the camp and go to the Shoshone river. I don't know what we did, nothing really, but it was just being out of the camp and that was it. I don't remember anything bad or good or anything about it. I was just ... a living.AT: 13:42 And um, so in camp were you living with your parents and your sister?
MS: 13:49 Yes.
AT: 13:50 In the same room?
MS: 13:53 Yes. The Barrack had six apartment. The two ends were four couples,
then the one next to it. The same entrance was for bigger families. Five were more, then the one in the center was for family of four, five would have been tight. So ours was a family of four, my sister and I, my mother and my father. And it was perfect for that for us.AT: 14:32 Do you have any other memories of, of Heart Mountain that stick out to you?
MS: 14:38 Ice Skating almost every day, every night after school.
MS: 14:49 Um,
MS: 14:51 What was the climate like there?
MS: 14:54 During the winter, it was very cold, very, very cold. You had to have
peacoked and uh, summer was okay. It was just a summer. We used to go to a swimming hole, I remember. I didn't know how to swim, but we just waited in the water. That's about it then. We had a big, I think our camp was the only one that had a huge building, high school building. I've never heard of any other camps having any high school building. And I went to high school there for a year. Then we came out of the camp when I, then uh, I did go finish off. I was in high school already, but I went into grammar school to finish off. I just wanted to make sure I graduated from high, our grammar school. Then I went into Hyde Park and went the four years there.AT: 16:17 So can you tell me more about um, how that works of your family moving
to Chicago? Did your parents have to find a job or [?] a house or how did you leave after the end of the war?MS: 16:31 My sister came out to Chicago first and then my father decided maybe
it's time to go out of the camp now, you know, and he wasn't really our cousin. Somehow we were related. His aunt was my mother's aunt. I mean he is, he was a younger man. My mother of course was older woman, but it was the same woman that was both the aunt and so with her in mind, we went out to Chicago and my father found a job. My mother worked downtown, uh,MS: 17:24 I've gone to her place of work from after school.
AT: 17:29 What were they doing for work? It seemed like they were folding cards
and stuffing cards into an envelope or, I can't remember exactly what it was, but it was a manual labor.AT: 17:48 And um, so where in Hyde Park did your family settle?
MS: 17:54 We were not in hype park. We were in a 43rd and two blocks east of
cottage grove. I don't know if you know where cottage grove is. We were on Lake Park and the 39th bridge was over there in the expressway was underneath that bridge. So we weren't too far from the express way. In fact, we're just, the expressway will be here and work on this first street down the street, but you have to go to 39 to get to my apart our apartmentMS: 18:40 And,
AT: 18:43 And how old would you have been when you moved?
MS: 18:47 I was, did I go to high school? I don't think I went, oh, I went part
of the, uh, part of the grammar school and then I went into high school and finished four years of it in Hyde Park.AT: 19:13 Do you remember, was that the first time that you had been in Chicago?
Do you remember your reactions to the city? Was it very different from any place you've been or,MS: 19:25 Oh,
MS: 19:28 drom San Francisco it was different. I dunno, I dunno how to describe
it to you. San Francisco, I could walk all the way to downtown in San Francisco and in Chicago I don't think I could walk all the way to downtown Chicago. I'd have to take the L or the subway to go downtown, you know. So it, it seems like maybe it was a bigger city, Chicago was, although San Francisco is a pretty big city too. And yet it didn't seem that big to meMS: 20:22 at the time.
AT: 20:23 And how about the, the demographics of the area at that time
MS: 20:28 Of what?
AT: 20:28 Of where the neighborhood where you were
MS: 20:31 Chicago?
AT: 20:35 Were there other Japanese American families or?
MS: 20:38 There were some, they were starting to move into that area. There were
a lot of blacks. We lived among the blacks, but the black, uh, the Japanese were starting to move into different areas there in that proximate area. It almost became a Japanese town almost. And there was a north side that was a, like a Japanese town also, because,MS: 21:10 Uh,
MS: 21:13 North of diversity, division or was it diversity, division I think.
Was another Japanese town, but that's north.AT: 21:25 Did you ever go out there? I, Clark and division is one that people often
MS: 21:30 Talk about? Yeah. Yeah. Once in a while, you know, we used to go to
different dances. It, the Japanese group gave dances here and there. We used to go to different dances.AT: 21:48 Um, those dances you're talking about, were they related to the clubs?
The boys and girls?MS: 21:53 Yes.
AT: 21:54 Were you afraid of any club?
MS: 21:57 Jollenade[?] was one of them.
AT: 22:00 What, what were some of the other ones that you remember?
MS: 22:03 I can't remember. Silhouette. I think there was a club name
silhouettes. And I can't remember any of the boys club, any of their names or anything.AT: 22:19 So, um, when you were in school, what would you be doing?
MS: 22:25 What was I doing?
AT: 22:27 Ummm, for fun or for fun or with family?
MS: 22:35 Uh, school was school. I just went to school because you had to go to
school and I tried to learn everything I can.MS: 22:46 And, that's about it. I liked school. Was a fun time for me. I think
it's a fun time for all kids. It should be a fun time for all kids.AT: 23:05 Um, as far as those dances, do you remember where they were held? Were
they on the south side or?MS: 23:13 Oh, there was a, most of them were on the north side, but there was
some in the south side that we would crash into. But the, most of the dances were up in the north side I think. Then I went to.AT: 23:33 And how would for for someone who never experienced those dances, uh,
how would you describe them? What were they like?MS: 23:44 Umm.
AT: 23:45 Who was there?
MS: 23:47 Young people, all your teenage people. And, uh, the music was the
music that was popular at the time and I can't remember what some of the songs were anymore. I'm just getting so old [laughing]AT: 24:10 Were people actually dancing?
MS: 24:12 Sure! All the floors will be crowded.
AT: 24:18 And, um, was your, was your family involved in any, um, churches or
temples? No?MS: 24:27 No. I wasn't. Bad girl, I'm bad girl. I didn't go to church at all, hardly.
AT: 24:38 And um, and what about, uh, were, were there any, um, Japanese grocery
stores or businesses that you recall in those .... ?MS: 24:53 Oh, there was some, I remember there was one of them on north side,
but then I lived on the south side. So, uh, once in a blue moon I went to that grocery store, but it was rare. And then, south side there was, I'm 55th street. My girlfriend's parents owned the grocery store.MS: 25:20 Um, 55th. And what was that? Dorchester? It was on 55th. And I
frequented that, that grocery store because my girlfriend's parents owned it. You know.AT: 25:41 Did your family eat together at home?
MS: 25:45 Um hum,
AT: 25:45 Someone would cook food.
MS: 25:47 My Mother did all the cooking.
AT: 25:49 What kind of food did she cook?
MS: 25:51 Mostly Japanese, but once in a while we have pork chops and steaks,
potato, uh, baked potato, fried potato.AT: 26:01 And where, when you're at home, would you speak Japanese with your parents?
MS: 26:05 Yes, mostly, especially to my mother. She spoke hardly any English. I
used to be angry with her. You're living in the states, you should learn to speak English. But it was hard for her. I realized that now, so I was almost asking for the impossibilities.AT: 26:35 Did she ever tell you, did you ever talk about it or?
MS: 26:40 With her?
AT: 26:40 Yeah,
MS: 26:42 Not really, no, but I, it was hard for her to learn English, I guess,
and I grew up using both English and Japanese, so it was easy for me but not for her.AT: 27:09 And so after you, you completed high school at Hyde Park, where did
you go from there?MS: 27:17 I had no desire to go to college, did not even enter my mind. So I got
a part time job and that became my full time job. And,AT: 27:38 Where were you working?
MS: 27:43 Oh, it was, not quite downtown and yet it felt like it was close to
downtown. Superior I think was one of the street.AT: 28:02 And what kind of work was it?
MS: 28:08 It seemed like it was piecework. We have to work pretty fast. I think
it was piecework. I really can't remember. It was so long ago. I'm old.AT: 28:25 And um, when, so your sister was here as well, um, was she out of school?
MS: 28:34 Who?
AT: 28:35 Your sister!
MS: 28:36 My sister ... I think she went to school at least couple of years I
thought. I'm not sure. Then, she became a nurse's aide like she worked in the hospital.AT: 29:00 Do you up, remember where that was? Which hospital?
MS: 29:06 Oh, by the lake area. I don't know which hospital it would have been.
She was living out of the house already. She was with her girlfriend, which is now her sister in law. She married her, her girlfriend's brother, Bill. And ... so that was her sister in law that she was living with before she got married. And I guess through her, she must have met Bill.AT: 29:50 So you had been living along with your parents then, is that right?
MS: 29:54 Yes.
AT: 29:58 And um, do you remember the apartment that you were staying in the
wall [?] with your parents?MS: 30:07 South side. 37 Lake Park Avenue.
AT: 30:14 Oops, sorry.
MS: 30:15 Then we moved to 43rd. Uh, was it Ellis? I think 43rd and Ellis. And
from there it's a blank to me where we went. And after I graduated, I don't know what happened.AT: 30:45 Did you move to the north side?
MS: 30:48 I really can't remember when I moved to the north side with my parents
or how I got to the north side. It wasn't with my sister.AT: 31:09 Where on the north side did you live?
MS: 31:16 Oh, I almost had that. It's not 47th. It's at 47th or 49? Oh my
goodness! It's all,AT: 31:37 .... [inaudible] taken you way back.
MS: 31:39 It's all jumbled up.
AT: 31:41 Hmm, and where are you living now?
MS: 31:47 Uh, I'm living way up north. Where am I living right now?
Anonymous Speak: 32:00 Roger's Park
AT: 32:00 Where?
IN 2: 32:01 Roger's park.
MS: 32:03 Rogers Park. Yeah. Thank you.
AT: 32:06 And um, how long have you been up there?
MS: 32:10 Oh, seems like a long, long, long, long time.
AT: 32:15 And did you ever get married?
MS: 32:18 Yeah, I only married once to Pat Shimizu.
AT: 32:26 And where, where did you meet him?
MS: 32:32 I don't know if I met him at a dance or I really can't remember. It
was so long ago and he's been gone for quite a while now. And my son is gone too. I had two daughters, Karen and Laurie and my son Dale. And Dale, I think he passed away when he was very young.AT: 33:10 And you were raising your family in Chicago?
MS: 33:13 Yes.
AT: 33:16 Did you ever think about moving back to the west coast or were moving
anywhere else?MS: 33:25 I don't know where I would go in the west coast area. I don't think
I'd want to go to San Francisco. If I do move to the California, I guess it would be cali, uh, Los Angeles. But, Chicago is my home. It's my home. I've been here since I was, I believe I was about 16. So Chicago is my home, I think.AT: 34:02 What do you, what do you like about Chicago?
MS: 34:06 You have your summer, you have your spring, you have your winter, you
have your fall. You have all the four seasons. Or California. I don't know. You don't have the four season, summer, spring, summer, spring, summer, spring. I think that's about it. But Chicago, you have all four seasons.AT: 34:37 Uh, one thing I want, I wanted to ask you about, ummm. When you had
moved to Chicago as a, a young woman, uh, did young people talk about the, the camps? Because I imagine a lot of folks were, had been coming from the campsMS: 34:56 We never talked about it. Isn't that funny? That is strange. I don't
know what camp they even belonged to. We never talked about camp. We just talked about the now.AT: 35:18 And how about when you were raising a family? Did you ever share about
it with your family?MS: 35:25 About my camp life and stuff? Not really. They never questioned me and
I never ... one or two or had any interest in telling them about it. They want to know, I'll tell him. But, I guess they have no interest in wanting to know about my past either. I'm just a mommy. That's all [laughing].AT: 36:06 And, and um, you said that you think that you just weren't interested
or, or didn't want to talk about it. Um, do you, was there any particular reason or?MS: 36:21 No. Life goes on, you just, why waste your time looking back? It just
keeps going on. Why hinder yourself, you know, from going, moving on and on ... Just in your own memory, you could go back. But I don't think my children really would be interested or my friends or anyone who would be interested, you know, just for now leave for now,AT: 37:24 This is a, a more random question, but what, what has been one of the
happiest moments of your life so far?MS: 37:35 Happiest moment of my life? I guess, the carefree moments of my
teenage years. Carefree. Totally.AT: 37:55 And if you could pass on a message or a legacy to your children, your
grandchildren, your great grandchildren, what, what would you like to leave them with or what do you want them to know?MS: 38:12 Oh, they should live their own life. They should live their own life.
I've lived my own, they should live their own life too. Why meddle into mine?MS: 38:28 [Smiling]
AT: 38:32 As we wrap up here, is there anything that uh, I may have missed or
that you would want to add?MS: 38:42 You seem to have covered quite a bit.
AT: 38:45 Any, any questions from over here?
IN 2: 38:49 Um, I remember you saying like you're, was it either pat or your
dad, [inaudible] didn't they hang out at some bar in the north side a lot?MS: 39:02 Pat, my husband.
IN 2: 39:05 Yes.
MS: 39:05 He lived in the bar.
IN 2: 39:07 What were, was that bar?
MS: 39:10 Nisei.
IN 2: 39:10 Nisei?
MS: 39:11 Yeah.
IN 2: 39:11 So, it was a bar that was specifically Japanese.
MS: 39:14 All Japanese. Very. You'd rarely, rarely saw any white man was all
Japanese. No, Chinese, no Filipino, was mainly all JapaneseSpeaker 1: 39:32 Is Nisei lounge?
MS: 39:33 Yeah.
IN 2: 39:35 Now I think it's like a hipster lounge.
MS: 39:38 There's another bar over on Sheffield.
IN 2: 39:42 ... [inaudible] yeah, right exactly, there was a legit Japanese [inaudible].
MS: 39:44 Yeah. There is another bar over on Sheffield. That was all Japanese
too, but I can't recall the name of the bar right now. But that was all Japanese too. There was quite a few here and there. That was all Japanese. I guess they just felt more comfortable among their own.AT: 40:09 Did you, did you ever go to any bars or?
MS: 40:13 Oh, Nisei bar? Yeah. And I went to the one over on Sheffield, very few
bars other than that, so I'm not that much of a drinker because just few drinks and I am drunk out of my gourd, [loudly laughing]. Don't know what I'm doing. I might be getting into trouble.IN 2: 40:46 So, so pat was Japanese American as well?
MS: 40:50 Yes.
IN 2: 40:50 So was, were you just attracted to Japanese American specifically?
MS: 40:57 Yeah,
IN 2: 40:57 Because I always thought it was interesting that you chose to marry
a Japanese American. Karen, his, her daughter married a Japanese American and well, her son married a Korean American [laughing] ,but still there's kind of that thread ofMS: 41:13 Well, Lori married an American man.
IN 2: 41:15 That's true.
MS: 41:16 Yeah,
IN 2: 41:16 That's true.
MS: 41:17 She wasn't drawn to Japanese people.
IN 2: 41:19 Yeah,
MS: 41:21 Her friends were all different nationalities.
MS: 41:26 And did you care?
MS: 41:27 No, I didn't care. She had her own life.
IN 2: 41:30 But for you, did you want to marry a Japanese American or just
happened to be?MS: 41:36 I think I would prefer to marry a Japanese person.
IN 2: 41:41 Um humm
MS: 41:41 Yeah. And uh, in fact, all my friends were Japanese, handful [?] here
and there. I had white girlfriend, Jewish girlfriends. I even had black girlfriends, couple of them, Dorothy and Donna, that was in grammar school.IN 2: 42:03 Wow,
MS: 42:03 So I wasn't picky [laughing together].
IN 2: 42:14 I know, I know.
AT: 42:14 Alright, that's it
AT: 42:14 Thank you so much for taking the time.
MS: 42:17 Oh, you're welcome. Thank you.
