Yamaji, Masao (10/2/2018)

Anna Takada: This is an interview with Masao Yamaji as part of the Japanese American Service Committee and Chicago Japanese American Historical Society Oral History Project. The interview is being conducted on October 2nd, 2018 at about 1:15 PM at the JASC in Chicago. Masao Yamaji is being interviewed by Anna Takada of the Japanese American Service Committee. So to start, can you just state your full name?

Masao Yamaji: My full name?

Anna Takada: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Masao Yamaji: Masao Yamaji.

Anna Takada: And where and when were you born?

Masao Yamaji: I was born in Los Angeles, California, March the 27th, 1935. I 00:01:00don't know what... At home. Yeah, it was a mid, midwife.

Anna Takada: And did you have siblings?

Masao Yamaji: I had a, a brother and a sister. Brother is under me. And then the younger one was sister.

Anna Takada: You're the eldest?

Masao Yamaji: I'm the oldest. I'm Nii-san. Yeah.

Anna Takada: And can you tell me a little bit about your parents, what their names were and where they were originally from?

Masao Yamaji: Oh, my dad was named Roy Yamaji, actually, Roy Sanji Yamaji. We have a crazy situation in my family where I have two brothers and we all have 00:02:00different, we all are named differently. It's crazy, it's a crazy story how it happened. [NOTE: "Sanji" and "Yamaji" are alternate forms of the same last name. The kanji character for mountain can be read as either "san" or "yama".]

Anna Takada: You mean your, your father's family or your family?

Masao Yamaji: My family. My brother, my brother. On my birth certificate I have Masao Thomas Yamaji Sanji. I have Sanji and Yamaji. And I, I, I've always lived by the name of Yamaji. My brother, my brother under me, Ken, he was born about three years after, bef-- after me and he took, and he anyway has the name of Sanji. He ma-- when he got married he used, he... I guess his name became Sanji 00:03:00when he entered the Air Force, he entered the Air Force. An--

Anna Takada: And you're not sure how that happened, the two names?

Masao Yamaji: I'm not sure whether he didn't like the name Yamaji or what. But we grew, we all grew up Yamaji and after marriage, my two brothers have a different name. One's Sanji and one's Yamazi, he put a Z on the end of his name. I, I don't know how that happened, but that's, that's what we're living with now.

Anna Takada: And do you know where your father was from, Roy?

Masao Yamaji: Yeah, he was, I found out he's, he was from Wakuba, Japan. Wakuba Japan, and so, so was my mom actually. They were from the same area. [NOTE: placename as confirmed by immigration records appears to be "Wabuka" village in Wakayama prefecture]

Anna Takada: And what's your mom's name?

Masao Yamaji: Kazu, Kazuko, Kazuko Yamaji.

Anna Takada: And do you, do you know about how they met or how they ended up--

Masao Yamaji: It was an arranged marriage because the families I guess they knew each other in, in the old country, farming in Tacoma, Washington.

Anna Takada: What kind of farm did they have?

Masao Yamaji: I think was it a, was it tomatoes? Or some kind of, maybe some kind of fruit. I'm not sure what it was. Tomatoes or... I can't remember.

Anna Takada: Do you know what year they came to the U.S.?

Masao Yamaji: Oh God, no. I, I don't know that. I don't know. I forgot.

Anna Takada: And...

Masao Yamaji: But he, my dad came with his dad. That's right. They came here from... And he was the second son and the older brother stayed in Japan. And he 00:05:00came here with his dad. And then they, I don't know, he was working in the maybe fishing, fishing industry in, near Seattle.

Anna Takada: Do you have any ideas about why they came, why they decided to come to the U.S.?

Masao Yamaji: I guess they, they were having a tough time. And so they, he was, they came out here and the older brother stayed in Japan and they were going to settle down and try to send money back, yeah.

Anna Takada: And so, by the time you were born, was that on the farm that your family had?

Masao Yamaji: Well, what happened was I, I found out my dad and my mom well they 00:06:00arranged, it was an arranged marriage. She was married, they married, and she was still in high school. They didn't tell anyone. And... oh, God... Then they, after they told everyone that they were married, they, they left, they left together and went to California. And that's where I was born. So I think that's why they got married because my mom was pregnant and, and she had, they couldn't yeah, she still had a year to go in high school, I guess. I'm not sure the whole story there either. We found out later on, my sister and her, her sons, they 00:07:00traveled to Japan and visited the old town and they had, they had a really great time there and found out a lot about the family.

Anna Takada: So can you tell me a little bit more about your memories of growing up in L.A. and--

Masao Yamaji: You know, I don't have many memories 'cause I know I started school there. I was in garte-- in kindergarten. I recall crying when it was time to go to school. I other than that, I don't remember too much about my school days. You know, my mom had a bunch of photographs, but I, I can't connect with what was going on in the photos.

Anna Takada: What were the photographs of?

Masao Yamaji: Oh, being held by the babysitter or pedaling on my bi-- on my tricycle, you know things like that. I guess we'd had a place to stay and some neigh--, neighbors. My dad ran a grocery store. He, he was running a, I think it was a grocery store in San Pedro, California, just close by.

Anna Takada: Okay. And at that time, was that more of a, a city environment or more rural?

Masao Yamaji: It was more of a city environment, yeah. So, my dad was working and my mom would just stay, stay at home taking care of me.

Anna Takada: Mhmm.

Masao Yamaji: But I don't remember too much about the home life in, in L.A.

Anna Takada: As far as kind of like home life within your family, what languages were, were being spoken?

Masao Yamaji: Oh, it was Japane-- they talked Japanese. So I, until the age of five, I, I spoke Japanese too you know, when I was a kid.

Anna Takada: Was that your first language then?

Masao Yamaji: I guess so, yeah. But I'm sure my mom was talking to me in English. You know they didn't, they didn't want us to become Japanese. They wanted us to become American. You have to learn that, you know. You wanted, yeah, you had to talk English.

Anna Takada: So, just for one second, sorry to interrupt this. I'm just going to 00:10:00move this light a little bit again.

Masao Yamaji: Yeah, oh.

Anna Takada: Background does not film.

Masao Yamaji: Okay.

Anna Takada: All right. Would you mind just looking at me? Okay. This seems to be better.

Masao Yamaji: Okay. All right.

Anna Takada: All right, sorry about this.

Masao Yamaji: All right.

Anna Takada: Okay. So back to, to family life.

Masao Yamaji: Yeah, I don't...

Anna Takada: Were your, were your family, or were your parents religious at all?

Masao Yamaji: They weren't, yeah, I, I didn't know anything about religion. They weren't church going, but the family, well I know they were Buddhist.

Anna Takada: Okay.

Masao Yamaji: But they just didn't, they didn't go to church.

Anna Takada: Mm-hmm (affirmative). And so you... Let's see, you were six years 00:11:00old when the war broke out.

Masao Yamaji: Yes.

Anna Takada: Do you have any memories of...?

Masao Yamaji: Of the war breaking out? No. I don't. Only what I've seen on, on the radio or whatever. I had no, I had no idea what that was.

Anna Takada: And how about evacuation or when it was time for your family to leave?

Masao Yamaji: Oh yeah, I, I remember the packing up, going to the Santa Anita racetrack. That's where we were, we were taken. The stables.

Anna Takada: So...

Masao Yamaji: The army bed, the cots.

Anna Takada: So would you, if you do have memories of, of this as a child do 00:12:00you, do you have any... Well, let me rephrase this question. Do you have memories of how you felt or kind of where you were at?

Masao Yamaji: Well, I don't. I, I, I don't think I was scared. I had my parents with me and everything seemed to be calm. We were being fed. There were hundreds of other people that looked like everyone else. And I was just waiting in line. And yeah, I thought it was a routine. We went to school.

Anna Takada: This is in Santa Anita?

Masao Yamaji: In the Santa Anita racetrack we went to school in the, on the, I guess it was the grandstand. And they had portioned, settled people, class here, class here. That was, that was the class. As a kid, I thought it was you know 00:13:00just part of, part of going to school. They fed us.

Anna Takada: At that point did you have your younger siblings with you?

Masao Yamaji: Yeah, we were all together. Just, just--

Anna Takada: Okay, the three of you, the three kids?

Masao Yamaji: Yeah three of us.

Anna Takada: Mm-hmm (affirmative). And so how old would they have been? Or what was--

Masao Yamaji: Let's see I was, well I was six, they were three... four years, four years younger. Six... Four... Six... Two? My God, he must have been two or three my brother. And then my sister was just, just one year older. Yeah, one or two years old. God.

Anna Takada: And do you remember the, the space that you were in?

Masao Yamaji: Just a space like sta-- little stables where the horses were housed? So we had the beds, the beds for all of us. Army, army blankets. I remember the blankets, the, the straw-filled mattresses and the beds, beds sinking into the black, I don't know, tar or whatever the floor was, yeah. The smell of the straw and the whatever other odors there were in the stable. It was, it's kind of weird.

Anna Takada: And would you happen to remember if you had any con--, conversations with your parents about, you know like, did they explain where you were going or what's going on? It was just kind of...

Masao Yamaji: No, they never... I, no, other than I, later on when we were in 00:15:00the camps, my grandfather told, told us that, "Don't worry, when Japan wins the war, we'll get out of here. Get out of these camps." That's all, that's what we believed. That's what I believed anyway.

Anna Takada: And so you were there with your grandfather as well. Any other family besides your immediate family?

Masao Yamaji: I think my aunt, I think my aunt, aunt and her family. I think she had only one, one or two, 'cause I have, there's photographs of, of us. That was my, my mother's brother's family.

Anna Takada: And, any other memories about Santa Anita?

Masao Yamaji: Oh, waiting in line for the meals. I think there was wait in shifts or one group was A group or B group or whatever. They had little, I think they had, we wore buttons to go into the mess hall and I can't remember what we ate. God, I, I wonder if we had rice. We always needed rice. I can't remember what, what we had.

Anna Takada: And so do you have, do you know how long your family was in Santa Anita?

Masao Yamaji: I can't remember. I know it's, it's on the records. It wasn't that long. Yeah. Then they, we went to Arkansas.

Anna Takada: Can you tell me a little bit more about--

Masao Yamaji: About...

Anna Takada: --what happened to your family after Santa Anita?

Masao Yamaji: Oh, getting on the trains. Oh god, it was dingy, dark and dingy trains. And, and it was kind of scary on the train. They, they wouldn't let us look out the window. All the shades were drawn, so it was really kinda dark. And, and just, I can't believe we rode on that train to Arkansas, you know? I think about it. I don't remember having to go to the washroom, or what, whatever the heck, I don't know, where the heck did I go?

Anna Takada: Yeah, it must have been a, quite a long trip.

Masao Yamaji: Yeah, it must've been two or three days at least. Huh. Wow. My God. That must have been horrible for my parents with all the noise, people 00:18:00crowded, god. The luggage, you had to carry what you had. My God, man. I don't know what the heck my, how my, how my folks did it, you know? My god.

Anna Takada: Do you know how old they were at the time of all of this?

Masao Yamaji: Oh God, my, my mom must have been 17 or 18 years. No, she was young. Maybe 18 years old? My dad was older. He was, he was at least 10 years older.

Anna Takada: So from Santa Anita, your family took a train ride to Rohwer. What are some of your memories about Rohwer?

Masao Yamaji: Oh, well, fooling around. Playing with the kids. Playing with 00:19:00friends that I made. In fact, I still have in Chicago, I have a couple of friends that I met in Rohwer when we were 7... 6, 7 years old. Met them in the schools. And then when we moved here, they moved in the same area you know on, on the North side. So I, so I think that's fantastic I still have these friends from 70 years ago. (laughs)

Anna Takada: And, so how did--

Masao Yamaji: In Rohwer, yeah, oh wow, man, oh, the mud you know? Muddy. At 00:20:00times muddy, god. Oh yeah, but at times, we kids, we fooled around and playing, making up stuff with things that we could find. We played with the sticks and throwing balls around. There were barracks, the barracks we would, one guy would be on one side and one kid goes to the other side of the barracks, and we tried to throw the balls over the roof. My God, we used to do some crazy, they would make things up, you know, make things like blow guns, finding pipe, rolling up newspaper or magazine covers, magazine pages. Rolling them up into a little dart 00:21:00and, and blowing it through a, the pipe, the lead pipe. If you could find something to put, to put in the front of the piece of paper you know so it could, it would stick like a dart. We made up all kinds of games. Played ball, baseball. Oh my God. When we used to go out of the camp, no, I, I don't know why. There were no guards. All the guards had gone. The watch towers are there, but all the guards are gone. The fences, the barbwire was useless, you know, you could go right through the barbwire. And we did. We went, the kids went out roaming around in some, by the woods. There was a little stream, fooling around, 00:22:00making , making fishing poles, getting some string sticking on the end tie, and we would tie some bait or whatever, whatever we could get from the kitchen and throw it into the water and try to catch crayfish that would grab the, the bait and then we'd pull them up. We didn't eat the crayfish, it's, just caught them.

Anna Takada: Did your, were your parents or were adults aware of the kids going out to play?

Masao Yamaji: You know what? I don't know. I don't, I know we never told them we were, what we were doing, so my gosh, we were fooling around and there were, there was poisonous snakes, snakes around. I didn't even worry about snakes or anything. We never got into any trouble. No, no accidents. We were lucky.

Anna Takada: Yeah. And I imagine that there are a number of "city kids" who were...?

Masao Yamaji: Oh, oh yeah. And they, well we, we had to go to schools, we did go to school and, and my god, the little, little chairs and little rectangular, rectangular tables we sat at. I just have good, good memories of school. They had Japanese schools you could go to after, after school. Some kids did that.

Anna Takada: Did you ever have to go to Japanese school back in L.A. before the war?

Masao Yamaji: Never. No, I didn't, I didn't start, you know I had no idea what the heck I was. I don't know if I was, if it was, my folks never talked about 00:24:00it. I, you know, when I think about it they didn't talk about it or even when we got here, they never, they never talked about their feelings or what we, what they did, yeah. But camp, camp to me was running around and discovering things, you know?

Anna Takada: As far as the, the living quarters--

Masao Yamaji: Oh living quarters...

Anna Takada: --and the, the physical structures of Rohwer, how did that, what were they like or how did they compare to Santa Anita?

Masao Yamaji: Oh, okay. Well, it was more like a, a little residence the 00:25:00barracks had, it was divided up into one, two, three, four, I guess six maybe. And there was just rooms, bare rooms, army cots. They, we, they separated the area with ropes and rope hanging down to make like a little barrier. So we all, we all had our own bed. So it was kind of crowded because the people improvised to, to make it home, home-like.

Anna Takada: What do, what do you mean? Or how would people...

Masao Yamaji: Oh curtai-- trying to make curtains, you know. And, yeah otherwise it was the, the ro--, the rope and blankets tossed over the rope. Made little separations.

Anna Takada: Little rooms?

Masao Yamaji: Yeah. Yeah. Little rooms. Yeah.

Anna Takada: Did your parents work in camp?

Masao Yamaji: I think my dad had, he did something in the kitchen. I never, I never did see him working or anything. My mom just stayed and took care of the kids. Of course, my, I would be out with the, the boys fooling around after school. Of course, you had to tell my parents, you had to tell my mom what the heck I was, we were doing, or where were going. Just around the camp, you know. 00:27:00Because it's separated into little blocks. So each block is like a little community separate from each other and the, the bathrooms and everything. Every camp has its own mess hall.

Anna Takada: Do you remember any information about where your family was located or what your mess hall was or...

Masao Yamaji: You know, April, my niece, found out she had a little floor plan of the whole, whole camp. And we were in block six and she had, she got information from the, I don't know, I guess everything is recorded. And all the people that were in the camp and all the people that were, where they stayed, 00:28:00where they stayed in every one of the blocks. That was beautiful. She found that all out. And we, I know there was a laundry and my mom, my mom would take the clothes to get, to wash. And there was a girls' and boys'-- I mean woman's and, and men's side for toilets, baths. Early, my, I used to go, my mom, I went with my mom for to, to wash. And then later on I, I could go to the, they, they let me go and bathe with the, the other guys you know? Rather than going with her. And one time, I remember, one the older boys, the older boys, they had made 00:29:00something like this and they'd crawl over, and they'd crawl over to the woman's side. And they had made a little hole in, in the floor and they could peek, peek down into the women's washroom. And they're all laughing and laughing. And I was scared I was going to fall. So I didn't, I didn't dare look, go down and look, I might fall over. The crazy thing is I could be down there, you know, and I thought about that.

Anna Takada: What do you mean?

Masao Yamaji: Well, I could have been down there bathing while they're up there, look, maybe looking down. I mean don't know what you could see 'cause I, but I, 00:30:00it was, that was what the younger, the older boys are doing.

Anna Takada: Mhmm.

Masao Yamaji: And I talked with a friend of mine, with my friend Ken, Kenny Hattori, and I was telling him this story about that and he says, "Yeah, we did the same thing, bunch of, bunch of boys. You're kidding, you did that too?" I said, "That must be boys are boys, right?" Yeah, yeah, who else would do that? So, oh we did crazy, there was one time, this is the truth, I don't know how in the world... We all, we all lined up maybe 20, 10, 15 guys. And we all held hands and one guy would stick his hand, his finger into the light socket, electrical light socket. Oh my god, so the jolt would go through and it would 00:31:00end, the first, the last guy would get to the... And I did that one time, and then I thought, "This is crazy", they're laughing and we were laughing. Think about it, we could have all died right there. Oh my god, I don't believe we did such a thing, man.

Anna Takada: Were you ever bored in camp? Sounds like you were up to a-- there were lots of activities and...

Masao Yamaji: All kinds of stuff. Yeah, that's true. You could go out and fool around, you know?

Anna Takada: I know you mentioned that you don't have a whole lot of memories of you know, before camp.

Masao Yamaji: Yeah.

Anna Takada: But if you, if you had to think about it and I guess kind of 00:32:00compare maybe your family life or you know, as a child from before and then in camp, what were some of the...

Masao Yamaji: The family life?

Anna Takada: Mm-hmm.

Masao Yamaji: God, it was the same, I guess. I can't, my, my mom and dad I can't believe you know I, they never seemed to be complaining. They never complained to us about anything. We all kinda went along with it, I, it's hard to believe it, but we did. Yeah, we ordered, they ordered clothes from the Sears and Roebuck, you know we had... I, I don't know where the heck the money came from. 00:33:00I don't know what kind of cash we had.

Anna Takada: Another question that just came to mind. Did you have, were you in Rohwer with any friends or you know pals that you had either made or known from Santa Anita?

Masao Yamaji: No. No, I didn't, I don't think so. And all the people, yeah I, I made friends. I made friends in camp that are still my friends. There must, there's quite a few, yeah. Well, in the early days anyway, because we all came to Chicago and it was a big community in, on the north side where we, where we 00:34:00were. That was '45. That was '45. My dad came here early. He came here in '44 to find you know, get resettled with the Resettlers.

Anna Takada: Mhmm. So, before we, we get into some of your experiences in Chicago, is there anything else you want to share about any memories or...

Masao Yamaji: Like camp life?

Anna Takada: Yeah, about camp life.

Masao Yamaji: Oh my gosh. Wow. well, the, the days were really I guess just short, I mean days were short, it was fast. It went by, as a child, I know we 00:35:00made things and I had my friends who, gosh, we, we, we made crazy things to play with you know. Army, army shell casings, big round, round I guess, bullets or projectiles were housed in these round things. They, they made things with them.

Anna Takada: Why were those in camp, those types of things?

Masao Yamaji: They must have been left over from some Army soldiers being there. I never saw any soldiers, like in the photos where they're guarding, I didn't, I didn't see any in, in Rohwer.

Anna Takada: Did you see, do you remember seeing any non-Japanese folks?

Masao Yamaji: I remember seeing non-Japanese. They were teaching, I think, or maybe the nurses. Other than that, I didn't, I didn't see any non-Japanese. And I can't remember seeing any black people. I thought, wow, I mean think of it. There's all kinds of black people around there now, you know? We used to go out of the camp and visit a little grocery store in McGee. And we had just very little money, but we went there to buy, buy candy.

Anna Takada: Was that with your family or with friends?

Masao Yamaji: Yeah, with my friends, not with my family. They were all, they never went. If they went out of the camp, I didn't, I didn't know about it.

Anna Takada: And how did that work? Were you just kind of leaving camp or was there an organized like get everyone on a truck type of?

Masao Yamaji: No, no, no. We walked. Yeah, we walked. God, I don't know where the heck it was, but I know that there was a grocery store.

Anna Takada: Did you do that a few times or?

Masao Yamaji: A few times. A few times to buy candy or pop or something, like I know that, wow.

Anna Takada: Did locals have any kind of reactions toward you?

Masao Yamaji: No. Never had any... No, never had any reaction. I didn't feel it anyway. That only happened yeah later on when I came here. Yeah. Like I said, I can't remember me seeing any black people, wow.

Anna Takada: So I, I also wanted to make some time to talk about the, your recent trip. You had mentioned that you and your family had gone to the site of Rohwer. Your niece had organized a, a family trip.

Masao Yamaji: Yeah.

Anna Takada: So, can you tell me more about that?

Masao Yamaji: Oh gosh.

Anna Takada: It was this past weekend. Is that right?

Masao Yamaji: This past weekend, Saturday and, Saturday and Sunday. It was really fun. Really saw it kind of exhausting. And it was hot. It was warm down there. Luckily it didn't rain. The people were friendly. Oh yeah, real nice. We went to the museum and the woman there, Kate, Katie, Kathy, or... She was so 00:39:00nice. My god, she working hard. She said she'd been working there since, since the museum started or something a while back. She was born down there. And then we met the Consul General, a guy named Kobayashi, Consul General. He was from Nashville, something like that. He was there looking at the museum.

Anna Takada: And so how was that... Can you tell me more about you know, how and why your family organized that trip?

Masao Yamaji: My niece, A-April, she attended when we went, when I went to the 00:40:00reunion, all camps reunion at JASC. You, that's where I met you.

Anna Takada: Mhmm.

Masao Yamaji: Wow. She was interested in that, she started, I, I would like to go. She brought her camera, she brought all kinds of stuff and she wanted to take, take the information and she wanted to know what was going on. That's when she became interested in the, the whole, the whole project. And I guess she, she went online and found out all kinds... And she called down, down to Rohwer. And then she met a, a gal who, whose mother was former mayor of McGee. So they, they, she became, in touch, she got in touch with this girl, Rosalie, I can't 00:41:00remember what her last name was, we went to her house.

Anna Takada: And who in your family was on this trip?

Masao Yamaji: Oh, my family? Oh, my daughter and her two sons. One, one daughter.

Anna Takada: I, I guess the, the group, who was in the group? Was it all family or...

Masao Yamaji: No, no all fami-- not all family. But another, another former internee, Kenny Hattori, his, his wife, Nobuko and their daughter.

Anna Takada: And you said Kenny was in camp?

Masao Yamaji: Ken, Kenny Hattori was in camp. And another friend of mine, Raymond Ishino, was in that camp too. And he's, he's over at Heiwa. He's a resident of Heiwa. So, then who else is there? Hiko, a guy named Hiko Hattori, 00:42:00Kenny's brother Hiko and his daughter. Really fantastic.

Anna Takada: What-- Oh sorry, what was that like for you to go back up there?

Masao Yamaji: Oh God. It was interesting. It's, it's nice down there. Very warm. It's, I can't believe that, you know they, what, what hardships they must have had I-- Gosh, man, it's a swamp there, you know? It's really muddy, and god... Wow... All farmland now. Wow god, makes you, makes you amazed that they, they 00:43:00lived through it so yeah, my god wow...

Anna Takada: Who are you, who are you referring to that they, when you say that "they lived through it"? Because you were...

Masao Yamaji: My folks, oh, I think my folks and the, all the elders, you know? Wow, god. They could, and the government could do that, you know? Wow. And nobody there knew what was going on. That's hard to believe, right? All the residents. 'Cause Mrs. Rosalie, she said she didn't know anything about it, but she became interested in it because she, she always liked Japanese art and she collected Japanese art. And then she heard about the, the camp and the, then she started collecting artwork from, from residents of Rohwer.

Anna Takada: Did anything else surprise you on this trip?

Masao Yamaji: Oh, my god what surprised me, man... I, that, that my, you know, my folks hardly, hardly talk about the camp, you know? What, what happened to them. I learned a lot about, I learned a lot in just going there, wow, man... Oh, and it's sad. The, the fact that you know other people didn't know, didn't know a thing about it, you know? Wow. How could that be? That's surprising. Huge 00:45:00place. And I hear that, that in Germany, the Nazi death camps, people supposedly didn't know it was there. I, that's hard to believe too.

Anna Takada: So with the time left, like I mentioned, we're interested in hearing from folks about their experiences moving to Chicago. So you mentioned that your father left early...

Masao Yamaji: Yes.

Anna Takada: --for Chicago. So can you tell me more about kind of that, that story and how you guys ended up getting to leave camp to move to Chicago?

Masao Yamaji: You know I, I know that he left early, and my, all I know is my 00:46:00mom's telling me that, that my dad is here setting up a place to stay and, and get a job and then he'll be sending for us. That was, that was all I, all I knew.

Anna Takada: How old were you by that time?

Masao Yamaji: So I was by that time, nine, eight, eight/nine, nine, nine years old yeah. Yeah I was nine when he came here.

Anna Takada: That was 1944 then?

Masao Yamaji: Yeah.

Anna Takada: And, so when he... Do you know anything about his, his job in Chicago?

Masao Yamaji: He had a job, Shotwell Candy Company.

Anna Takada: Shotwell?

Masao Yamaji: Shotwell Candy Company. That's what I remember. I think he worked 00:47:00at night.

Anna Takada: How long was he gone before sending for the rest of you?

Masao Yamaji: I'm not sure. All I know is he left. We left in like March or so of 1945. We, we were here before the war ended. Yeah, we heard about the bombing, the bombing when we were on the south side.

Anna Takada: So your father, your father came early and then sent for you all. Did he come back to the camp to travel with you?

Masao Yamaji: No, he didn't. We came alone, yeah we came without him, yeah.

Anna Takada: And did you, if you remember, did you go with anyone else or was it just your family?

Masao Yamaji: I can't, I can't remember who else came with, came with us. I 00:48:00think it was just our family. I, I don't remember, I don't remember these, coming here, you know? I don't remember... God, I must have been, so I must have been, we must have been so happy, my god. But yeah, when we got here it was very scary. I really was scared seeing all the, the cars and oh god, it's such a new place, you know? The big buildings right on 3985 South Drexel, my god...

Anna Takada: So you, your family went to the south side?

Masao Yamaji: Yeah, I went Oakenwald Grammar School and then, in 1947, that was in fifth grade, so, in 1947 we moved to a little farther to 43rd and Greenwood. 00:49:00And, and then I went to Shakespeare, Shakespeare Grammar School. So we stayed there till I was in high school. My dad bought a... He saved money, bought a store on 43rd and Drexel.

Anna Takada: What kind of store?

Masao Yamaji: Grocery store. Oh, he, he had meat, yeah he, a butcher. He had fish, fish. He had everything. A little tiny store. We all worked there.

Anna Takada: Did he have any like Japanese produce or products?

Masao Yamaji: Oh yeah. Yeah. He had a lot of Japanese food 'cause all the Japanese were in the, in the area.

Anna Takada: Do you know the, the year that would've been that he opened that or started the business?

Masao Yamaji: Oh, he opened the store around 1950, '51 or something like that. I, I graduated grammar school in 1949. And when I was high school, I was, yeah, so maybe when I was a sophomore, maybe my second year he, he bought the store.

Anna Takada: What was it called?

Masao Yamaji: O.K. Grocery. Oh, it was, we he bought it from a former Japanese 00:51:00family called Okamoto. That's why the old O.K. comes from, but that's a good name, O.K. So my dad just left it O.K. And he stayed there until, gosh, 19, 1960, something like that, in the '60s. The neighborhood started to change, you know in 19, in the '50s, '51, '52.

Anna Takada: In what ways?

Masao Yamaji: The, the white people were moving out and the Black, Black people moved, started to move in. It was all, all white when we, when the Japanese were, well happened to you know, move in 1940, '45.

Anna Takada: What neighborhood was that considered at the time?

Masao Yamaji: Oakland, Kenwood. It's the Oakland Kenwood neighborhood. And I saw, I saw the neighborhood go from all white to Black. And of course there was fighting. Of course, the Japanese, when we first came there were subject to getting into fights and call, name calling. So... You know, Japs. Japs. And then the older, the older guys and my, the guys that I knew they would be fighting. Yeah.

Anna Takada: So this was when you were still in middle school or elementary school age?

Masao Yamaji: I was, yeah, I was in, so I'm in, yeah, 10, 11, fifth, you know 00:53:00sixth, sixth grade, fifth/sixth grade. But we, in our group, I, I'm sure you know, even though we might have been subject to racial taunts and stuff, we, that's why we all formed groups of guys and we all stuck together. The force in numbers.

Anna Takada: And so if you can help me kind of get a clear picture of sort of what it was like at this time really? So like soon after you arrived to Chicago and for the next couple of years. There were other Japanese American families moving in?

Masao Yamaji: Oh. Yes.

Anna Takada: Is that right?

Masao Yamaji: Yeah. Hundreds. Hundreds. All over the South Side from... All 00:54:00south-- All east of Cottage Grove. Cottage Grove was like the dividing line. The whites, whites were on the East Side and, of Cottage Grove and Blacks were on the West Side. So I guess then--

Anna Takada: And so where were, where was your family?

Masao Yamaji: We, we were, we were moved, we were on the white side, on, on the East side. Yeah. There weren't any, there were very few Blacks in the schools that we went to at that time, '40, '45. I can, I recall the first, first Black guy that moved into our class in Shakespeare. That'd be, what was that? Well, 00:55:00sixth grade? Sixth grade. Sixth, seventh grade. And that was, that was quite a happening for the one Black guy in the school, you know? There was a lot of Japanese in the school, and most, and other than that, there were a lot of Jews. So Jews. Jews and Japs.

Anna Takada: Did you personally experience discrimination or you know, issues with other kids? Non-Japanese kids?

Masao Yamaji: Oh, you know, not in school. Maybe on the street, maybe being called names or whatnot, but I never was gonna retaliate with any force. Yeah.

Anna Takada: And you mentioned the, the young, young boys kind of grouping together.

Masao Yamaji: Yes. We all grouped together.

Anna Takada: At what age did that start, and...

Masao Yamaji: Oh, that started when we were 13, 14 years old. Boy Scouts. My, my mom and dad worried about us. So did the other parents. And they made, they made us go to church. So we, we went to the Buddhist church, a lot of us went to a Buddhist church just to get it, keep... They had a Boy Scout troop.

Anna Takada: And so was this now BTC, but then it was Chicago Buddhist Church?

Masao Yamaji: Yes.

Anna Takada: Is that the one?

Masao Yamaji: It was Chicago Buddhist Church on the South Side. Reverend Kubose. Yeah. And th-they made us go there to, to probably keep us out of trouble, worried.

Anna Takada: And so did you have any other activities besides school, church, and Boy Scouts?

Masao Yamaji: Oh, well...

Anna Takada: Did you have to go to Japanese school?

Masao Yamaji: No, we didn't have to. I never did go to Japanese school. There was a Japanese school at, at the church. I never, I never did. Well, I played ball. We played ball. We got together and we'd, we'd go across the IC tracks on 43rd and go to the park. And that was like our domain, playing ball in the, in the park. Either football or baseball or we could easily go farther east and the 00:58:00water's there, we'd go swimming off, off the rocks and we had inner tubes. Everyone would carry the inner tube and we'd paddle out to the water, we were crazy. Just, "Come back! You're too far, too far away." Yeah, we, we would go diving into the water and, and collecting rocks, make a, make a platform, get all the rocks that we could find and make a platform so we could stand out there and, a bit with our head above the water. That was playing around.

Anna Takada: Was that in the lake?

Masao Yamaji: Playing around in the lake now. No swimming places. Yeah. Other than that, we didn't get into any trouble. We played ball until, in the summer, 00:59:00you know, played ball until it was dark. We all lived close by, so we all lived in that area close by.

Anna Takada: And so during this time, you mentioned your dad opened the O.K. Grocery in '50 or '51.

Masao Yamaji: Oh yes.

Anna Takada: So closer to when you were in high school. Was he at the candy company?

Masao Yamaji: No.

Anna Takada: The whole time until then, or? What kind of work?

Masao Yamaji: As far as I know he was.

Anna Takada: And do you know what kind of work he was actually doing at the candy company?

Masao Yamaji: I have no... No, I don't know. I don't know what he did there. I don't know how much money he was, he was able to save because he bought the, he bought the store, which of course, surprised the heck out of everyone. It 01:00:00surprised me. What? But it, it cut down. I had to, I was working now and I went into high school and I couldn't do anything. I wanted to play ball. I wanted to go on the swimming, try swimming. I wanted to try football. I tried out for football.

Anna Takada: And which high school did you go to?

Masao Yamaji: Hyde Park High School. Whole bunch of Japanese were there with me.

Anna Takada: But you couldn't do these activities because you needed to--

Masao Yamaji: Oh, because I, I started working. I had to help my dad.

Anna Takada: What, what kind of work were you doing in the grocery store?

Masao Yamaji: Oh, selling. You know, in those days there wasn't--

Anna Takada: Register...

Masao Yamaji: Yeah, the register, right. Old cranking, crank register. Oh God, 01:01:00that was a great, great little place. And it was a story where you know, it wasn't self-serve. You ran around and put things in a bag. Yeah.

Anna Takada: Yeah. Can you, do you have a pretty clear memory of what it actually looked like or how the store was organized? Like what, what size grocery store was it?

Masao Yamaji: Oh my God. It was tiny. Considering a store. They had, he had fruits and vegetables. He had, well, little, little Japanese bamboo crates. Bowls with maybe takuan in it and tsukemono you know, napa tsukemono and stuff. 01:02:00All, all in little with a glass cover, you know? And so people, the strangers would like, the little Black kids would come in and hold their nose, "It stinks in here." It was the takuan and what, a fish. We had fish. Oh, it was great, great smells right to us. Yeah. And tofu. Tofu was in an aluminum can. And you'd, you'd dip your hand in there to put the cover, put it in, then put the... yeah. It wasn't in a... nothing was packaged.

Anna Takada: And so that was your job to get people the--

Masao Yamaji: Oh yeah. I used to get all that. We, we served them, we served the customer. Cut up, they wanted one, somebody would want a couple slices of bologna, we'd slice it. What? Wrap it, weigh it, wrap it. I can't imagine.

Anna Takada: So you had produce and then a counter for meats maybe.

Masao Yamaji: Produce. Mm-hmm. We had meats, fish. My dad would do the, he butchered and he sliced up like maguro, the big tuna. Big tuna was shipped, I don't know from where, from California. He would cut up the tuna, I can't imagine how he did that. And then he would go, you know 5 o'clock in the morning, he goes, he goes out to the market to buy fruit and vegetable. Then he comes back with that. And then loads of... Like somebody would bring in a big 01:04:00beef, beef carcass and butchers would bring it in. Wow, god. Slap it on the table, cutting board. And he cut that up. And I, I don't know where the heck he learned how to do all that, but we didn't think anything of it, you know? Wow. And everything was fresh shipped from California. Huge, huge abalone or, or salmon, all kinds of salmon. Not, not in a, it wasn't frozen. It was all fresh California. Man.

Anna Takada: Sounds like he must not have had a whole lot of free time, you know, to run this business, there are lots of--

Masao Yamaji: No, he didn't have much free time. And yeah, he got home at 8, 01:05:008:00 or 9:00, closed the store up. We only lived around the block, so it was really short. Then he had, then he had a truck for delivery and that, and I delivered.

Anna Takada: Grocery goods to people's homes? Or--

Masao Yamaji: Yeah, grocery goods to homes. Even for 43rd, the store is on 43rd street. Sometimes I'd go to 80th Street. It's all on the South Side though. And, and I'd be delivering four or five hours, 100 pound sacks of rice. People would order a hundred pound sack. I don't know how in the world I did it, carrying it into the house. Wow. I, I can't even carry 50 pounds now! (laughs)

Anna Takada: And I'm sorry, how, how were you getting around to, for these deliveries?

Masao Yamaji: With a truck.

Anna Takada: With a truck.

Masao Yamaji: Panel truck. Green. Green. It was a green, I called it the Green Hornet. It was just regular panel truck, no seats in the back. Just--

Anna Takada: You said the Green...

Masao Yamaji: Green Hornet. I called it a Green Hornet. Yeah. I called it, sometimes my brother would, little brother would help me. So he'd, he'd sit, he would sit in the back. There was no seats, just sitting on the floor.

Anna Takada: And at this point in time, you were in high school and let's see, how old would he... would he have been in high school yet by that time?

Masao Yamaji: Nah, I was 17 or 18. Yeah. Yeah. 16, 17, 18. Yeah, I learned to 01:07:00drive at, at 17.

Anna Takada: Was that common for kids in the city to learn to know how to drive and...

Masao Yamaji: I think so, yeah if... Yeah. I know there weren't that many, not very many Japanese had a car. Yeah. But it was pretty cool. We all learned, we all learned to drive.

Anna Takada: And were, and in the grocery store, were there any dry goods, or?

Masao Yamaji: Yes, there were dry goods. We had the you know the nori and oh god... Noodles. Yeah. Besides that, he had the regular pop, Pepsi Colas, 01:08:00Coca-Cola, all that.

Anna Takada: As far as the, the Japanese products, do you know where he was getting those?

Masao Yamaji: Japan Foods. That's what I remember. Japan Foods.

Anna Takada: Was that a distributor?

Masao Yamaji: Yeah, big.

Anna Takada: And was that in Chicago?

Masao Yamaji: Big. And they're still around. Yeah. Big distributor. Japan Foods. And I guess he dealt with I don't... Some fish company that delivered the stuff from California. He used to send me to, to the north side, to Toguri's, to pick up stuff, or there were quite a few Japanese stores on, on the South Side, three, four of them.

Anna Takada: Can you remember, or do you remember their names or?

Masao Yamaji: Oh my God.

Anna Takada: Were there a lot of them?

Masao Yamaji: I think there was one, Mr. Fuji. Fuji, Fuji Market. Oh God. Who else was there? There was Franklin, god there was a, Franklin Foods. Gee. There were others. Two, three others. I can't remember them now. Wow. In fact, I would go there. We, we were all, we were all helping each other. If somebody needed something, I know my dad would. Yeah.

Anna Takada: The other, with the other businesses you mean?

Masao Yamaji: Yeah. Yeah.

Anna Takada: And as far as clientele, was it mostly other Japanese Americans?

Masao Yamaji: Yes. He had mostly Japanese people that, from camps. They were all settled around, they had all settled around the neighborhood. It's quite 01:10:00interesting. We kind of... wow. Then everyone else started, all the white people started moving out and then the area changed to Black. Yeah. And they were nice too. A lot of Black people came into the store. They were, they were fine. They were moving out too with other Blacks. They didn't like moving. So it wasn't... oh God. It wasn't pure Black there. It just where... oh, I don't know.

Anna Takada: Did young people, whoops, young people at that time, were they kind of intermingling at schools?

Masao Yamaji: Oh yeah. There was a group of guys around the neighborhood. They were called the Boys, Basement Boys.

Anna Takada: Basement?

Masao Yamaji: Basement Boys. That was they're called, they were called. They 01:11:00were all white guys. Now I know they did a lot of fighting, but I don't know, for some reason we became friends. We, we were friends with the Basement Boys, so we formed groups too, you know? There were, I was in a group called the Lancers, 20, there were 20 some odd guys in the group.

Anna Takada: And the Lancers was this mostly a, a JA group?

Masao Yamaji: All, all Japanese. There might, there might, there were a few, few white guys that became friendly.

Anna Takada: And can you, can you tell me more about these groups? What, what, what was their prompt and their purpose?

Masao Yamaji: Social, it was a social activities groups and, and sports too. 01:12:00They had, they formed, we all formed sports groups, football, baseball, and we played, maybe we played against each other. This is all, you know no, no league, just groups of guys playing against each other.

Anna Takada: So you had kind of organized any sports event yourselves?

Masao Yamaji: Yeah, we did. They organized it. And in fact, they used to, we used go and play Japanese guys on the, on the north side who are, who were doing the same thing. A group of guys. The girls did the same, girls, there were all kinds of girls groups. And then they would, one group would throw a dance and invite whoever to come.

Anna Takada: What are some of the names of the groups, if you can remember?

Masao Yamaji: God. Oh my God, I can't remember now. The group above us that, that took care of us, they were called the Ro Babes. You remember them? Ro Babes? Yeah. They, we became like their little brothers. And God, they were, my God, who else is there? Vikings? They were the like, oh geez. Wish I could remember them all now.

Anna Takada: Do you remember any of the girls groups?

Masao Yamaji: Oh, my God. Dawnelles. Oh, there were many. So there's hundreds of, I mean just, oh God. Colettes.

Anna Takada: Were there any...

Masao Yamaji: There's, there's many groups.

Anna Takada: And were there, were there ever any like conflicts, or rivalries between the groups?

Masao Yamaji: Conflicts between?

Anna Takada: Or was it mostly a friendly kind of organizing?

Masao Yamaji: Yeah, you're right. There was no fighting. No fighting among the group other than sport.

Anna Takada: Not games.

Masao Yamaji: Maybe sport fighting. Yeah. But other than that, there was no fist fights and yeah, anger, no, unless it's something happened at sports. Yeah. But no, we didn't fight each other, other than some crazy fight in a sport, but...

Anna Takada: As far as the Lancers, at what point did you join or help?

Masao Yamaji: We all joined at high school age. In fact, if, if I found, if befriended someone and they wanted to join a group, well then we, we would 01:15:00initiate them into the group. We didn't have any initiations and stuff like that. Just you became friends with everyone else.

Anna Takada: And where, what were some of the places that folks were either playing sports or?

Masao Yamaji: Oh, we used to go to, oh God, on... Olivet Institute on the North Side or from, there was, there was a Baptist church on the South Side. God, I can't remember all those places. Mostly the Olivet Institute was a very, very big place. And the Northsiders would go there and, and the south, we came all the way up to the North Side to play at the Olivet Institute, which, which had a 01:16:00lot of leagues and-- girls and boys leagues. And they had people that were taking care of the youth. And it was nice. That was all from JA-- JAC-- JACL. Yeah.

Anna Takada: Of course, as you know, in Chicago, there are a number of North Side--South Side rivalries, so to speak, Cubs-Sox, and...

Masao Yamaji: Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Anna Takada: So was there anything like that with the young people, sort of in those earlier years around the... late forties and fifties?

Masao Yamaji: There might have been, maybe fighting, but we didn't, we didn't have any group that I, that I remember anyway.

Anna Takada: So you, you mentioned, so at that time it must have been Resettlers Committee...

Masao Yamaji: Yes.

Anna Takada: That was involved with Olivet Institute. Were there other...?

Masao Yamaji: Mhmm. The guy named Abe Hagiwara? I remember him.

Anna Takada: Can you tell me a bit about him? Who was he?

Masao Yamaji: Yeah, oh, he, he set up so many groups. So much stuff for Japanese youth. Yeah, God.

Anna Takada: Do you know what his position was or how he was involved?

Masao Yamaji: I have no, I can't remember.

Anna Takada: Did you have a relationship with him?

Masao Yamaji: No, I didn't. Just, I knew him.

Anna Takada: Just knew of him?

Masao Yamaji: Yeah.

Anna Takada: What were some of the other Japanese American organizations or activities that were active at the time? You mentioned there was a lot happening at the Buddhist church,

Masao Yamaji: Yeah.

Anna Takada: --on the South Side. And you've mentioned Resettlers Committee. Were there other groups or...

Masao Yamaji: I can't remember any other, other, any other groups. Being in the Boy Scouts, I, I know we went to a lot of different churches but... Or to the cemetery, you know, 4th of July and stuff like, things like... some holiday...

Anna Takada: With the Boy Scouts?

Masao Yamaji: Yeah, with the Boy Scouts.

Anna Takada: What would you do at the centers?

Masao Yamaji: Just being there, I guess, in uniform and, yeah. Other than that, I can't remember.

Anna Takada: And so I think you said that, earlier that your father had O.K. 01:19:00Grocery for about 10 years?

Masao Yamaji: I think so, yeah. Yeah he--

Anna Takada: And did your family stay on the South side or...

Masao Yamaji: Yes. They preferred to stay on the South side. Now everyone was moving north.

Anna Takada: Japanese families?

Masao Yamaji: Yeah, Japanese families. A few, few Japanese families stayed on the South Side and they're still you know, still there. But it was, it's not that, so not a racial thing, but became tough, you know? Tough to... The neighborhoods are so scary, right? You don't want to, you don't want to contend with the fighting or whatever, man. So everyone, all the people moved north or west.

Anna Takada: But your family stayed?

Masao Yamaji: My family stayed. I, when I got married, I, I came north. My wife, my wife liked it on the North Side. She was a Northsider, so...

Anna Takada: What year was that, that you got married?

Masao Yamaji: 1960. Now, you know in 1960, I came north. We came north. We looked around Andersonville, right around on Berwyn and Clark. There were Japanese living there. And we, we went to one apartment and to look, and to look, and we were looking for apartment. And the, the custodian who showed us 01:21:00around says, he tells us, you know the owner doesn't want any non-Japanese-- I mean non-white, no one. I was surprised. "Is that right?" "Yeah." He said, "I'm sorry." I said, "Okay". Well, I'm telling him, "You know, there's Japanese people living around here already." Said, "I don't know. Okay, that's all right." And we just left. But other places I called and they asked, this one lady asked, "What is--" no, "What is your name?" and I tell her my name. "Where were you born?" Where was I born? I said, I tell her, "I was born in California." "Where was your mother born?" She went through the whole thing. 01:22:00"Where was your father born?" I'd tell her "Wakuba, Japan." "I don't think you'll like this apartment." It's like, I can't believe you're telling me that. All right, that's fine. I don't want to live there then, anyway. So that's what happened in 1960s, not too long ago. That's in the neighborhood where, gosh, you know Toguri's used to be right there on Clark. That, I said, well, that's Chicago. We find out, some, some person on the phone with an accent is telling me they don't want non, non-whites. I said, okay, that's fine. This is 1960. I think I called two or three places. And then we find, I finally call one on 01:23:00Rosemont and Ashland. And the lady says, "That's okay." Says, "We're Japanese."

Anna Takada: Almost like she--

Masao Yamaji: I told her that I, I'm, I'm Japanese. "We're Japanese." She says, "That's fine. Come on, I'm Japanese." "Oh, great."

Anna Takada: Almost like she knew that it could be a challenge for other Japanese to find housing.

Masao Yamaji: Yeah. You know that happened to me two times when I was in the Army. Me and a, a black guy, went into, we had a, we were going to a, a base after leave. We went into a bar. It was in St. Louis, I think. Asked for beer, a 01:24:00couple beers, you know, and they wouldn't serve blacks. My God. I get a beer and he, he can't have a beer. Oh, my God. I said, okay, we're just leaving. But that was 19-- That was 19-- when was that-- 1957. And we're in uniform, mind you. Wow. And we went to, we were in Lawton, Oklahoma, which is clo--, right by Fort Sill. Went into Lawton, Oklahoma. We had a, a leave, a, a leave for, for the day. And me and this Black guy, we couldn't, we couldn't, he couldn't go downstairs. He had to go upstairs at the balcony. "Are you kidding me?" "No, 01:25:00darn. I'm sorry. Only, only non-blacks, non-blacks can't, only non-blacks go downstairs." And I told him, then I, well I said, "I'm not Black." I, so says, you're not, you're not white. I mean, you're not, you're black. In other words, I, I couldn't go upstairs with him. I mean, I, I had to go downstairs, and he-- that was crazy. Lawton, Oklahoma. It was right outside of Fort Sill, Oklahoma. That was 1957. That's what happened to me, man. It was wild. It was wild. That's what happened all over, I guess, with, with people, restaurants and stuff.

Anna Takada: So we have a, a few more minutes left, just briefly. So after, so you graduated from Hyde Park High?

Masao Yamaji: Yes.

Anna Takada: And, and what year was that?

Masao Yamaji: That was 1953.

Anna Takada: Okay. And then, so what did you do after you graduated?

Masao Yamaji: I was working at my dad's store. I, I went to Chicago Technical College, me and another guy, one of my friends, Jack Wakasa, and we were going to become draftsmen. So I went to school with him there. It was about a year, and I just, I didn't like it. I said, no, I don't think I'll be a draftsman. He 01:27:00went on to become a draftsman. See, that '58. No wait-- that was '54 or '55. And I was working at the store, what else did I-- Anyway, I got drafted in '57. Yeah.

Anna Takada: And how long did you serve?

Masao Yamaji: I, so I went to the Army for two years, '57 to '59. And I fooled around a while. Went, oh I went to Navy Pier. Not Navy-- Yeah, Navy Pier had a university there.

Anna Takada: Mhmm.

Masao Yamaji: Yeah, I, I studied there. Oh God, what was I doing? I was going to study... Forgot what... It wasn't drafting. I took an accounting class. Draft. Yeah, drafting... No, it wasn't drafting. Art class. Couple classes. Anyway, I went there a year, a year. Then I came, yeah then I started helping my dad again.

Anna Takada: Still at the grocery store?

Masao Yamaji: Then, then I helped my dad at the grocery store. And then I got a 01:29:00call from the Army, from government. So I, I joined the Army. I was in the Army.

Anna Takada: And when you, when you got back, that's when you went to U of I at Navy Pier.

Masao Yamaji: Yeah.

Anna Takada: And then you got married in 1960?

Masao Yamaji: Yeah. Yeah.

Anna Takada: Mhmm. And your wife, how did you know her? Where did you meet?

Masao Yamaji: I had known her earlier. I mean, just by name. I didn't, well, we saw each other at social functions. She was, she was friends with other, other, other people that I didn't know, but I did meet her before. But we went bowling. My friend was going on a date with a girl to go bowling. And so he invited me, 01:30:00me and another guy. We, who was that? Jimmy, I think Jimmy. Anyway, Jimmy and me and George. George was going on the date. Well, we all, we tagged along with him. And then her sister was who I met, who we, who eventually we married. Gayle. And then that's when I, I met, really met her going bowling at the Waveland Bowl.

Anna Takada: And so just a, a couple of more questions before we wrap up. So you, you came to Chicago at a very young age, and you've been here since?

Masao Yamaji: Yeah. Since 10 years old. Wow, man.

Anna Takada: And when you think about, I guess, the, the Japanese American community of Chicago over time, in, in how, how has it changed, I guess?

Masao Yamaji: Oh, well, you know, when we first got here, we all kind of were, were tight, clan, and we saw more of each other, I think. And then now everyone has spread out, just, just going, you know? They don't just stick around. And I always think it's fantastic how it's too bad we didn't all stick together. But it's fantastic what they've done and well, I'm, I'm really proud of the Japanese people. Asians are, Asians are really amazing you know? Yeah I, I look at, I 01:32:00look at my friends and how well they've done, how well they've done, and then the offspring, their kids are just amazing. Wow right? Wow. We don't have to worry. We don't have to worry. They'll take, they'll take care of us.

Anna Takada: Another thing I wanted to ask you about, you mentioned a couple of anecdotes about racism experienced by yourself, your family, and friends.

Masao Yamaji: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Anna Takada: And I'm, I'm just wondering if you have any thoughts about, I guess-- again, this is kind of a, a then and now type question. But given some 01:33:00of the current political issues--

Masao Yamaji: Oh yeah. Oh my God--

Anna Takada: Just some of the different things that have been happening in recent years. As someone who has come from a background, you know your family was incarcerated essentially for being Japanese.

Masao Yamaji: Right.

Anna Takada: So do you have any, any thoughts or reflections?

Masao Yamaji: Oh, I, it scares me to think, it scares me to think all these, all these people, all kinds of people think like our president thinks. Wow, how can they be that way? But it's all, I guess it's always been that way, and then it seems like it's never going to change. And it's just like, nothing has changed in all these years, you know? The racial problems. When we went to Martin Luther 01:34:00King's memorial and think about he was shot--wow my God-- by some goof. And then he, the way he thinks, there's many people still thinking the same way. Nothing has changed in all these years. I don't know what it takes to, for people to wake up. My God. And it seems like it's happening all over the world now, doesn't it? God, what the heck is going on? I don't know how you change it. Man.

Anna Takada: One question I like to ask people on sort of the, the last note of this conversation is if you could share or pass down any kind of message or 01:35:00legacy with your children, your grandchildren, what's something that you'd really want to, to leave with them?

Masao Yamaji: Oh. Oh my God. I guess it's, all we need is more love. Just love each other. God. Oh man. There's so much hate, you know? It's easy, it's easy to hate, man. You don't, we don't know anybody until we meet them, right? Man, there's so many nice people. There's so many good people around. That, that makes you, and it kind of encourages you to think, wow, it'll be all right. Those people are, are here. So I hope. Yeah. I hope it's going to be a better place. It sure doesn't seem-- it's going to be a hell of a job to make it better 01:36:00or keep it better. Because there are good things going on, right? Yeah, I think so. Because I go, you know everyday you meet so many beautiful people. Yeah. I hope it keeps going that way, but I don't know. We gotta, we have to get rid of this Mr. Trump, but there's all kinds of other Trumps. Wow. That's what's scary.

Anna Takada: Well, thank you so much for taking the time and--

Masao Yamaji: Oh, yeah, you're welcome. You're welcome. I didn't think I was going to do anything. I said, well, I don't, what am I doing here, you know?

Anna Takada: Well, and are, are there any, do you have any last thoughts or anything that I might've missed in the conversation that you'd like to share?

Masao Yamaji: Oh, god no I... No. Yeah, you've been fine. I've enjoyed it.

Anna Takada: Good. Yeah. Thank you again for taking the time.

Masao Yamaji: Oh, you're welcome. Yeah, thank you.