Yoshino, Ron (2/7/2023)

Mary Doi: Today is February 7th, 2023. This oral history is being recorded at the JACL Chicago office, located at 5415 North Clark Street in Chicago. The interviewer is Mary Doi. The interviewee is Ron Yoshino. This interview is being recorded by the JASC Legacy Center in order to document the Japanese American redress movement in Chicago and the Midwest. This interview will differ from a normal conversation in that I won't use verbal cues and responses. Instead, I'll use facial expressions to communicate my interest in what you're saying because it makes for a cleaner transcript. You can decline to answer any question without giving a reason. You can take breaks whenever you need them. You can end the interview at any point. So, please make sure your cell phone is silenced.

Ron Yoshino: Okay.

Mary Doi: And I realize I, I didn't get a little background on you. So when were you born, where were you born and did you, what camp was your family in?

Ron Yoshino: I was born on July 4th, 1944 here in Chicago, and my parents were in Heart Mountain, Wyoming.

Mary Doi: So were you in camp?

Ron Yoshino: No, I was born in Chicago.

Mary Doi: Okay. Oh, that's right. That's what you said. Okay.

Ron Yoshino: I can give you a little history of how my folks got here if you'd like.

Mary Doi: No, I'm trying to keep this to--

Ron Yoshino: Okay.

Mary Doi: So this interview has four main sections. The first will be your involvement with the JACL Chicago chapter before Redress, your involvement 00:02:00during the Redress Movement, the road to legislation, and then the afterlife of the Redress Movement. So some of these we'll go through rather quickly--

Ron Yoshino: Okay.

Mary Doi: --so we can really focus on your involvement during the Redress Movement and then the road to legislation.

Ron Yoshino: Okay.

Mary Doi: Sound okay? So when did you join the JACL?

Ron Yoshino: I joined around 1971 I, I would guess. I was, I called-- Back then the JACL office was at 21 West Elm Street. I called, I think Ross Harano answered the phone. I told him I was interested in getting involved and he immediately signed me up to be on the board at that point in time.

Mary Doi: What made you interested in getting involved?

Ron Yoshino: I just wanted to be involved with the Japanese American community. At that point in time, I really never had any contact with the Japanese American community, so, it was an opportunity to get involved. And, and JACL was a national organization, and I knew of them. So I called here at the local office and met with Ross, well, I didn't meet with Ross, I talked to him and got involved. It might've been 1970 instead of 1971, but it was in that time period.

Mary Doi: Where did you live when you got involved? South side? North side? Suburbs?

Ron Yoshino: You know I... I may have been involved earlier than 1970 because I 00:04:00got married in 1970. So I got involved, I must have gotten involved back in 1968 or 1969 when I called up Ross Harano. But in any case, I got involved, and they had a group called the YJA, Young Japanese Americans. And at that point in time, I met a lot of other young people that, that were in their 20s that were involved with the JACL at that point in time. I think Ross was one of the people that was instrumental in setting up that organization, that subset of the Japanese American Citizens League.

Mary Doi: Okay. Were your parents members?

Ron Yoshino: No.

Mary Doi: Okay.

Ron Yoshino: My parents were not members.

Mary Doi: And when you joined, you mentioned that, that there was a social component, the YJA?

Ron Yoshino: Yes.

Mary Doi: Were there a lot of Sanseis involved in that? And then in the board?

Ron Yoshino: There were a lot of them involved in the social activity portion of it, and... But only a few... If there were a dozen people, maybe only two or three were involved with the board.

Mary Doi: Okay. So you mentioned that when you come on or when you joined, you got put on the board?

Ron Yoshino: Well I, you know, this is over, probably closer to over 50 years ago, and I don't remember the details, but I think that Ross wanted... They were looking for people to be involved on the board, and I think that I, I got involved and was on the board at that point in time.

Mary Doi: Okay, that's fine. And then--

Katherine Nagasawa: Do you remember who were the other Sansei on the board with you?

Ron Yoshino: You know I, I really don't remember. The only thing that I remember was that Hiroshi, I think Hiroshi Kano was the president of the chapter. And at that point in time, he was involved with a lot of social-- not social activities, but civil rights activities. And he was involved with the... The union guys, the farm workers, United Farm Workers, and he wanted to become involved in their cause. And as a result of that, we, he got the Chicago Chapter 00:07:00Board of Directors to become involved with the United Farm Workers Organization. And as a result of all of that, the Chicago-- not the Chicago Nisei, but the central California Nisei farmers were on the opposite side of that. And they got very upset that Chicago was involved with the United Farm Workers, and they sent a representative out here, and they had a long discussion at the Japanese American Service Committee, I remember. And nothing was resolved with that. They didn't convince Hiroshi Kano to not be involved with the United Farm Workers. And as a matter of fact, the 1972 JACL National Convention was held in Washington DC, and Hiroshi Kano went to Washington DC, as the representative of 00:08:00the Chicago Chapter, promoted the United Farm Workers at the convention. I don't know the details of that, 'cause I wasn't there, but I'm pretty sure they rejected the whole idea of becoming involved with the farm workers. And as a result of that, Hiroshi was not very happy. He came back to Chicago, resigned as president of the Chicago Chapter, and asked me to be president of the chapter at that point in time. So that was my early involvement with JACL.

Mary Doi: Well, that United Farm Workers story is a great one. I had no idea that there was that kind of social activism in the chapter. What about--

Ron Yoshino: Well, it was basically Hiroshi Kano.

Mary Doi: Okay. So you, yourself, were you involved in the Civil Rights Movement in the 60s or the anti-Vietnam protests in the 60s and 70s?

Ron Yoshino: No, I mean, I was not happy with the fact that everyone, all the people my age, were getting drafted and going to Vietnam and everything, and not for a reason that I thought it was worth dying over. So certainly, I was not happy with that situation, but I, I didn't get actively involved. I just, my biggest involvement was hoping that my draft number was high.

Mary Doi: Yeah, yeah. Well, the other thing that's going on in Chicago in the late 70s, and it seems to-- it seems like JACL played a major role in this is the pardoning of Iva Toguri. Do you remember anything about that?

Ron Yoshino: No, I just remember that it happened that Iva Toguri was here in Chicago, and that I remember that the Chicago Chapter got, was promoting the 00:10:00pardon for Iva Toguri. And I know that as a result of JACL's involvement, she was happy about that. And she, she donated a screen to the Chicago Chapter as a result. I don't know where the screen is right now, but I remember she donated one of those Japanese screens to the chapter as her token of appreciation for JACL's involvement in promoting her case.

Mary Doi: Right, and then I guess eventually President Ford pardons her in 1977.

Ron Yoshino: Right.

Mary Doi: So thinking about this same timeframe, we're going to move into your involvement in the Redress Movement. Did you attend the 1978 JACL Convention in Salt Lake City?

Ron Yoshino: No, I did not.

Mary Doi: So I guess that's the convention in which the idea of Redress comes up?

Ron Yoshino: Right.

Mary Doi: And when the word... When that idea comes back to Chicago, what did you think about the decision to seek Redress?

Ron Yoshino: I, I really was kind of... I didn't have very much thinking relative to all of that. I, the-- I think, basic, from my perspective, it was probably a cause that the Japanese American community could coalesce around. So, and I thought it was a good idea, but I really didn't, wasn't strongly involved in the Redress Movement or, or any of that thing prior to, to that happening. I mean, I knew what was going on. I, I thought that maybe it was something to work on, you know at that point in time. I don't think very many people ever thought 00:12:00that we were going to get a pardon or any, any redress or reparations, or anything else like that. But I mean it was, I think it was a good thing for the community and a good thing for JACL to become involved and coalesce around an idea like that.

Mary Doi: So I know that I've read that in Seattle, one of the approaches that was early on was to go directly for reparations payments. Do you know if Chicago went on board with that or the, sort of like the concurrent, and maybe, I don't know, more persuasive advice of Inouye, Matsunaga, Mineta, and Bob Matsui, who suggests, no, let's do the legislative approach because we have to educate the public?

Ron Yoshino: Right. I, you know I was not involved with that. You know, I was on the chapter board at that point in time. I think John Tani might've been president around that, that time, and he was more involved in all of that, all of those issues and the Seattle's involvement, and you know, whether we were going to go with, along with Seattle for direct, was it direct reparations or whether I think NCJAR at that point in time was talking about suing the government. And, of course, as a member of the Chicago chapter and JACL, I was just kind of tagging along with whatever JACL was planning to do. And you know, at that point in time, I think John Tateishi was involved with the Redress Movement for JACL, and, and they got involved with Dan Inouye and Spark 00:14:00Matsunaga, and Norm Mineta, and with Bob Matsui at that point in time. And I believe the story is that Dan Inouye promoted the redress hearings or hearings commission. And so that's how, that's the direction that JACL went. And so that's how we got involved here in Chicago.

Mary Doi: Well I'm glad that you brought up NCJAR, the National Coalition. No, National Japanese American... No, National Coalition--

Ron Yoshino: National Coalition for Japanese American Redress, I think.

Mary Doi: That was the Bill Hohri group.

Ron Yoshino: Yes.

Mary Doi: You know so Chicago has the chapter working on the legislative route. And Bill Hohri, also Chicagoan, is working on the, sort of the judicial route through suing the government. Do you remember much about the Bill Hohri group?

Ron Yoshino: I don't know, I don't know who was involved with Bill Hohri. All I know is that at one point in time along the history, Bill Hohri and his wife came to the Chicago Chapter board meeting sometime in the, probably in the early 1980s and tried to persuade the Chicago Chapter to become involved with NCJAR and the legislative, or the route of suing the government at that point in time. And at that point in time, the Chicago Chapter said, no, we're, we're working with the National JACL, and that's the route that we're going. So as a result of that, we didn't agree to move along with Bill Hohri.

Mary Doi: So was there any friction between the JACL and the NCJAR efforts or, you know or groups?

Ron Yoshino: I think Bill Hohri was here in this office talking to us, and at the end of the discussion, when agreed to, to or we told him we were going to go along with the National JACL, I think he said something to his wife, like, "Thank you. Let's go, dear. They don't quite understand what's going on," or something to that effect, and left. So, I mean, I wouldn't say there was friction. It was, we didn't understand, or we didn't quite want to get on board with his proposal.

Mary Doi: So sort of bringing it back to the Chicago JACL Chapter, when it comes 00:17:00to, you know the earlier decision, whether you go for direct payment or you go the legislative route suggested by Inouye et al., were there any generational divides? Were the Nisei more prone to say, let's do it legislatively, and the Sansei were saying, let's go for the money. Was there anything like that?

Ron Yoshino: I don't remember much of all of that. You know, I think we were involved, but only to the extent of supporting whatever the national organization wanted to do. That's my, that's what I remember. In any case, I was really not actively involved in a lot of that at that point in time.

Mary Doi: Okay. And then I noticed that, that there is a, where did I put those 00:18:00papers? The Midwest District Redress Committee where there are representatives from each chapter, and I believe you were the Chicago representative to that group. Do you remember anything about that?

Ron Yoshino: I don't remember being the Chicago representative. I don't remember being involved with that at all.

Mary Doi: Okay, that's fine. Just thinking back on that time, was there much difference between, say, the Cleveland Chapter's stance about redress and reparations versus the Minneapolis versus the Cleveland versus the Milwaukee, all the different chapters? Was there friction at the Midwest district level or differences of opinion?

Ron Yoshino: Not that I'm aware of. I mean, the only thing that I remember was 00:19:00that Cleveland had Hank Tanaka and Toaru Ishiyama, and I think they were probably people that I kinda looked up to in terms of direction and whatever they thought I was going to follow their, their lead from my perspective. I mean, I, I respected their opinions. I think those were the two leaders in, in the Chicago or in the Midwest that, that I remember and respected, and respected their opinion.

Mary Doi: Well, another person that I know that was very involved in the Chicago Chapter, he was very involved in JACL period, and then the Chicago Chapter is Shig Wakamatsu. Do you remember much about him and was he working actively for Redress?

Ron Yoshino: You know he, he might've been involved, but I wasn't involved with 00:20:00him. I know there were other people in the, in the Chicago area that were involved. I know Art Morimitsu was involved, and... But most of the activities that I was involved in weren't directly related to what Shig Wakamatsu or Art Morimitsu were doing.

Mary Doi: That's fair. But, but when you think back on the Midwest district level, Hank Tanaka and Toaru Ishiyama are people that you valued their opinions?

Ron Yoshino: Yes.

Mary Doi: Okay, great. So do you remember at the Midwest district level if the committee would get together and have meetings?

Ron Yoshino: That, I, I don't remember anything like that at all, because really, I don't remember being involved at the district level at all.

Mary Doi: Okay. Well, we just saw your name on a roster, so--

Ron Yoshino: Oh, okay.

Mary Doi: It could, it could be that you were nominally involved, but back at 00:21:00the Chicago level, there did seem to be a Chicago Redress Committee, and you're, you're involved in that, I believe.

Ron Yoshino: Right. My involvement with the Chicago Redress Committee, well, let me back up one step. Chiye Tomihiro was, was involved with Redress, and from a Chicago Chapter point of view, I think she was probably the one person that was more actively involved than anyone that I can remember. But at the time, they decided they were going to go with the commission, and they had set up a schedule for commission hearings in Washington, I think, in Los Angeles, San Francisco, and Seattle. And Chicago. I think Chicago got, got involved to the 00:22:00extent that we wanted to make sure that the hearings here in Chicago were, were run, and we got people involved in the hearings and that type of thing. I remember I was kind of surprised that the hearings ended up at Northern... Northeastern University. I had thought they would be somewhere else you know, in some other facility, but in any case, I know they ended up at Northeastern University.

Mary Doi: NEIU.

Ron Yoshino: Northeastern Illinois University. And at that point in time, we as a chapter said, you know in order that the hearings get as many people involved as possible. I think we decided to set up a committee to see if there were 00:23:00people that were interested in getting involved in presenting their, their stories to the commission at that point in time. And I think we set up an opportunity for people to come here and practice their testimony to get it written down, to work on, on their testimony so that it wasn't a haphazard hearing or haphazard presentation to the committee at that point in time. And, and so I know we did a lot of work to, to try and make sure that the people got involved and, and put their presentations together, and had a chance to practice them.

Mary Doi: And that seems very necessary because I believe people only got five minutes to tell their story.

Ron Yoshino: Right.

Mary Doi: So you can't just have a rambler.

Ron Yoshino: Right, exactly.

Mary Doi: So I hear Chiye's name in conjunction with identifying possible people to testify as well as preparing. Do you remember anybody else that was very involved in that part of getting involved in the hearings?

Ron Yoshino: You know I don't remember much. I, somebody was telling me that Mike Ushijima was involved in the sense that he was going to videotape people, but I don't remember that off the top of my head. Somebody recently reminded me of that, and, and Mike Ushijima's father, Henry Ushijima, was a, was a film producer and... in the Chicago area. So I think he was able to get video equipment, and I think they had a chance to videotape the people so the people could see how they were, how their presentation was coming off and that type of 00:25:00thing. But I honestly don't remember videotaping people, but I, I heard that that's what, that's what had happened as a result of all of that. But I, I think we made a concerted effort to try and get as many people involved in testifying before the commission at that point in time from the Chicago area.

Mary Doi: Well, and then I also heard your name in conjunction with helping with the logistics of the actual hearing. Do you remember anything about that?

Ron Yoshino: Well, I remember we wanted to make sure that the, that the commissioners got here, got here safely, got to the hearings, and everything. I, personally, I remember at the end of one session, Arthur Goldberg had to leave and go to the airport. And I remember I drove him to the airport. I mean, that 00:26:00was one of my in-- one involvement that I had. So I got a chance to talk to him a little bit. But there wasn't anything substantive that we talked about. But in any case, in terms of, of the people that testified at the, at the hearings, there are few people that I remember and their testimony. I remember Sam Ozaki, who was a principal-- who was the principal at Taft High School. I think he was in the 442. And I, I remember one of the questions that they asked him, I think he testified on the role of the 442 in Europe. And one of the questions they asked him afterwards was, "Do you think that the 442 and the Japanese Americans were used as cannon fodder?" And his response was, "Yes, we were." So I remember 00:27:00that answer. And I remember the story of, I'm trying to think of her name. She was from Portland. She was an orphan with her two younger brothers, and she had to take care of her two younger brothers without the help of her parents. She was, I think, maybe a teenager. And she had to help them, and she was responsible for them when they, when they were evacuated. So I mean, that was kind of a pretty sad story. But Helen Murao and her husband, I think Shig Murao, was a teacher in the Chicago Public Schools. But Helen Murao's story was one 00:28:00that really was kind of a tear-jerker. Those are the stories that I remember. And the other person that I remember that testified here was Min Yasui testified, and I don't really remember Min's testimony. I, you know I know most of these people that, or all of the testimonies, are on videotape, and you can look at them online. I have not done that. But the one thing I, I remember about Min Yasui, well you know, he was one of the four Supreme Court cases, and the other, one of the other Supreme Court cases that not too many people are aware of was Mitsuye Endo. And Mitsuye Endo just lived down the street here. I remember he wanted to meet Mitsuye Endo, and I remember walking into the office 00:29:00one day and Min Yasui and Mitsuye Endo were in here talking. I mean, that was probably an historic occasion at that point in time. So at least he got to meet with her at that point in time. But in any case, that's one of the things that happened you know as a result of all that. And the other thing I remember was that some of the hearings, part of the hearings were on television. I'm not sure of the exact details of all of that, but I remember Min Yasui was a spokesman for JACL regarding the hearings at that point in time. And I remember that one evening I went home and watched the 10 o'clock news, and I saw an interview with 00:30:00Min Yasui, who was, made a very strong statement regarding redress and what happened back in 1942, and it was, it was on local television news. And off the top of my head, that's about all I remember. John Tateishi was, was here at that point in time for the hearings. And I remember at the, at the end of the day, he says, you know, "We should have gotten you to testify at the hearings." But you know I, I was never planning to do it, and I didn't testify. One of the people that testified was John Tani. I remember he testified as, as one of the younger people that testified at the hearings. You know most of the people were people 00:31:00that, that were in camp. You know John was not, John Tani was about my age at the time, or even younger than me, but he testified. There was a, a couple of younger people that testified, people that were in their 20s. And John Tani, and there was some other person from Cleveland, I think, that testified that was in their 20s. But most of the people were-

Mary Doi: John Sone?

Ron Yoshino: Tani.

Mary Doi: No, but for the Cleveland person, was that John Sone?

Ron Yoshino: No, no, it was somebody else.

Katherine Nagasawa: --was Monica Sone who also testified. I just wondered that might be the person.

Ron Yoshino: It was-- No, I don't think, it-- what was the other person? I don't, I don't recognize that name.

Mary Doi: So Monica Sone was an author.

Ron Yoshino: No.

Mary Doi: And her son was John--

Ron Yoshino: No, it was not, that was not the person that I remember as a young person that testified. John Tani and somebody else, but I, those were not the names.

Mary Doi: Okay. Well, I'm glad that you were at the, at the hearings. Did you attend both days? Do you remember?

Ron Yoshino: I think so.

Mary Doi: Okay. You know, I just want to hear it from somebody's mouth. Paint the picture of what it was like to be in the room.

Ron Yoshino: You know I, one of the things that quite surprised me was, the seats were filled. I mean it was, you might've expected that not very many people would've attended, but the room was full. Most of the chairs, I mean, I would say the, the room was, 80 to 90% of the chairs were filled. The, there was 00:33:00a dais with all of the commissioners. I think Joan Bernstein was there, and the senator from Massachusetts, Ed Brooke, was there. I guess Arthur Goldberg was there. I think Arthur or Drinan was, or-- Father Drinan was there. I'm not sure who else was there, but I mean, at that point in time, I was quite surprised that Joan Bernstein was chairperson for the committee. You know, you would've thought that Edward Brooke or Arthur Goldberg or somebody whose name you recognized might've been chairperson, but Joan Bernstein was chairperson, and I'm pretty sure she was there at the hearings.

Mary Doi: The other name that I hear is Judge Marutani.

Ron Yoshino: Bill Marutani was there also.

Mary Doi: Yeah. So you're sitting in the audience. Do you remember anything about the expression of the commissioners as they're listening to this? Were 00:34:00they bored? Were they outraged? Were they sad?

Ron Yoshino: I, I don't remember. I was more interested in, in hearing the stories of the people that, and you know quite honestly, I don't remember a lot of the stories. You know that was 40 years ago, and I don't have a recollection of, of the people that, that testified or what they testified about, but I just remember that... Oh, the only other person that I, I remember, Warner Saunders, was there. He must have been covering for one of the, the TV stations at that point in time. I think he had a Sansei wife, and, and he was, I don't remember-- I remember seeing him there. I don't know if he was there just to watch the 00:35:00hearings or if he was covering it for one of the TV stations, but I remember he was there. I mean, I have some, there are some things that stand out, and that was one of them.

Mary Doi: Right. So Warner Saunders was a newscaster, is that right?

Ron Yoshino: Yeah, he was, and I recognized him as a newscaster at that point in time.

Mary Doi: Isn't he also African American?

Ron Yoshino: Yeah.

Mary Doi: Okay so that was--

Ron Yoshino: But he passed away several years ago.

Mary Doi: So you mentioned that the room is like 80 to 90% full. Is it mainly Japanese Americans who are in the audience?

Ron Yoshino: I, I think so. I think more than 50% of the people were, maybe even two-thirds to three-quarters of the people may have been Japanese Americans, community people that, and a lot of them I probably recognized as, as being community people and people that were involved with the various Japanese 00:36:00American organizations here in Chicago.

Mary Doi: So those would be things like the churches or?

Ron Yoshino: Churches, Service Committee, JACL, the Chicago Nisei Post and the churches. Yeah. I recognized a lot of the people from those various organizations.

Mary Doi: You know one way I think about the hearings across the country is that this is one of the first times that individuals get up and tell their story. Did you have any sense of the importance of the hearing themselves to the community, to you, and not just to the commissioners?

Ron Yoshino: You know people talked about well, it was a catharsis, but I think, in some cases it was a story that people wanted to tell, and, and this was really an outlet for them to tell their stories. And so I think it was, it was 00:37:00an outlet for a lot of people to get it off their chest, get it off their mind, and, and say what they really thought and, and tell their stories.

Mary Doi: So you mentioned how sad Helen Murao's story was as the teenager responsible for her two brothers. Were there any other stories that sort of stood out like that, revelations to you that this is the range of experiences?

Ron Yoshino: I think one other story that as I sit here and think about it is Chiye Tomihiro's story. I think her story was that you know her father was a, a businessman back in, in Oregon, I think in Portland. And as a, as a result of having to, to relocate, they had, they got rid of their business. And, and when 00:38:00he came to Chicago afterwards, at that age, he was never able to, to get his feet back on the ground and start all over again. So it was a pretty sad commentary about how, how as a result of the relocation that, he lost his business and was never able to recoup from that.

Mary Doi: Great. We are well into the hour here, and I have a couple more sections to talk to you about. One of the things that I found out about the Chicago hearings was that actually the day before and the Saturday before, and the Monday before, I think Tuesday and Wednesday were the hearing dates themselves at Northeastern, but I came across this conference at NEIU With 00:39:00Liberty and Justice for Some: The Case for Compensation to Japanese Americans Imprisoned During World War II. Do you remember this conference?

Ron Yoshino: No, I don't. Okay.

Mary Doi: I guess in day one people like, I was just looking at it, people like Roger Daniels spoke, Min Yasui spoke, Bill Hohri spoke. I think those are the names that immediately stood out to me. And then the evening before the hearing starts, Arthur Goldberg gives a special address. So you don't... Okay. That must not have been a JACL organized effort.

Ron Yoshino: No, I don't think so. I don't remember that at all.

Mary Doi: Okay. So you didn't attend, obviously. You know, so the hearings happen. The commission puts out their report, Personal Justice Denied, and their 00:40:00recommendations. So now it's the road to the legislation. How do we get from the recommendations to legislation and a bill? Did the, do you remember if, at that point, the Midwest District was still meeting as a redress committee, or was the Chicago committee really active in this stage?

Ron Yoshino: I think that, yes, they were, they were actively involved in getting letters out to their, to the congressmen. You can reach a lot more congressmen here in Illinois, in Michigan, and Ohio, and that, that type of thing. So I know there was a concerted effort to get members to write letters to their congressmen and senators and, and that type of thing to promote the 00:41:00redress effort. And so I think there was a substantial letter-writing campaign to, to make sure that people were, were involved in getting their government officials involved in the Redress Movement legislation.

Mary Doi: Yeah one of the-- One of the things I've read is that the Midwest district, because it covers so many states, also had the most representatives in Congress. The West Coast is divided up into different districts, or different chapters.

Ron Yoshino: Right.

Mary Doi: So the Midwest then plays a prominent role in the sheer number of votes that we have.

Ron Yoshino: Yes. And that's why they, they promoted the letter-writing campaigns. So you know, I know that was going on, I, I can't-- and I know that 00:42:00people had form letters written up so that, so that all you had to do was sign one and send it into your congressman. But I mean I wasn't, I knew that was going on. I wasn't really actively involved in that at all.

Mary Doi: Okay. Early on, you mentioned the churches getting involved, the Japanese American organizations learning about the Redress Movement, there seemed to have been other national allies such as the labor unions and different, different sects of churches, different denominations of churches, and one of the things I read about in the Chicago Shimpo was how Art Morimitsu really worked with the Veterans group. I don't remember if it was the Veterans of Foreign Wars or the American Legion to actually get that group to support not just the, the apology, but also the reparations funding, the money. Were there other Chicagoans that stand out in your mind as really influencing national groups?

Ron Yoshino: The only other person that, that I remember off the top of my head was Chiye Tomihiro's involvement with the American Friends Service Committee, but-- and I don't really remember. I just remember that. I don't remember what her involvement was or how, how if she was successful in getting endorsements from them, but I know that she used to talk about them on, on occasion. But I think Art Morimitsu was more involved with the American Legion, the, the Chicago Nisei Post here in Chicago, and, and I think he got involved with the American Legion on a, on a national level, or certainly on a district and maybe on a 00:44:00national level, to get their support.

Mary Doi: Right and this is not-- Tsune Nakagawa's name came up. I was talking to somebody else and she said that Tsune was the assistant or a secretary to Percy, Charles Percy.

Ron Yoshino: Chuck Percy, yes.

Mary Doi: Yeah. And that she helped kind of educate him. Do you remember anybody else that might have had that kind of tie?

Ron Yoshino: Not really. Not off the top of my head.

Mary Doi: And then I listened to an interview that Ross Harano did, and he talks about how he had ties to other communities, to other groups. So for example, he mentioned David Roth with the American Jewish Committee, but he, but Ross also mentioned that he had ties to the ethnic communities in Chicago so that when he got to talk to them, they could kind of talk to other people in their 00:45:00communities across the country to gather support. Do you remember other things like that?

Ron Yoshino: I remember Ross was much more involved in that than I, than I was, and I know that he had a lot more ties to the, to the other communities, to the Jewish organizations, and that type of thing. And I know that he was much more active than I was in, in promoting people to get involved and getting their organizations involved in the Redress.

Mary Doi: You know, I think between when the report and recommendations come out in '82 till the time that the bill is actually passed, and we get the Civil Liberties Act of 1987 or '88.

Ron Yoshino: '88.

Mary Doi: '88. How did, how did the chapters keep up the momentum? You know I was just wondering, is there fatigue when you don't know when the endpoint is 00:46:00going to be reached and, and you have success?

Ron Yoshino: Yeah, you know I, I was not actively involved in all of that. I, I know that my, we had a JACL National Convention here in Chicago in 1986, and, you know which was kind of a prelude to Reagan signing it in 1988. And, and I was involved with, well, I was chairperson for the, the National Convention back in 1986. So, I mean, most of my time and activity was involved in the convention. So I wasn't really involved with a lot of this activity in terms of soliciting support from various congressmen and senators. I was more involved 00:47:00in, in the JACL Convention at that point in time.

Mary Doi: It's understandable how when you're the chair of the convention, you have so many things to be responsible for that these things might not happen. So at that convention, was there still dissent in the Japanese American community that, were there people that didn't think that we needed the financial, the, the money part of what becomes the Civil Liberties Act?

Ron Yoshino: You know I, I'm sure there was, but I was not involved in, in the politics of the organization. I was more involved in just setting up the convention and, and doing, making sure they had a place and a forum to discuss all of these issues. And so I wasn't really involved in any of the political, I, 00:48:00I know there were, there were politics involved within the JA community, and, and there were people that had differing views on how we ought to proceed and everything. And I, I know there was a lot of politics involved in that whole process. I know that at one point in time you know, John Tateishi was, was in charge of redress for JACL, and, and then at some point in time he was out. And...But I don't know the politics of all of that, but I know it happened. And I know when the, when Reagan signed the bill. I know John Tateishi wasn't involved in any of that. It was, I think, well, I'm not exactly sure. You know, Denny Yasuhara, I mean, these are some of the names that I remember was 00:49:00involved. And Harry Kajihara was president of JACL at that time, and he was the one that's in the picture with the bill signing with Reagan as president of JACL. But you know a lot of things happened during that point in time, and I was more involved in the activity of setting up a convention and doing those types of things as my support to the organization.

Mary Doi: So such, such important operational feet on the ground, making sure we've got the menu for the banquet and all the hotel rooms are up to snuff.

Ron Yoshino: Yeah.

Mary Doi: So that's good. Now we're getting into the, the last part of the interview, which is the afterlife of the Redress Movement. You know so the bill was signed, the, the law is that they're going to set up a way to pay, pay out 00:50:00the individuals who are affected. So at that time, I believe about 60,000 out of the 120,000 internees were still alive.

Ron Yoshino: Mhmm.

Mary Doi: Was Chicago very involved in disbursal?

Ron Yoshino: No. The, the only thing that I remember about... I think Bob Bratt was, was the person that was... I think various government agencies, once they allocated the money, wanted to be involved with the disbursal of the money. But the only thing that I know is that my cousin's grandmother was, was one of the people that went to Washington and received the first checks, Hisano Fujimoto. I think she was 102 years old, and--

Katherine Nagasawa: Oh, yeah, I've seen the picture of her.

Ron Yoshino: Okay. Yeah that's, yeah my cousin's grandmother. I mean, I knew her, and... But yes, I think they tried to pick some of the oldest people, and she was one of them.

Katherine Nagasawa: I think she was 101 when she received it.

Ron Yoshino: 101, well, I, I was at her 100th birthday party in 1989.

Katherine Nagasawa: Oh, my gosh.

Mary Doi: That's wonderful.

Katherine Nagasawa: I was wondering, do you remember your parents' reactions when they received their checks and the apology letter?

Ron Yoshino: Well, I think, say, it was 1990, I guess my father was; he must've been 83 years old at that point in time in 1990, and he put it in a five-year 00:52:00CD. Now, you know, who puts money in a five-year CD when you're 83 years old? I guess he expected to live a longer life. I mean, he lived till he was 90 or 91, but that's as much as I remember. He put it in a five-year, the what, $20,000 check in a five-year CD.

Mary Doi: How about your mom? That is a great story. How about your mom? Do you remember?

Ron Yoshino: I don't know. I just remember seeing the letter that they got from Reagan. That's all and reading it, but I don't remember any specific reaction. So...

Katherine Nagasawa: Do you remember if your parents closely followed what you and Bill were doing during that time? Because both of you were pretty heavily involved in the movement. Like do you remember how they felt about redress and what you were doing?

Ron Yoshino: No, actually, you know we never talked much about it with, with 00:53:00our, our parents. In fact, you know, I never learned about the camps until I was like 25 years old, and I did not learn about it from my parents. They didn't talk about it at all. So, and, and during the whole redress campaign, I never really had much conversation with them about it. They may have talked to my brother more about it, but certainly I didn't have very many conversations with them about the whole process or anything.

Mary Doi: Interesting.

Katherine Nagasawa: Do you know if they went to the hearings?

Ron Yoshino: Did they go to the hearings? No, they, they didn't. They weren't really involved in the community that much, much at all. So they let us be involved in the community, I guess. So no, they, they did not go to the hearings.

Katherine Nagasawa: Do you feel like after they received the redress check, did 00:54:00you notice anything change about their willingness to talk with you guys about what happened, or was it the same even after 1990?

Ron Yoshino: Yeah, I don't think we talked much about it before or after. So, there was not a whole lot of conversation, even when we went out to dinner with them, about this, this topic at all. You know as much as I knew is they were in Heart Mountain, Wyoming, and they came to Chicago afterwards, and that's about as much, I mean, they didn't really even talk that much about being in camp or anything at all.

Mary Doi: Where did you learn it when you were aged 25?

Ron Yoshino: I learned it from my cousin's husband. He gave me the book: "American Concentration Camps", I think it was Bosworth or-- And, and said I ought to read it. And that's where I, that's where I learned.

Mary Doi: Do you know if Bill was equally in the dark and had to learn about it from a book?

Ron Yoshino: Yeah, I, I'm not sure when Bill learned about it. You know, when I got the book American-- "America's Concentration Camps", I was about 25 years old in 1968 or '69. I mean, that's when I first really got involved. I don't think my parents ever, I don't ever remember them talking about it at all when I was a youngster or even after I was out of the house and married. I don't, I don't remember having that many conversations or any conversations. I mean--

Katherine Nagasawa: I think I heard from somebody who's close to your age, like a Sansei, who was in Ohio. He also said the same thing about his parents not 00:56:00really being that talkative about camp, but he said he learned a lot of it through the Nisei that were part of the JACL chapter he was in. Do you recall any of the older board members or, or Nisei in JACL kind of helping fill in the gaps for you? Obviously, the hearings were a big part of that because you heard all those stories that day, but are there any particular people you remember being more open about it, if you will?

Ron Yoshino: The one person that, that I know that was involved was Shig Wakamatsu. You know, he was involved in the Japanese American History pro-- project for JACL, and I think they published you know a half a dozen books on Japanese Americans and that type of thing. So I, I learned something about the 00:57:00whole episode in 1942 from just following what, what Shig Wakamatsu was doing back in the 60s, and 70s, and 80s, I think. So... You know he, he was the one that, I, I think the first book that came out of, out of that was Bill Hosokawa's book Nisei, and then there, there was a book on, there were half a dozen books that came out of the Japanese American research project that was sponsored by JACL. In fact, there's a bunch of books downstairs in the basement that, that are left over from Shig Wakamatsu's time, and actually you ought to go down there and just take, that them and take them home. They got books on the 00:58:00legal aspects of JAC--, or of the Japanese the American community, the, the ag-- their contributions to agriculture. And, and Robert, I think Robert Wilson wrote a book. And anyway, a number of people were commissioned to write books, and, and Shig was the one that followed all of that. And by being around Shig, I, I learned some of all of this stuff.

Mary Doi: Right, I remember when he was interviewed for Regener-- Or, for, yeah, Regenerations about the resettlement that he had not only been involved for a long time, but had such amazing recall.

Ron Yoshino: Okay.

Mary Doi: You know? That, that's my memory of Shig. So just to end up, I'm kind of interested in, and this is, this is a question that is sort of a more recent 00:59:00question, and especially Yonsei like my daughter are very interested in this, and it is, what does repair look like? We've, we've got the act, we've got the law signed. Was that sufficient to repair the injustice?

Ron Yoshino: I guess it was. You know, I haven't really thought about that. I mean, you know when they first started out in this whole process, I think it, it went back to the early 1970s, I think. I can't even remember his, his, name who, who got involve-- Who was the first person involved with redress. Uno, Edison 01:00:00Uno. When Edison Uno got, I think he was the first one that started talking about it in the 1970-- early 1970s. I think it was a pipe dream, and the fact that nobody ever thought that we were going to ever get redress or reparations, and the fact that, that it happened, I think people were really, really happy about, about that. I mean, surprised, happy. You know no one ever really got anything like that from the government. And so I think it's more satisfaction out of getting redress and reparations from the government more than repairing your psychological memories, and, and hurt, or whatever you, whatever happened 01:01:00as a result of being relocated. So I think there was more happiness at the success of the Redress Movement more, more than anything.

Mary Doi: That's a really good distinction to talk about the satisfaction that the community felt, the happiness that the community felt as one kind of a repair. And then you mentioned the psychological damage that might have been done. Has, has that been repaired? Is it still an ongoing thing? How do you see it manifested?

Ron Yoshino: I think probably you know the, the people that were relocated and, and maybe even, you know I know my parents were relocated, and I feel badly about all of that. So you know until maybe the next generation, I think until 01:02:00it's all behind us, it's, it's still there. Psychologically.

Mary Doi: How do you see that? How does it manifest itself that the repair has not completely happened?

Ron Yoshino: I think you feel a little isolated, or, or not part of the community, or, or you feel like you're... I'm struggling for the right words. 01:03:00The... I'm drawing a blank right now.

Mary Doi: Okay, that's fine. Kat, do you have any questions?

Katherine Nagasawa: I think you, I think you got everything. There's just one thing I wanted to share with you, Ron. I was looking through a really old 1981 copy of the Chicago JACL newsletter, and there's a shout-out to you. It was like a recap of the hearings, but the president wrote, "Redress Chairperson, Ron Yoshino, did an outstanding job organizing, planning, and following up on thousands, literally, of details. There were many people making significant contributions in the Redress effort, but Ron must take credit for putting the whole program together. I'm thoroughly impressed with the job he did." And I 01:04:00think kind of, maybe to one of Mary's earlier questions, I, I wonder, just, it just seemed like an absolute incredible amount of work and tireless effort that you put into making sure that the hearings went smoothly. What do you feel like motivated you, or what like drove you to do that and put so much, so many hours and so much time and effort into this movement?

Ron Yoshino: Well, I think it was you know, a major program of the JACL, and being a member and, and being responsible for all of that, you know I, I just wanted to make sure it got done right more than anything else. I, I can't say that there was any other ulterior motive other than the fact that it was a responsibility. It was something that I was responsible for and I just wanted to make sure it got done right. Like running a convention, you want to make sure 01:05:00that gets done right, and whatever project you're working on, it was a project. Now, you know I can't tell you that I, I was one of the people that really felt deeply about Redress and everything deep down from a motivational point of view. I, I didn't, I did it more because it was a job responsibility that I had to take care of.

Katherine Nagasawa: And you felt responsible to the Japanese American community more broadly.

Ron Yoshino: Well more, yeah more to the JACL as an organization. You know we were involved with it and spearheading the effort, so it was, I felt more, more responsible to the organization.

Katherine Nagasawa: Mhmm. And I guess more broadly then, what has it meant for you to have been involved in an organization like JACL throughout your adult life?

Ron Yoshino: Yeah, I've been involved, well, until I think the last time I was really involved was five or six years ago. I, I haven't really been involved since then, but I was involved for, for quite a long time, from late 1960s to about 2015 or 2016, I think was the last time I was really involved.

Katherine Nagasawa: Mhmm. And why do you feel like it was important to you to be involved in Japanese American community issues and, and with the organization for such a long period of time?

Ron Yoshino: You know, I, I'm more involved in the organization and what the organization has done for the Japanese American community. And, and my 01:07:00contributions have been more in terms of organiza-- you know, organizing conventions. You know I've been involved in the organization at the National Conventions as being credentials chair, just being involved, doing what I could do as, based on the skills that I have in terms of organizing and, and getting things done. And so that's you know, how I can contribute to the organization. I, I'm not really an issues person at all. I'm more of a, an organization-type person, and that's where my skills are, and that's where I've, I've tried to contribute to the organization.

Katherine Nagasawa: Thank you so much.

Mary Doi: Yeah.

Ron Yoshino: Okay.

Mary Doi: No, one more. Just wrapping it up. Is there anything else you'd like to tell us?

Ron Yoshino: I'll probably think of something after I leave, but right now I can't think of anything.

Mary Doi: Okay, you can email me.

Ron Yoshino: Okay.

Mary Doi: Thank you so much, Ron. This has been incredible.