Wernick, Julie and Janelle Flores (6/21/2021)

JJ Ueunten: Okay, today is June 21st and this oral history interview is being recorded remotely due to the COVID-19 pandemic. The interviewer is JJ Ueunten of the JASC Legacy Center, and the interviewees are Julie Wernick and Janelle Flores. This interview is being recorded by the Japanese American Service Committee Legacy Center in order to document the experiences of Japanese Americans in the Chicago area. Okay, so what is your full name?

Julie Wernick: My full name is Julie Kira Wernick. Our, my mom's maiden name is Shimizu.

JJ Ueunten: Maybe I'll just ask all of your questions. What is the year of your birth?

Julie Wernick: Oh, 1996.

JJ Ueunten: And where were you born?

Julie Wernick: Chicago.

JJ Ueunten: And go to Janelle. What is your full name?

Janelle Flores: Janelle Elaine Shimizu Wernick-- Flores. (laughs) It's not Wernick anymore. It's Flores.

JJ Ueunten: And what is your year of birth?

Janelle Flores: 1980.

JJ Ueunten: And where were you born?

Janelle Flores: Chicago.

JJ Ueunten: I guess either of you or both of you can answer these. Were any members of your family incarcerated during World War II? And if so, what camps were they in?

Julie Wernick: Our grandfather was incarcerated along with his brother and sister and his mom and dad. And they were all in Minidoka.

JJ Ueunten: And when did your family first come to the U.S.?

Janelle Flores: So, I don't remember the exact date, but it was our, actually our grandparents, or-- great-grandparents, sorry. Our great-grandfather, Kiyoshi Shimizu came first. He came to the East Coast. I can't remember if he went to Seattle or straight to Portland? Portland is where our family was relocated from. So my grandfather and his siblings were born in Portland. But our great-grandfather came first, and then eventually he sent for his bride, Tase. I actually don't know her maiden name. But I, there's an age difference between 00:03:00them and I don't know if whether or not they actually had ever met before she came over or if it was an arranged marriage. But that's who came here first. And then my grandfather and his siblings were born in Portland.

JJ Ueunten: And when and how did your family come to live in Chicago?

Janelle Flores: So what we learned at Minidoka was that our grandfather actually would leave the camp to work. And we didn't find any records that indicated exactly where he went during all of those times. But we know he left more than once while his family, the rest of his family stayed at the camp. Then, I believe that they relocated to Cleveland, Ohio. Is that right, Jules?

Julie Wernick: Yeah, I think Cleveland.

Janelle Flores: 'Cause that's what the records at Minidoka say. But then, we know eventually they ended up in Chicago and they actually bought a four-flat like, graystone in Chicago where the whole family lived. And then they rented out one of the units to another Japanese family that I, I'm guessing probably had relocated as well. It wasn't a whole family, by the way. It was just one member. I don't know if she had like other relatives that lived with her when she first started living there. But I remember Mrs. Nishi used to live there in this apartment for a while. And then eventually she moved out into a different house that was closer to the rest of her family.

JJ Ueunten: Is, is that like, the like place that you grew up in?

Janelle Flores: (nods) Yeah. So I grew up at 1623 West Sunnyside. I was, I guess 00:05:00we lived in that hou... Well, I'm pretty sure all of our... Like my parents my-- or my mother and her sisters were all... Like that's the home they were born into. They were raised there. And then I lived there 'till I was about 12. And then I moved out with my mom after she got married to Julie's father. My dad, Mr. Wernick. So I'm pretty sure... Yeah that was the permanent residence our whole mom's life and her siblings' lives. And our grandfather used to work around the block like on the opposite side of the, the... It was a big block. But on the opposite side on Montrose. He used to work at um...

Julie Wernick: Autoport.

Janelle Flores: Autoport. Yeah, he was a mechanic there. And you know, there 00:06:00were other Japanese men that worked there as well.

JJ Ueunten: Cool. Thank you. I know you said your family kind of first settled in Portland when they came to the U.S.? And then do you, do you know anything about what motivated them to immigrate?

Janelle Flores: I don't. I do... The only thing I really know about Portland was that they had a dry cleaning business there. So I'm guessing it was really just to find a place to settle down, you know, have like a business, raise a family. I'm guessing Kiyoshi probably came over first to figure out what was going on. And then he you know, eventually sent for his person when he was ready to like start that family. That's one of my best guesses. But yeah, I know that they had 00:07:00a business. But of course, they had to leave it when they relocated.

JJ Ueunten: And do you know, kind of, in Portland, were they part of a Japanese c-- American community that you know of?

Janelle Flores: I don't know that. Yeah, I don't know. I don't really know about the neighborhood in Portland. One time I tried to look it up on Google Maps, you know? 'Cause you can like see the actual street of where the business was. And like it obviously wasn't there anymore. And there was like a, the street actually had like a larger street like going through it. I don't know if you remember kind of like how the bridge would go over where like Western Avenue is and Belmont. Like it was kinda like that setup, where it's like, you know there was a street that went higher to go faster, I'm guessing, over these intersections. So I don't really know. They must have like redone that whole 00:08:00neighborhood 'cause I'm guessing that's more of like a modern build, you know? So yeah, I'm not sure.

JJ Ueunten: Thank you. And I think you mentioned that like, some of this like, some of this history you, you just learned. Did you hear kind of any stories like about your family like pre-war, or.... yeah?

Janelle Flores: Yeah, I think that they like helped with the business. My uncle Victor, who was the eldest in the family, of the kids, he was actually in college. My grandfather always said that he was more of like the troublemaker. So he didn't, I don't think he went to college, but he did like to work on fishing boats. And he loved fishing. And we do have like some old photos, black and white photos of him like holding giant fish in like Alaska and like, with 00:09:00these like fishermen's gear on. So I'm guessing he probably was more of like the adventurer, risk taker? So yeah, but that's all I know. And then our, my great aunt, Tase... No, not Tase, um...

Julie Wernick: Kiyoshi?

Janelle Flores: No, my aunt... Yaeko. So Auntie Yae I think was like really young. So I think she was like still in school or something, you know, like high school or something.

JJ Ueunten: So even though you kind of answered this, when and where was your family incarcerated?

Julie Wernick: They were incarcerated at Minidoka in Idaho. But I think they were, they were at like a relocation center before they went to the camp.

JJ Ueunten: And, do you know kind of how old, your... around like how old your grandparents were when, when it happened?

Julie Wernick: Were they in their late teens?

Janelle Flores: Yeah, I think it was like, like teen-- like I think Yae was in her, was a teenager. And I think Victor was in his early 20s, I want to say? I'm trying to remember... Yeah they had t... Yeah I think that they were, actually, they were probably yeah, late teens. Like maybe Victor was early 20s? I'd have to like look back and find his birthdate. I'm not sure.

JJ Ueunten: And then did, did you kind of hear any stories about their time in, in camp?

Janelle Flores: Okay, so that was always a difficult topic. If-- I was a curious child. And so, if I ever asked a question about it, it was usually ignored, which felt really awkward because I didn't realize that the adults were avoiding, like the topic. Now that I'm an adult myself, I realize what was going on. But really that, they were just trying to avoid the topic. The reason why, or the way that I found out that they were actually in the internment camp was my grandmother told me. So my grandmother was not Japanese, had never been interned. And somehow she brought it up or told me I guess when I was old enough, I'm assuming. But I don't ever remember the Japanese side of our family 00:12:00ever openly like talking about it. And I would find out some things when she would like start telling some stories in my grandfather's presence. And if she got something wrong or he like wanted to add detail, then he would share something else. So for example, like my grandmother told me you know, it didn't matter like on the day that everybody was evacuated if you had just had a baby, if you were sick in the hospital, if you were old, if you were young. Like you had to leave and you had to go to the camp. So when I was a kid, I thought like that seemed really irrational, even as a kid, that if you had a baby, like why would you leave the hospital and just go to a camp with a new baby? That made no sense to me or made no sense that someone who was sick in the hospital would have to leave the hospital to go to just this random place that may not be able 00:13:00to take care of them. Like that really seemed strange to me. When I'm saying--when I'm saying when I was a kid, I mean like 8, 9, 10. Like I was pretty small, trying to kinda wrap my mind around what she was sharing. And then she told me that like she tried to describe I think what the camp was like for me. And one time, I remember she got it wrong because then my grandfather corrected her and said, "No, we all lived in like one room. If we had to go to the bathroom in the middle of the night because it was so cold, we would just like pee off the porch." And that there were, oh I think I must have asked, like why didn't you just like leave? And I remember he said, you know, "There were men with guns, like soldiers that were watching us. So we couldn't do that." And I thought that was weird too because that seemed very like aggressive. And I was 00:14:00like, "But you weren't being dangerous. Why would they need guns?" So that was confusing. I don't think I asked those questions though. So he also ended up saying about the actual structures, and how in the bathrooms, the reas-- or they like didn't have walls. And so he said that, all, he said quote unquote, "All the women made a stink about it." No pun intended. And they had to like build walls so that some of the women could have privacy like when they went to the bathroom. That's all I really remember from things that he may have wanted to like share with me. And then other things I think I just learned probably from like researching some things or looking them up when I could. I did, we do have actually an original Minidoka yearbook. I don't remember how I found it or who 00:15:00found it first. Maybe our mom did. But I think it belonged to my Uncle Victor. And you know I remember looking at every single page of that book the first time that we found it. I was older, and I was probably a teenager, like, maybe in college. I was probably in college. And I remember like just trying to find pictures of our family and there was like a group photo for their block, but I couldn't like find their faces in there. And when we were actually at Minidoka, we could not find like any photos, like nothing out of the ordinary of our family other than their names in like whatever records they had to keep. So there isn't a lot of like imprint from my point of view of their particular history in how they spent their time there. There's definitely not information 00:16:00that we have access to or memories that I can think of where they were telling us how they felt about being there. But I'm thinking maybe the avoidance is telling me how they felt about being there. But that's like the most I can remember.

Julie Wernick: Our grandfather died when I was pretty young. So I like obviously never talked to him about it. And the stories or, and information I know is mostly from Janelle. Our mom doesn't know like too much about it. I, I don't think she really asked quest, many questions about it growing up. And she said that the first time she learned about the camps was in class in high school. So I, I don't think it was a topic of discussion, really.

JJ Ueunten: Julie, do you remember kind of the, when you first kind of found out 00:17:00that your family was incarcerated?

Julie Wernick: Yeah. I think I was in high school when I found out. I don't remember how it happened. But my mom told me, I guess. And it didn't, I didn't really like know what it meant at the time. And I wasn't sure like what significance it really had to me. But I do know that I remember my senior year of high school I, we, in my political science class, we only spent like an hour on like learning about the camps and that was the whole unit. And I remember 00:18:00that really like frustrated me.

JJ Ueunten: That's a very short unit.

Julie Wernick: Yeah.

JJ Ueunten: Yeah. Do you want to share a little bit about going to Minidoka and maybe kind of how you decided to do that and like what you're hoping for from that?

Janelle Flores: So I always wanted to go because I was really curious about like what did this place look like? Like, could we find photos of our family? Like, how can we learn more about this? I felt like when my grandfather passed, like I just was never going to know. You know? After that, I was like, "There's no way that I'm going to learn more unless I just go." So, so I brought the idea up to our mother like a few years ago, like several years ago, and asked like, "Would 00:19:00you ever go?" And she was like, "No, why would I want to do that?" So I told her I was like really curious and wanted to see what was there just to understand. And so then this past year, you know, my sister was getting more involved in the Japanese American community in Chicago. And you know, there was a lot going on, just you know, in our like country, right? Where I was like, "Well, if there was a time to educate yourself, now is probably the time." So I asked Jules if she wanted to go with us, or go with me. And, and I kept thinking... she said yes. And then I kept thinking like we need to document this too. So then I asked a friend of ours, of mine, who I went to elementary school with who does, makes, who has made documentaries in the past like you know, professionally. Like, he 00:20:00doesn't do that now. I was like, "Hey, like, would you be interested in just like, following along with us?" Because he also is you know sort of like an activist like in like, social justice like around incarceration. And he's not necessarily like practicing really. You know and like, he's in a political position now. So I was just like, "Maybe he'll just want to do something a little bit different." And he said "Sure". So the three of us ended up in Idaho just to figure out like what is this and what can we get from this and you know, what will we discover about our family? And we had this friend with us who could actually you know like help us, kind of guide us in like absorbing a lot of it you know? And I feel like even his need to like walk around and get, capture 00:21:00some really specific spaces kind of like gave us an opportunity too to like get to know the, the camp environment like a little more as well. So yeah. Jules, do you want to share like from your point of view?

Julie Wernick: I was also curious to see the camps, but didn't really like have any expectations going into it on what it would be like. And, I... Yeah. I'm thankful that we documented it so that we could go back and watch it. And, we didn't like learn much more about our family specifically. But we learned a lot about like how the people in the camp spent their time and like how they, how 00:22:00they tried to make the best out of a terrible situation. And we got to see like the barracks that they stayed in and the, the cafeteria and area. And so it, I, I do feel more connected with my family history now. And I feel like it brought my sister and I just closer too doing this together.

Janelle Flores: Can I share one more thing too? Actually two more things. I also feel closer to my sister. And I also think I realized like kind of more about who our family is right? On that side of the family, where like they weren't going to talk about it when they were alive. They weren't going to like teach 00:23:00us. Well, really at the time, it was mostly me. The, the youngest generation, about what had happened. They were going to avoid it. And at least like my auntie, I didn't really grow up around. She ended up staying in Idaho. So her side of the family may be totally different in terms of how much they know and how much they were encouraged to be educated on it. But our side of the family, my uncle Victor and like my grandfather, he, they did not want to like share right? Then when I think about like, how they're not in any of the photos like of the, the groups, the baseball team. That was like, you know like, everyone's favorite pastime you know like to either to watch or to play right? Like I couldn't find any sort of like imprint, right? And that might have been on purpose. Like I think about how many times our grandfather probably left that 00:24:00camp. And didn't really, I didn't really see any you know urgency for him to like record that somewhere. You know like there's no evidence, but we know that happened. Like I realized, like okay, they just did not want that, I feel like, to be their narrative. And that's why we didn't hear it and that's why we don't see it. And you know, I'm not sure... You know it would be so interesting to ask, but I'm not sure what they really wanted the youngest generation to carry with them about that time or even if they thought about it or if it was too hard to even like broach right? And I think about our mother and how she said, "Well, why would I want to do that?" You know, So even the generation above us, they didn't really want to talk about it. They didn't encourage us to research it or 00:25:00know more. And even when as older kids we were like, "We're going to go do this." I mean our mom was interested in hearing about what we learned, but I, she didn't ask to see any of the footage. She, in other words, she still doesn't really want to go, even if she doesn't physically have to go. Like even if it's you know convenient. Like we recorded a lot of it. She hasn't really asked to see it. Like, I kind of feel like I understand now that they did not really want us to remember all of it with them. And I do feel obligated to you know, be educated on it only because I think if I don't, like that story will never be told. You know? So I feel like I did learn more about maybe what our ancestors 00:26:00wanted you know, coming out of that, which was basically for us to like, move forward in a different way and not have to like focus on those things or know too much about those things where we would have to absorb some of that. And I think that that's valuable too. Understanding like what that type of, I guess, trauma. We'll just name it right? As trauma, can do to a whole generation of people, a generation after them. And then even the, you know a third generation, well really fourth, right? 'Cause our great-grandparents, it started with them too. How we can actually like absorb all of that and like feel you know like maybe we do need to like move backwards as best as we can just to like keep some of that story and history really in our own family. 'Cause it's only an hour in 00:27:00her high school class. You know, I didn't learn about it at all in my high school class. Like you know we're, we're it?

JJ Ueunten: Thanks. And Julie, do you have any kind of like reflections on that or anything you want to add?

Julie Wernick: Yeah, I feel like the more that I learned about the incarceration camps and the, and how like my peers' families talked or didn't talk about it and how it's, there was just kind of like a, a silence amongst a lot of the, the generations that were in the camps, like it, that helped me make more sense of why our mom and her sisters like are the way that they are. 'Cause I could see 00:28:00like this kind of like shame and silence being like passed down from generation to generation, beyond just talking about the camps, but in how they deal with like other issues too.

JJ Ueunten: Yeah, I guess besides kind of some shame and silence, do you feel like there's other kind of patterns or behavioral things that have kind of gotten passed down?

Janelle Flores: So my grandparents were hoarders. The house I grew up in was just packed with who knows what. Like there were rooms you couldn't walk into. My uncle Victor was a hoarder as well. So we're all in the same building. But 00:29:00it's interesting because even like, you know my little brother lives with me now here in Colorado. My bedroom doesn't look like his bedroom. Like you know, we, we were in the same house, we're the same family, but we like create our spaces in the way that we need to you know, find comfort in them. The house I grew up in, that four-flat graystone, like there were rooms in that building like you couldn't go into 'cause there was just so much stuff in them. And not necessarily organized. It's not like everything was in piles and you couldn't just walk in. Like there were some like, things had fallen over, stuff on top of other stuff. Like I, I don't know like the psychology behind that in this case. Like, I'm sure we could make assumptions about why that was. But like I know that that's you know, a sign of some mental health needs not being met. And so I'm thinking like the hoarding was definitely a result of probably some of that 00:30:00trauma. I mean I couldn't even guess. Like, maybe my grandmother had something to do with that too, you know, even though she d-- was not interned. She was not a Japanese-American. But I do remember when I was a kid, there like was a moment where she like was like forcing us all to clean up a few of the rooms in the apartment we lived in where we were you know, washing things. And like, I mean there was like, you know like, mouse droppings, signs of living things, living in this like hoarded mess, that was like unsanitary right. So I remember like, she forcibly like made a few of us, like me, my mom, and I think my aunt was there too, like help her clean up all this stuff. So I'm thinking that she probably did not like that. And so I'm guessing that it you know, was the 00:31:00Japanese side of our families who didn't really address like what was going on with all of that.

JJ Ueunten: Thank you. Yeah. Definitely feel free to answer or not, but are there kind of things that like you see in yourselves that you feel like are, are like related to what your family experienced and, then maybe also kind of like how, yeah, how you think about that or...

Janelle Flores: Here. I'll go first. So one of the things my grandfather said to me when I was a kid was, I was the black sheep of the family. And I don't know why he said that. But to me, my grandfather was so funny and like so kind. He 00:32:00was like my, one, like really my favorite person to be around. There was just something calming about him that I gravitated to maybe 'cause he didn't tell me what to do all the time, more than other people in the house. I'm not sure. But he definitely was so interesting to me. And then he had all these friends, like all his mechanic buddies at the auto shop like around the block. And I used to go there after school like when I was in first grade and kinda sit there until he was done with work. And then I would go home, you know? So, and I think that because I like value him and I think about you know... It's interesting 'cause 00:33:00when I was younger, I thought that you know, he married this white woman who, nobody else did. Like my Auntie Yae married someone from the camp and stayed in Idaho. And then my Uncle Victor like never got married. He was sort of like a hermit type of person, you know? But, which is another sign, I feel like, of probably some trauma. Right? Like he didn't have any friends. He like rarely ever left the house. I talked to him though. I felt close to him as well. But I do, like I used to think like, "Man, my grandfather like did do stuff that wasn't like what everybody else chose to do." And I always kind of like thought that that spirit was like living inside of, of me a little bit because you know, my father, my biological father is actually Mexican. I'm coming from this like white and Japanese household. Like even I am like this product of like sort of 00:34:00like a rebellious like you know relationship 'cause my parents had me when they were teenagers. Like, I, I just always thought that like maybe I was a like black sheep too kinda? Where I was like not like everybody else you know? Like literally, like I'm not like... My physical features, like I look different right? I'm, I got a lot of personality. Like I feel more extroverted than like the family I was growing up with. Like I feel like maybe I was a little bit different. And then I think that that kind of motivated me to like just be... Just like, it, it's okay for me to have, like what's you know, some people refer to as a "strong personality" right? I'm gonna ask questions, I'm curious, I'm gonna to try to find out. I'm not always going to just do what everybody wants, you know? Because I want to know more. I want to be able to like function in a 00:35:00healthy way. I also feel like I'm different from like my mom even and like her sisters, like my aunts. Because I feel like I need to tell this story. I like, I want to respect my grandfather. My great-uncle Victor raised me essentially. Like he, you know I had a young, very young parents. So he was another adult in my home where I could just go over to his apartment and he would watch me. Like I respect them so much that I feel like I need to, you know, my active I guess like organized rebellion is just to continue telling the story and keep myself interested and not you know avoid it right? So I can see like in those ways like how I've intentionally been you know, make, made choices based on my family history and like my experience with those people. But I also think too that 00:36:00there's probably a lot of trauma that I had to live through like with my mother and you know like our sister is correct in saying sometimes our mother likes to avoid some conflicts or like talking about things that seem really intense or you know tough conversations. She doesn't necessarily like to have those or can't comfortably have those. And so you know I'm thinking I probably had to learn along the way how to be able to have tough conversations right? Like I've intentionally done the work to get to this place where I can meet someone and just you know admit like how our family history has affected us. But I'm pretty sure as a younger person, maybe I, you know I was... Like people would describe me as quiet and shy, which is I think probably how they would describe our mother. So I think I've like, like tried to figure out how to grow just to be 00:37:00more confident in being able to talk about things like this.

Julie Wernick: It's hard for me to say like what qualities I have from my grandparents on my mom's side because I just like didn't know them well. But I do also feel like an obligation to, to tell their, like learn as much as I can about their story and like educate people around me about it. Just because the story will get lost if we don't talk about it because it, it is barely documented. And, and like the issue of, of like violent displacement and 00:38:00incarceration has been, has, was also part of my, my dad's mom's history as a, a Holocaust survivor. So it just feels like a issue that I like need to fight extra hard against like to honor their, their histories.

JJ Ueunten: Do you want to say a little bit about kinda... Yeah about like what fighting like incarceration...(inaudible)

Julie Wernick: Wait, you got kinda quiet. I can't hear it.

JJ Ueunten: If, if you wanted to kind of say what like fighting like incarceration and like violent displacement that kind of is on both sides of your family like looks like for you, or...

Julie Wernick: It has meant like making or finding like Japanese American community and Jewish community and, and like learning from others in the community and like building solidarity with other people who are going through this like this kind of oppression and just like yeah, asking, like my sister 00:40:00said, asking like the tough questions to others and to myself and like speaking up when I can.

JJ Ueunten: Thank you.

Janelle Flores: I think it's interesting too that we have this other like example in our family. Our grandmother who was a refugee of the Holocaust. And on that Jewish side of the family, like they tell the story. You know, like it is totally a norm to tell your story, especially if you need to talk about like what happened during World War II right? And you know like, we even have Passover where it's a tradition as a whole family to sit and gather and have dedicated formal time to be able to retell some of that story. So for us, I 00:41:00think it's interesting, like my sister brought it up, that you know we have these examples of you know some historical traumas around like people you know being threatened and you know violence and being incarcerated, and you know we know that it's okay to tell the story. It's just that within our Japanese community, it's not as easy. It's not a norm, not yet, right? So, and you know we've lost like those people who have like you know the, the like, direct story to tell, right? But, like I guess in a way, we just feel like we need to make the best of what we do have to be able to talk about that. So I'm thinking that like being exposed to our grandmother who is able to talk about her leaving Luxembourg and you know having to go to the Dominican Republic and living there 00:42:00and what that was like and like what happened with her family. And like just you know having that example has helped us like understand how important it is to, to know and to be able to like talk to each other about what happened.

JJ Ueunten: So, oh, I did want to talk a little bit...anything you like...Chicago and then...getting that four-flat...Any other things about post-war either in Chicago or Cleveland that you know about that you want to share?

Janelle Flores: Okay. I think you asked is there anything else about post-war 00:43:00Chicago that we could share?

JJ Ueunten: Yeah. I'm sorry. Sometimes the audio on this computer is not so good. Yeah either Chicago or Cleveland or any kind of post-war Midwest kind of experience.

Janelle Flores: So one thing that I thought was really interesting was like the last time I had joined your group for a workshop. Like, there was a reference to Japantown. And I was like, "Japantown? Where's Japantown?" Like I, I was like, like I would go to Japantown all the time if I knew that there was a Japantown in Chicago. And that's like my first thoughts like processing this reference right? And then there was more talk about where exactly that was. And then it was like, "Oh, that was our neighborhood." Like I had never occurred to me that 00:44:00our neighborhood was Japantown. Like I grew up in Japantown. Like I had never thought that in my whole life. Like I am Chicago, born in the city, not the suburbs. Like publicly educated you know like, runnin' through alleys and stuff when I was a teenager, like taking the train everywhere, you know like out and about right? Like, love my city and like try to get to know my city as best as I can. And how did I not know that I grew up in Japantown? And then I started thinking about it you know 'cause it's not like Chinatown. Like I know where Chinatown is. I know that when I get there, I know when I'm there. It looks a certain way. Like there, they you know, it's freely like expressing its culture right? Same with like Little Village. I know when I'm in Little Village. Like it's freely expresses its culture like within that neighborhood. I never thought that, even though I grew up in it, that that neighborhood was like a Japantown. 00:45:00And so like I started thinking back to you know all the places that I had gone as a kid, the JASC, you know especially around holiday time or like the summer rummage sale like for teriyaki and udon. You know like that was a ritual for us in our community. And then we also like went to the grocery store, which on Clark Street. And then you know there were other like Toguri's like on Belmont. like I was like, "I've been going to these places the whole time. And I didn't realize the reason why they're there is because this is the community, the Japanese community of Chicago." And I wish that you know like I had understood that better because maybe we could have like kept it that way, you know? But our friend who, his name's Jose, who did this documentary with us, asked me a really great question, which he was like, "Do you think that the assimilation of like 00:46:00these relocated families was successful?" And I had never been asked that before. But then after like going to Minidoka and experiencing everything and then reflecting on that idea that nobody had ever advertised in the city that this neighborhood was the Japanese community that I like realized like, "Yeah, assimilation was successful." My grandfather married a white woman. Like we, you know, the family, like the other generation of my aunts like and my mother like became middle class. They left that neighborhood and moved to other spaces. You know like that neighborhood is not... Like those places I mentioned, like Toguri's is gone. The Japanese grocery store, I can't even remember the name of it, on Clark is gone. I have a friend who's Japanese too. And they used to have the jewel, their family used to have the jewelry store, Frank's like Jewelry on Clark Street as well. Like that's gone. Like I just realized like, assimilation 00:47:00worked. Like, all these people were like introduced back into these communities, but we didn't like survive. Like our culture didn't survive those places and got dispersed. And I don't know. I was just like, how did that happen? Like I loved, I love being Japanese. You know like I liked these places in my communit... I'm so grateful that JASC was there, or is still there. But I just, it, like it happened to us you know? And I don't know how it happened. It just did.

JJ Ueunten: Thank you. Julie, did you kind of grow up going to like Japanese places or with any kind of Japanese community?

Julie Wernick: No, I don't even think I knew I was Japanese for, I don't know, probably maybe until late in elementary school. It yeah, I did, I don't think I 00:48:00was really told. Yeah. So no, I didn't really grow up with that. I, I did have like a lot of Asian and like Asian American friends growing up and I like felt very like, very like comfortable with their families and would like eat dinner with them and, all the time. Like my mom would make Japanese foods. And so that was like I guess part of the culture. But, but it didn't, it still didn't occur to me that like I, like I was Japanese. Yeah I don't think I realized until 00:49:00later on, like probably fifth or sixth grade that I was Japanese. And I was going to say about the, about Japantown, and what my sister was talking about. When I, I think my first connection in Chicago with the JA community happened when I was at the JASC for a, a like joint Shabbat dinner with the Jewish Council on Urban Affairs. And it was like my first time being in a space that was Jewish and Asian, I guess, I mean aside from being with my family. And, and a, a community member was like asking me about my background and my family. And 00:50:00I told her that, that our grandfather worked at Autoport and then like a light bulb went off. And then she was like, "Oh, Autoport." And then she just like started naming all these people that my grandfather hung out with. And then I brought that information back to my mom and then that got her talking more about my grandfather. So yeah, even though there wasn't like a, a formal Japantown, like these, there were like really strong relationships and still a community.

JJ Ueunten: Yeah I feel like I could just ask more... Now? Oh okay cool. --Like 00:51:00an hour, and so you know I feel like I could definitely ask more. But I wanted to see if there's like stuff that you want to make sure to share that you didn't get a chance to before we close.

Janelle Flores: I think the last thing I will share... And Julie, you can stay on too you know if you want to. But the last thing I will share is like I worry about my daughter. She doesn't know these things. She doesn't have that older generation to teach her like I did. You know I grew up with my grandfather. He 00:52:00was like, my grandfather and my uncle were my male figures. Like I, my biological father, I didn't really like know him well. He was not in my life. Like those were my father figures. My uncle Victor and my grandpa Jimmy. And like I just like worry about like her knowing those things. And you know we had tofu on the table like every night. Like that was a norm. You know, that doesn't happen in our house. And you know all those things matter. Like the food, the relationships, knowing the neighborhood, like those things are not there anymore. So I just hope that you know, I eventually teach her in a healthy way like who she is and the history. And you know maybe she'll carry it forward too whenever you know the day comes where I can't anymore. So yeah, just hoping to 00:53:00make sure I'm a good role model in that way for her. Okay see you, I, I'm going to go. But Jules, do you want to stay on?

Julie Wernick: I don't have much more to add. I just want to thank you JJ for documenting our stories.

JJ Ueunten: Yeah, thank you so much. It was really, it was really great to, to get to hear some of it. And yeah, thank you so much.